Possible Changes coming to the Guest Assistance Cards (GAC)

[TRONorail10]

Apples and oranges [again].

A local business doesn't provide "FastPass" for people who can't wait in line because for the most part, people have coping mechanisms in place at home to deal with issues. A parent can leave an autistic child with another family member or a caregiver while they shop. Going to WDW, the whole point is to spend the time with your family and enjoy the attractions together.

As for providing medical documentation to "prove" your disability, there are two significant issues with that: First, the poor CM in Guest Relations is in no way qualified to read and understand a medical diagnosis or determine what would be an appropriate accommodation for it, and second, there are legitimate privacy issues regarding disclosure of personal medical information that are protected by your Constitution and the ADA. I know pesky "Laws" tend to get in the way of the self-righteous indignation of the majority of arrogant and inconsiderate posters in this thread who clearly know better than their Government or a major multinational conglomerate that has been dealing with these issues for decades...

You clearly missed the whole point of my post. GAC is a voluntary service not required by Disney, therefore an individual who chooses to participate can voluntarily disclose medical information in the form a doctor's note. I never said a CM is qualified to read medical diagnosis. I think they should have a qualified medical person on staff at every park since this is such a big issue. Also, why does everyone think this issue so much more different than a school requiring a doctor's note for a sick child to miss class, or a corporation requiring a doctor's note for modified work due to disability? It's not like this doesn't take place everyday all around us.

I'm currently not disabled. I used to be years ago and confined to a wheelchair for over a year. I can walk perfectly fine, I don't exhibit any abnormal behaviors, and I can conduct myself in a positive manner in public. However, if I walked into the Magic Kingdom tomorrow morning and told them my back hurts and that I wanted a GAC, per their own policy, not a law or policy enforced by the government, they would issue me the GAC card that was developed by Disney, for Disney to "accommodate" my pain and suffering so that I would have a magical day. Don't you think that if I walked around with a freebee card saying I was disabled, that I might actually offend those who are indeed disabled? If I were actually disabled and saw what kind of abuse people were doing to the system, I would have no problem voluntarily providing a doctor's note for the voluntary service Disney is providing to ensure that no other individuals take advantage of it.

 

[flynnibus]

Apples and oranges [again].

A local business doesn't provide "FastPass" for people who can't wait in line because for the most part, people have coping mechanisms in place at home to deal with issues. A parent can leave an autistic child with another family member or a caregiver while they shop. Going to WDW, the whole point is to spend the time with your family and enjoy the attractions together.

Not really... if you went somewhere and the accommodation provided was the suggestion to 'leave your kid at home' - well the business would be screwed Does the difference make it harder or easier for a person to AVOID the situation.. yes.. but it doesn't the law or rules any different. There is established precedent and statute that you should include the traveling party with the disabled person.. even tho the original act doesn't call that out.

As for providing medical documentation to "prove" your disability, there are two significant issues with that: First, the poor CM in Guest Relations is in no way qualified to read and understand a medical diagnosis or determine what would be an appropriate accommodation for it, and second, there are legitimate privacy issues regarding disclosure of personal medical information that are protected by your Constitution and the ADA

Correct on the first part.. you don't want employees playing doctor
But bunkus on the second part.. the privacy stuff is overblown and misapplied

 

[flynnibus]

Also, why does everyone think this issue so much more different than a school requiring a doctor's note for a sick child to miss class, or a corporation requiring a doctor's note for modified work due to disability? It's not like this doesn't take place everyday all around us.

Because legally - they are different.

 

[natatomic]

If that's the solution Disney give me when I go then I'll take it. I don't believe I should be waltzed on the ride, if they gave me a time to go back, I would, and while waiting (if I had long enough), I would ride an attraction in an indoor queue or get food etc.
I'll take whatever solution a park can offer me, I'm not going to complain if I need to wait "out of queue" as it provides the solution I need. In fact, I think it would be a good idea if my Magicband (when it's implemented), has a GAC attached and I just access the fastpass system for every ride.
At LEGOLAND, instead of the Ride Access Pass, they could offer me a QBot for free, which is a system that "books" you into the queue according to the current wait time.

Okay, you sounded reasonable in your post (and the previous one) until the last two sentences, which I bolded. So in the first situation, you still want unlimited access to the fastpass line for every ride (which is what we've just spent the last 65 pages explaining the problem is with the current system); and in the second, you want the park to give you something for free, which everyone else has to pay a hefty price tag for. Extreme benefits like that are what's causing the abuse!

 

[natatomic]

One solution I considered when I sprained my ankle before our last trip (ironically, while going for a walk to increase my stamina when I turned my foot on a bit of uneven lawn on the way to the school track) was to bring a folding cane chair. Does anyone know if disney has any policies against using those devices while waiting in line?

As a previous poster replied, Disney does not allow folding chairs, BUT the types that are attached to canes ARE allowed because the cane cannot legally be turned away (per the ADA). I've seen plenty in the parks, myself.

 

[Monty]

But bunkus on the second part.. the privacy stuff is overblown and misapplied

I disagree, requesting disclosure of the limitations resulting from a specific diagnosis is perfectly reasonable. Expecting people to disclose specifics of their individual diagnoses is a privacy issue.

 

[flynnibus]

I disagree, requesting disclosure of the limitations resulting from a specific diagnosis is perfectly reasonable. Expecting people to disclose specifics of their individual diagnoses is a privacy issue.

'Issue' is not the same thing as illegal or forbidden tho. The constitution doesn't protect anyone's medical information here from private businesses.. nor does the ADA deal with privacy. The relevancy in the ADA for places of public accommodation is that the disabled are not supposed to be burdened - and that includes requiring documentation not necessary for non-disabled people (with special exceptions for safety).

For the ADA - it's about discrimination and burden - not privacy.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Its infuriating how this thread keeps going in circles. Oh well, at least it seems like Disney is responding, finally.

 

[IWantMyMagicBand]

Okay, you sounded reasonable in your post (and the previous one) until the last two sentences, which I bolded. So in the first situation, you still want unlimited access to the fastpass line for every ride (which is what we've just spent the last 65 pages explaining the problem is with the current system); and in the second, you want the park to give you something for free, which everyone else has to pay a hefty price tag for. Extreme benefits like that are what's causing the abuse!

Flynnibus asked me why I just couldn't wait out of the sun instead of bypassing the queue.
How I meant to answer was that I don't mind how I get on the ride so long as I do not have to queue without shade.
An unlimited fastpass at WDW would mean I would still have a wait as would a Qbot at Legoland (and last time I went to Legoland (2 weeks ago) the average queue was over an hour. The park was open 10 - 7. Qbot would have given me about 7-8 rides plus I could have walked on 2. With my Ride Access Pass I had 10 walk-ons plus 3 walk-ons)
And I do feel bad not waiting at all. At least if I did wait and presented with a fastpass, or equivalent, I could avoid the scolding looks. Though on Thursday I suspect they will think I am famous at Legoland as I'll be wearing my #kerriontelly tshirt AND bypassing queues.

 

[Monty]

'Issue' is not the same thing as illegal or forbidden tho. The constitution doesn't protect anyone's medical information here from private businesses.. nor does the ADA deal with privacy. The relevancy in the ADA for places of public accommodation is that the disabled are not supposed to be burdened - and that includes requiring documentation not necessary for non-disabled people (with special exceptions for safety).

For the ADA - it's about discrimination and burden - not privacy.

I think we're vehemently agreeing...

I interpret the bolded part as saying that Disney can require proof of limitations, which would be necessary for them to provide accommodations, but not diagnoses, which are not required by a non-disabled person.

 

[flynnibus]

I interpret the bolded part as saying that Disney can require proof of limitations, which would be necessary for them to provide accommodations, but not diagnoses, which are not required by a non-disabled person.

They (the place of public accommodation) can't require proof either. That dances on the edge of putting burden on the disabled and therefore 'discrimination'. The point of the law is to accommodation - not challenge, then accommodate. They can only require proof when it comes to some of the exceptions around safety (operating powered vehicles, etc).

Again.. the principle is that the disabled should not have to go through extra hoops or be discriminated against to have equal access.

The fact this leaves it open for people to 'fake it', was not the concern of the law when it comes to places of public accommodation.

 

[Timekeeper]

What we need to remember is that not all disabilities are created equal, and thus access will never truly be equal. "Equal access" is simply a man-made fiction.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

I don't get why this conversation is still happening. 3/4 of the reason that the change is being driven behind this is not because of the GAC abuse directly so much as that GAC abuse has caused artificially inflated FastPass lines and therefore Standby waits which is getting so out of control that guests are spending more time on the whole in lines and less out in the park spending money. Since they want to keep FP+ as accurate as possible (and flowing efficiently as possible) they can't have all these so called "ghost riders" messing with their strict ratios. The abuse being broadcast over national news was just a convenient excuse to overhaul the system.

It's happening, whether anyone likes it or not, and the likelihood of it ever going back to the way it is now is slim to none. Some people just won't let this thing die. And quite frankly if it makes you take your business elsewhere I doubt Disney really cares at this point.

I'd actually be very interested to see a study on how such a change affects Annual Passholder numbers and overall daily attendance when they take away the golden ticket of an alternate entrance GAC.

 

[luv]

The Cm wouldn't have to. My Doctor's letter clearly states my diagnosis and also the provisions to be made.

I have no idea about laws in the USA but here, in the U.K, you have to prove you are entitled to a privilege or you don't get it. If you live in the U.K and don't like you have to prove you need assistance then call yourself a Whaaaaambulance as it's the only help you'll get.

At Disney, all you have to do is walk in and tell them what your problem is and you get the pass. No notes, no proof, no nothing. You don't need anything and they really don't even want to look at anything.

While waiting for an AP replacement, I saw a woman go up, say she couldn't wait in line due to Irritable Bowel Syndrome and receive her pass. The next person said she had, and I quote, "weak ankles" and they started getting the pass. I have no idea what doesn't qualify. Maybe - maybe! - if you said, "There is nothing wrong with me; I just need it," they'd decline the request. But it might be handed out, even so.

 

[IWantMyMagicBand]

Since they want to keep FP+ as accurate as possible (and flowing efficiently as possible) they can't have all these so called "ghost riders" messing with their strict ratios.

OK, talking specifically about people who plan trips to WDW in advance this model could work:
1. I book my tickets to WDW and contact Guest Services about special requirements for my trip, one of which includes my request for a GAC.
2. I am sent a guide similar to this: http://www.chessington.com/plan-your-trip/disabled-guide.aspx and I complete my pre-registration for the GAC.
3. MyDisneyExperience booking details are updated to reflect my need for a GAC and allows, say, 10 rides to book from. *my needs being requires shade.
4. Upon check-in at my resort hotel I present the documentation required to obtain my magicband.
or
I am sent standard tickets that can be switched for my preloaded magicband upon presentation of documentation at Guest Services.

Or something similar. This way would reduce the "on the day" ghost riders.

 

[IWantMyMagicBand]

At Disney, all you have to do is walk in and tell them what your problem is and you get the pass. No notes, no proof, no nothing. You don't need anything and they really don't even want to look at anything.

While waiting for an AP replacement, I saw a woman go up, say she couldn't wait in line due to Irritable Bowel Syndrome and receive her pass. The next person said she had, and I quote, "weak ankles" and they started getting the pass. I have no idea what doesn't qualify. Maybe - maybe! - if you said, "There is nothing wrong with me; I just need it," they'd decline the request. But it might be handed out, even so.

I'm actually open-mouthed right now. That's disgusting! Let's hope those guests never have to take a trip to a U.K theme park! We definitely can say No over here!

 

[fosse76]

Actually you are incorrect. From a criminality point of view anyone who lies or misrepresents themselves to gain a benefit (a shortened line) is likely guilty of theft.

Ummm yeah, that's not at all true. There is no monetary value for standing in line at WDW, so it is not theft. There must be a monetary value assigned to the service. That said, diasbility fraud only applies to government services and insurance claims.

There is an economic benefit to waiting in a shortened line which is easily calculable. A simple calculation would be how many rides a person is able to go on during a typical day without a GAC versus with a GAC. The admission price divided by the number of rides gives you a baseline expectation of what the consumer is paying per attraction. There is also a quality argument to be made as well, that the experience when not having to wait in long lines carries a higher value.

That cannot at all be quantified due to a significant number of factors. All rides and attractions are included with admission, so a monetary value cannot be easily assigned to the rides or attractions.

Also remember a GAC is essentially a contract and governed by contract law. The person who fakes a disability is guilty of misrepresentation. And with all the crazy blue laws out there I'm willing to be it's illegal to lie about a disability.

Nope. GAC falls under the ADA, not contract law. And yes, faking a disability does make one guilty of misrepresentation. However, unless that misrepresentation is used to receive government or insurance benefits, it is not criminal.

 

[luv]

I'm actually open-mouthed right now. That's disgusting! Let's hope those guests never have to take a trip to a U.K theme park! We definitely can say No over here!

I just wanted to drive home the point that you don't have to bother gathering proof you don't need. At least not as it is now. If it changes (which I doubt), the boards will explode with all the posting about it.

 

[fosse76]

Apples and oranges [again].

A local business doesn't provide "FastPass" for people who can't wait in line because for the most part, people have coping mechanisms in place at home to deal with issues. A parent can leave an autistic child with another family member or a caregiver while they shop. Going to WDW, the whole point is to spend the time with your family and enjoy the attractions together.

A line is a line, though. The ADA, at least currently, doesn't differentiate between a line leading up to a roller coaster or a line leading up to a cash register. I think the point is, if you can manage a long line at Target, why can't you manage a line at WDW?

As for providing medical documentation to "prove" your disability, there are two significant issues with that: First, the poor CM in Guest Relations is in no way qualified to read and understand a medical diagnosis or determine what would be an appropriate accommodation for it, and second, there are legitimate privacy issues regarding disclosure of personal medical information that are protected by your Constitution and the ADA. I know pesky "Laws" tend to get in the way of the self-righteous indignation of the majority of arrogant and inconsiderate posters in this thread who clearly know better than their Government or a major multinational conglomerate that has been dealing with these issues for decades...

I really wish people would stop saying that, because it isn't at all true. The ADA does not address privacy, HIPPA does, and even them it only prevents the disclosure of medical information by third parties. While you most certainly don't have to answer questions from Disney such as "what is wrong with you?", they also don't have to provide accomodations if you don't describe what your limitations are. The reason Disney (and other businesses) don't generally ask for documentation/proof of disability is because if you don't provide the proof, and they deny you the accomodation, they've opened themselves up to a lawsuit (where, by the way, you would have to prove your disability in open court).

 

[Kittencheshire]

Quite interesting. I see from your profile you are in Orange County, California, so your point of reference is visiting Disneyland and DCA. There are some truly fabulous vistas to draw in the parks, and I'm sure Cars Land and Buena Vista Street just opened up a great many new inspirations in the past year.

How do you do while waiting in lines for getting on the trams on busy days? Or do you just walk from the parking structure? But what about the lines to get into the parks on busy days? The Esplanade between the two parks can be like Grand Central Station at rush hour.

And what about the line at City Hall to get your GAC? A few months ago I waited in line at City Hall to get a birthday button for a friend, and the lines were long and everyone was wanting to get their GAC. I didn't see anyone in City Hall besides CM's who weren't there for a GAC, and the lobby was noisy with crowds of people huddled around the counter all giving the CM's their info for their latest GAC. The place was a zoo, had long lines out the door, and it was all because they were people who said they couldn't wait in lines. How does one who has SAD enter a busy theme park and wait in line to get the GAC in the first place?

I walk from the tram
The line at both city halls are usually only one or two people twards the time i show up at the park at around 3-4 ish

I tend to go during times of the year when it isnt tht crowded at the park January-April

September - october

I dont go on rides at all during May-August Novemeber-December