Yes, but the principle involved applies, at least for now, to businesses as well. Schools and employers are addressed in the code itself. While nothing in the law states a business can ask for a doctor's note or other proof, nothing in the law prevents them from doing so, either. Most of what is codified for businesses is physical access. But that said, and you and I have both addressed this, is that there must be some level of disclosure in order for a person to be accomodated, otherwise how can a business make the required accomodation.
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Possible Changes coming to the Guest Assistance Cards (GAC)
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Yes, but the principle involved applies, at least for now, to businesses as well. Schools and employers are addressed in the code itself. While nothing in the law states a business can ask for a doctor's note or other proof, nothing in the law prevents them from doing so, either. Most of what is codified for businesses is physical access. But that said, and you and I have both addressed this, is that there must be some level of disclosure in order for a person to be accomodated, otherwise how can a business make the required accomodation.
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
If this were true, then wouldn't any place where you have to wait in a line have to provide a similar service? Especially other theme parks? Yet the only theme park that comes close, as far as I know, is Universal, which apparently has much greater restrictions.
RandomPrincess
Keep Moving Forward
Maybe there is some part of Irritable Bowl I'm missing but as far as I know the main symptom that would hinder you waiting in line is possibly suddenly needing to use the restroom. If that is the case all potty training and small children should be eligible to not wait in line either.
IWantMyMagicBand
Well-Known Member
"I've had 3 kids and they ruined my pelvic floor - can I get a GAC?" pmsl (literally)
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
The difference lies in the fact that those not potty trained have never known the joy of not pooping themselves...The adults with IBS may suddenly have uncontrollable rectal spasms which never you nor them want to be around when it happens.
Medication can often stop they spasms, but I'd rather not be stuck behind them in any case.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
That's been exactly my point, and my confusion with those who state otherwise, all along.
If the ADA stated businesses and government agencies had to provide priority service for those who "can't wait in line", then every major store, restaurant and DMV office in the nation would have a GAC system. They don't. Only Disney theme parks do this, from what I can tell.
And by "can't wait in line" I don't mean folks who are wheelhair-bound or using a cane or walker. I mean those who say they can't stand in the line because they or a member of their party has emotional or psychological problems with standing in a line of people for more than 5 minutes. Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Asperger's, ADHD, Autism, Severe Anxiety Disorder, etc., etc.
I always wonder how they get through the TSA lines at any major airport to get to WDW in the first place?
flynnibus
Premium Member
Nah - very different. In the work and school examples, the default is the person is expected to be present - the burden is on them to provide a valid exception to the law or policy. Where with the Ada, the customer does not have to prove an exception to be entitled to the treatment. There is no special handling - it's the default the person is entitled to.
For employment, the employer is not legally obligated to give you paid sick leave- the doctors note is to satisfy your employer's voluntary policy of paid sick leave.
For school, truancy laws a student is required to be in school, the notes are to authorize the exception to the attendance requirements.
In both cases, the note bearer is to prove an exception to the expected behavior. For the disabled, they are entitled to the behavior by law - not by exception
flynnibus
Premium Member
@TP2000 - you're really close to the Picard face palm. You continue to fail to understand the difference between what is required vs what Disney does
I'll keep it simple - Disney does more than is required. Mainly because they don't address specific disabilities individually when they should/could
I'll keep it simple - Disney does more than is required. Mainly because they don't address specific disabilities individually when they should/could
flynnibus
Premium Member
Short answer - no
They need to accommodate their disability - not provide some universal line cutting service
IWantMyMagicBand
Well-Known Member
If the ADA stated businesses and government agencies had to provide priority service for those who "can't wait in line", then every major store, restaurant and DMV office in the nation would have a GAC system. They don't. Only Disney theme parks do this, from what I can tell.
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Most theme parks in the U.K offer assistance to those who cannot queue, and have policies in place that explain the procedure. Some require pre-registration but ALL require proof.
Most of our airports have family security clearance at airports, which are bigger-width queue lines, and at Gatwick the kids go through a castle gate rather than standard detection unit.
My four year old struggles with queuing, but hasn't been statemented (officially diagnosed with a disorder), but when we visited WDW last year he loved the interactive queue at Hunnypots. I think he just gets easily bored. Are you telling me that, as it stands now, I could just take him into City Hall and say he struggles to stay calm in queues and walk out with a GAC? Also, is there a limit to the amount of people you can take with you on each ride?
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Most theme parks in the U.K offer assistance to those who cannot queue, and have policies in place that explain the procedure. Some require pre-registration but ALL require proof.
Most of our airports have family security clearance at airports, which are bigger-width queue lines, and at Gatwick the kids go through a castle gate rather than standard detection unit.
My four year old struggles with queuing, but hasn't been statemented (officially diagnosed with a disorder), but when we visited WDW last year he loved the interactive queue at Hunnypots. I think he just gets easily bored. Are you telling me that, as it stands now, I could just take him into City Hall and say he struggles to stay calm in queues and walk out with a GAC? Also, is there a limit to the amount of people you can take with you on each ride?
jaklgreen
Well-Known Member
I am with you, if the line is too long I have to get a fastpass or skip it because there is no way I can wait an hour and then ride time without having to pee my pants. I never even thought of getting a GAC. I just "go" in between every ride. Would my medical condition qualify for a GAC in anyone's eyes here since I can not wait in long lines?
TRONorail10
Active Member
I'm not going to keep posting in this thread forever, but I think people need to look at the situation from a more scaled back approach first:
If there was no GAC, and Disney World still had all other current modifications, handicap accessible queues and ride vehicles, FastPass, and other disability services like hearing devices, brail aids, etc....
Would there be any legal ramifications in regards to ADA accommodation? I'm not talking about random private lawsuits. What I want to know is would the government in its enforcement of the LAW, pursue any course of action against Disney?
The question that everyone should be asking first before any judgments are made, is this: "Is Disney ADA compliant, by law, without the GAC?"
If there was no GAC, and Disney World still had all other current modifications, handicap accessible queues and ride vehicles, FastPass, and other disability services like hearing devices, brail aids, etc....
Would there be any legal ramifications in regards to ADA accommodation? I'm not talking about random private lawsuits. What I want to know is would the government in its enforcement of the LAW, pursue any course of action against Disney?
The question that everyone should be asking first before any judgments are made, is this: "Is Disney ADA compliant, by law, without the GAC?"
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Oh, no Picard face palm is required. I completely understand that Disney goes way above and beyond what is legally required by the ADA.
Disney can cancel the GAC system tomorrow and just have people in wheelchairs wait in any line built after 1990, or send people in wheelchairs in through the exit of anything built before 1989. Anyone else is out of luck, because there's no legal requirement in the ADA that any business provide priority service to people who have psychological problems with waiting in lines. If there was such a requirement in the ADA law, every store, restaurant or government agency in America would have a formal legally-approved process to bump those with psychological issues to the front of the line. They don't.
What it sounds like Disney will be doing this fall is implementing a Cedar Fair style process of getting one priority entrance at a time, nothing more. That's legal, it's fair, and it solves the problem of the GAC being the free Golden Ticket to fun and stress-free visits to Disney theme parks without any need to hassle with Fastpass tickets or Standby lines. That will tick off a lot of folks, but it seems to be what needs to happen to fix this.
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flynnibus
Premium Member
@TRONorail10 - the only enforcement of Ada is through lawsuits. There is no criminal enforcement of Ada.
And NO for the umpteenth time - just being handicap accessible is not sufficient.
This is not a formulaic thing - people need to get that through their heads and stop trying to make it.
And NO for the umpteenth time - just being handicap accessible is not sufficient.
This is not a formulaic thing - people need to get that through their heads and stop trying to make it.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Yup. That's all you need to do. The smart Annual Passholders have been doing this for years, even if their 4 year old is nothing more than the average hyper 4 year old boy who doesn't like to be bored and occasionally kicks his sister. Like 4 year old boys have been doing for the last 10,000 years.
Say the right code word like "autistic" or "Asperger's" or "Irritable Bowel Syndrome" and the smiling hostess at Guest Relations hands you a pass good for the rest of your vacation for up to six people. You don't have to bother with Fastpass or any Standby lines. So long as you get the pass with the arrow stamp or the green traffic light stamp, you just show the pass to the CM in front of the ride and they send you into the Fastpass lane immediately or direct you to the exit for boarding as quickly as operationally possible. No questions asked. It's called a Guest Assitance Card, or GAC for short. And it's free, with no paperwork or proof required, you just have to know how to say the right code words to the 12 dollar an hour Guest Relations hostess who has the GACs in the drawer at her counter.
jaklgreen
Well-Known Member
This is straight from the ADA website. Disney is bound by this.
The ADA prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in employment, State and local government, public accommodations, commercial facilities, transportation, and telecommunications. It also applies to the United States Congress.
Congress.
To be protected by the ADA, one must have a disability or have a relationship or association with an individual with a disability. An individual with a disability is defined by the ADA as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, a person who has a history or record of such an impairment, or a person who is perceived by others as having such an impairment. The ADA does not specifically name all of the impairments that are covered.
"Public accommodations must comply with basic nondiscrimination requirements that prohibit exclusion, segregation, and unequal treatment. They also must comply with specific requirements related to architectural standards for new and altered buildings; reasonable modifications to policies, practices, and procedures; effective communication with people with hearing, vision, or speech disabilities; and other access requirements. Additionally, public accommodations must remove barriers in existing buildings where it is easy to do so without much difficulty or expense, given the public accommodation's resources."
Note the "without much difficulty or expense". I can easily see Disney, or any company, saying that it would just cost too much to accommodate every single type of disability. The ADA main focus throughout is for the disabled not to be discriminate against. I think Disney had done a pretty good job of updating the lines to make them wheelchair accessible considering most of the rides where made before the laws came out. That handles the physically impaired but I think the main focus is the mentally impaired. That is a much broader issue and very individual. The question being is what Disney providing a "reasonable" accommodation for those with mental issues so that they are not discriminated against. I think the laws are too vague considering all of the newer diagnosis of what qualifies as a disability now. Heck obesity is now a disability, should Disney get all new chairs so every ones butt fits on it? When these were drawn up, autism was almost non existent And those with other mental issues like anxiety, I truly do not think the law makers were thinking of what kind of modification should an amusement park make. I am sure their main concern were that disabled people were able do for themselves and earn a living and go to the grocery store etc.
The ADA prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in employment, State and local government, public accommodations, commercial facilities, transportation, and telecommunications. It also applies to the United States Congress.
Congress.
To be protected by the ADA, one must have a disability or have a relationship or association with an individual with a disability. An individual with a disability is defined by the ADA as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, a person who has a history or record of such an impairment, or a person who is perceived by others as having such an impairment. The ADA does not specifically name all of the impairments that are covered.
"Public accommodations must comply with basic nondiscrimination requirements that prohibit exclusion, segregation, and unequal treatment. They also must comply with specific requirements related to architectural standards for new and altered buildings; reasonable modifications to policies, practices, and procedures; effective communication with people with hearing, vision, or speech disabilities; and other access requirements. Additionally, public accommodations must remove barriers in existing buildings where it is easy to do so without much difficulty or expense, given the public accommodation's resources."
Note the "without much difficulty or expense". I can easily see Disney, or any company, saying that it would just cost too much to accommodate every single type of disability. The ADA main focus throughout is for the disabled not to be discriminate against. I think Disney had done a pretty good job of updating the lines to make them wheelchair accessible considering most of the rides where made before the laws came out. That handles the physically impaired but I think the main focus is the mentally impaired. That is a much broader issue and very individual. The question being is what Disney providing a "reasonable" accommodation for those with mental issues so that they are not discriminated against. I think the laws are too vague considering all of the newer diagnosis of what qualifies as a disability now. Heck obesity is now a disability, should Disney get all new chairs so every ones butt fits on it? When these were drawn up, autism was almost non existent And those with other mental issues like anxiety, I truly do not think the law makers were thinking of what kind of modification should an amusement park make. I am sure their main concern were that disabled people were able do for themselves and earn a living and go to the grocery store etc.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Particularly for the California parks, this is the HUGE elephant in the room. Annual Passholders by the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, have GAC passes that they use to bypass lines or hassle with the Fastpass system when visiting the parks.
When Disney yanks their GAC away and replaces it with a system that removes all the benefits of having one, I can easily imagine that many will stop buying APs for their families. For months however, I'm sure lots of them will raise holy heck with the poor Guest Relations kids working the counter for 12 bucks an hour. May God watch over those CM's threatened souls this fall when that change happens.
Last weekend I was waiting in line at the DCA entrance. A family of four bounded up in front of me and assembled their two kids, and they looked to be the picture of happy 21st century health, although the parents could stand to lose 25 pounds like most modern Americans. The dad struggled with his wallet and was getting out the family APs, and in his wallet he also had a GAC which he dutifully tucked away at the turnstile. And behind me was a similar healthy family who rushed across the Esplanade at a fast clip, but older and with kids in their teens. The mom had a lanyard on with a plastic pouch holding her APs and her.... yup, her GAC pass stamped with the number 5 good for the whole family. A busy summer day, three sets of us APs waiting in line to enter DCA. And I'm the middle AP between two healthy chubby families who both had handicapped passes that let them bypass every Standby line in the park, or go in through the exit of any non-Fastpass ride that dares ask them to wait 5 minutes or more.
It's going to be absolute h-e-double-hockey-sticks for the CM's when Disney finally rips this long festering GAC bandaid off this fall. I suspect it will be at its worst with the entitled AP class in Southern California. But it's going to be very bad at WDW also.
How did Disney ever let it get this bad? How was the management of the parks this horribly negligent for so long? What the heck are they spending all their time on in the TDO and TDA office buildings?!?
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
Its laughable that they didn't think handing out a ticket that entitles a holder and their party to unlimited Fastpass line usage that can be obtained merely by a simple lie wouldn't blow up in their faces. And the situation you described is extremely common.How did Disney ever let it get this bad? How was the management of the parks this horribly negligent for so long? What the heck are they spending all their time on in the TDO and TDA office buildings?!?
Everyone, for the time being, please pay attention to what other people around you in a Fastpass line actually have. GACs, GACs, GACs.
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