Possible Changes coming to the Guest Assistance Cards (GAC)

[flynnibus]

And I wonder how that conversation would go between the Target manager and the parent? I can't imagine there is any grocery store or restaurant in the country that has established priority service options for those who can't wait in line due to a non-apparent disability.

The conversation would be something like... 'ok, let me take you over here' - and they would just deal with it right then and there. The difference is they offer accomodations on demand based on what your need is. It's done adlib based on what a person's needs are. Don't you notice all those signs that say 'if you need shopper assistance, please goto customer service' or the button at a gas station saying 'if you need assistance, please press the button', etc. It's done everywhere. The difference is at Disney, the potential 'gain' if you abuse the system is higher, and Disney has streamlined the system making it extremely accessible. That's the gas and the spark.. just sitting there waiting to be abused.

If the ADA mandates that priority service accommodations be made for those who can't wait in lines, how come no one has ever tried suing a store or restaurant or government agency that makes their patrons wait for service?

Because 'no wait' isn't the accomodation that everyone needs - it's simply the accomodation that Disney offers. Instead of accomodating the specific disability, Disney has these blanket solutions. Like I said before, the problem is how Disney handles it.. they don't cater accomodations to a person's disabilities.. but instead use the alt entrance as a catch all.

My hunch is that the ADA makes no such claim and Disney doesn't have to offer anything more than a wheelchair accessible queue

And your hunch is wrong.

Here's an example... if your disability is you can not stand or wait in the sun.. a reasonable accommodation would be to offer a seating area in the shade while you wait. Disney instead would offer a FP. Take that line of thinking and expand upon it and you can see how in Disney's efforts to streamline they have exaggerated the potential for abuse.

 

[asianway]

Todays Micechat note:

Editor’s Note:

• July 29, 2013: GAC Attack: The bi-coastal work to reinvent the GAC disabled access system continues at a frantic pace, and now all sorts of trendy executives want to be seen helping with it after the desperate pleas for help from park operations teams went unanswered for years. But the system that will replace the current GAC has become so much bigger that a lot of new equipment and staffing is needed. Because of that the implementation date has now been pushed back from August until October, after the new fiscal year starts and more money can be allocated. As we told you in our last MiceAge Update, big changes are on the way for disabled guests at both WDW and Disneyland. | We have three new articles for you today. Have a great week everyone!

 

[luv]

I think they should get The Law involved. Make it illegal to fake a disability in order to profit or gain.

Then require doctor's notes and ID - make copies.

Then check up on some of those notes. Verify that the doctors exist and ask them if they wrote the note. Prosecute anyone who has lied.

That would stop the abuse. They wouldn't even have to verify all of them. Just some.

It would stop people from having to line up at Guest Services every morning and would allow people to handle this before they arrived, if they wanted to do that.

 

[TP2000]

Todays Micechat note:

Editor’s Note:

• July 29, 2013: GAC Attack: The bi-coastal work to reinvent the GAC disabled access system continues at a frantic pace, and now all sorts of trendy executives want to be seen helping with it after the desperate pleas for help from park operations teams went unanswered for years. But the system that will replace the current GAC has become so much bigger that a lot of new equipment and staffing is needed. Because of that the implementation date has now been pushed back from August until October, after the new fiscal year starts and more money can be allocated. As we told you in our last MiceAge Update, big changes are on the way for disabled guests at both WDW and Disneyland.

Well, this just keeps getting more interesting.

 

[TRONorail10]

I'm all in favor of a doctor's note explaining why you can't stand or sit in a wheelchair in line. This will help narrow down the GAC to guests who physically need it because now a doctor will clearly define what their limitations are. Just like "luv" mentioned earlier, now Disney can keep a paper trail on disabled guests, so that if there are discrepancies or fraud suspected, it will be easier to pursue criminal charges.

I applaud Disney for all of their efforts towards guests with disabilities, but the bottom line is that the system is too vague and has too many flaws. It needs to be revised to ensure fairness for those in real need of assistance in the parks.

 

[Victor Kelly]

I am extremely hurt that you called my post "trollish". I was just trying to bring my own unique perspective to this conversation. If you read the entire thread, which I have, many not all but many, posters have said their disabled loved ones and they themselves could handle a shorter wait in the standby line.

The fact is we are all nuts to spend hours in line for these rides, and i speak as someone who enjoys them very much!

I will also point out that on our last visit in Jan 2010, I was using a cane due to a sprained ankle. I did not use a GAC, I didn't know such a thing existed, and no cast member ever suggested it might alleviate any of my suffering. And guess what? It was still a great trip!

Disney could do more to increase capacity and reduce wait times by not shutting down one side of a ride when crowds drop, and by adding more quality attractions to distribute the crowds. However, they have chosen to spend their money on DVCs, retail and restaurants. That's their choice, and their right. I am only pointing out the facts.

And by the way, thanks to the fact that hurricane sandy destroyed my home and my home office, leaving me with zero income, I won't be clogging up your lines any time soon.

Finally, I suggest everyone stop saying hurtful personal things on this thread. It isn't nice, and doesn't solve anything.

Um you are calling all of us nuts. That can be viewed as hurtful and personal. Who cares if you went through Sandy, milions did. Why are you bringing it up, for a pity party? I have been reading the entire thread, and have posted in it several times. If you or others want a shorter line go in the off season, like many of us do. I am disgusted with the "me" people who think that everything should be catered to them, any time, every time.

I am not sorry if you are offended. Maybe grow a thicker skin, because once you post you have to be ready for the counter posts, and they are not always sunshine and rainbows. If you don't like what Disney is doing, then feel free to say it. But by calling us nuts, you are the one hurling insults at a fan community.If you want to take it personally, go right ahead. There are many people in the world that wear their hearts on their sleeves. But us grown ups that have thick skin will keep on moving on.

 

[Wikkler]

As you might have discovered, we are all jerks.

 

[TP2000]

The conversation would be something like... 'ok, let me take you over here' - and they would just deal with it right then and there. The difference is they offer accomodations on demand based on what your need is. It's done adlib based on what a person's needs are. Don't you notice all those signs that say 'if you need shopper assistance, please goto customer service' or the button at a gas station saying 'if you need assistance, please press the button', etc. It's done everywhere. The difference is at Disney, the potential 'gain' if you abuse the system is higher, and Disney has streamlined the system making it extremely accessible. That's the gas and the spark.. just sitting there waiting to be abused.
.

But those examples aren't for people who "can't wait in line". They are for people with physical limitations that prevent them from pumping their own gas, or maneuvering over a 1950's curb to a 1970's ticket window placed four feet high, etc.

Gas stations in particular, once Full Serve options practically disappeared in the 1980's, have to offer physical assistance to disabled folks who physically can't pump their own gas.

A scan of the Target website found nothing on this topic, and I am enjoying a lazy summer morning watching the hummingbirds, so I just called my big local Target in Villa Park, CA and asked to speak with a manager...

I waited on hold for three minutes and then got a very perky lady on the line who called herself a "guest service leader". I told her that I wasn't asking this question for myself, but that it came up this weekend at a dinner party (a white lie to speed the conversation) and we wanted to know if Target had any ability to help people who can't wait in line with priority service. I had to ask the question twice because she was so baffled by it, and on the second time through I referenced the disabled passes they have at Disneyland, which is when she finally clued in what I was talking about. She kept wanting to mention the free electric shopping carts they have for disabled shoppers. I finally got her to admit that if someone flagged her down at the customer service desk with a cart full of items and said "My son is disabled and can't wait in line, can you check me out faster so I don't have to wait in line at the registers?" there would be no established process for priority service ahead of other customers and she would instead direct that person to a lane with the shortest visible line. She giggled through the entire conversation, and I did admit to her that it was a funny thing. She offered to give me the number for "corporate" to talk about their wheelchair accessibility programs, but I declined as I'm sure all Target stores are in compliance with ADA and zoning laws at new or grandfathered stores.

But if I walk in to Target in Villa Park, California (a big corporate retailer in a rather affluent neighborhood in a large metro area) and ask for priority service ahead of other shoppers because "I can not wait in line", there would be no priority service offered to me aside from telling me to find the shortest checkout line I could. Target Corporation has no established process for helping people who identify as not being able to wait in line, and their management would nicely tell such a person to figure it out themselves or go get the electric shopping cart if they want to sit down.

Which is pretty much what I figured. Maybe WalMart has Fastpass?

 

[CRO-Magnum]

Essentially the issue here is theft; the abusers are stealing a service. Here is the solution I would pursue:
1. Create a consortium of theme parks, museums, parks, and other businesses where accommodation of the disabled beyond ADA is desired
2. Identify which ICD 10 diagnoses qualify for disabled accommodation
3. Create a national opt-in database with access limited to Doctors via the Web whereby a Doctor submits a patient for accommodation The ICD 10 diagnoses would correspond to automatic timeouts which would happen within the period specified by the Doctor.
4. Request a photo (required yearly) from each accommodated person
5. Distribute a unique ID number to each accommodated person
6. Provide a web based service for validating an accommodated person's unique ID
7. Associate the unique ID with a person's electronic ticket at the time of issuance including any timeouts and add a bio-metric scan
8. Scan the ticket and the bio-metric to validate (or do a facial recognition in an automated fashion)
9. Reserve the right to limit service due to attendance and attraction availability (and use an automated algorithm to prevent discrimination)

The benefits of this approach are:
1. Make access uniform and ubiquitous
2. Keeps medical information private (having worked at WDW I can attest often those who are not visibly disabled are often queried as to their issue). Any person without a unique ID would be refused accommodation to prevent the sharing of private medical information.
3. Puts Doctors into the mix putting a legal onus on them for honesty
4. Enables the consortium to identify scams and question the legitimacy of claims by Doctors whose diagnoses are repeatedly questioned
5. Puts every person on an equal footing

 

[flynnibus]

But those examples aren't for people who "can't wait in line". They are for people with physical limitations that prevent them from pumping their own gas, or maneuvering over a 1950's curb to a 1970's ticket window placed four feet high, etc.

No, it's more than that. If you can't reach the top shelf, or can't push the cart yourself, or can't handle the materials, etc. This is the 'doorway' to get assistance for whatever disability you may have. The problem is you keep thinking this from the Disney angle and what people do at Disney.

In the real world, people don't claim a disability of 'I can't wait in line' - that's why your whole call to Target story is confusing for them. No one does that - they come with disabilities like being unable to stand, carry things, read things, dealing with crowds, spaces, etc. The SOLUTION may be to get them to a shorter line... but the DISABILITY they come in announcing is not 'I can't wait in line'.

Even at Disney.. if you said "I can't wait in line" - they'd know you are just gunning for a GAC and don't need it. "I can't wait in line" is not a disability. You may have disabilities that may cause you not to be able to stand in a line, but THOSE are your disabilities.. not "I can't wait in line".

Disney gives out the 'skip the line' solution -- most other places don't because it's not necessary in their environments. It's hard to argue you can't be bothered to stand still for the 3minutes it takes to checkout at your Target. It's a lot easier to find excuses why you can't stand still for the 30-40mins in a Disney queue.

I finally got her to admit that if someone flagged her down at the customer service desk with a cart full of items and said "My son is disabled and can't wait in line, can you check me out faster so I don't have to wait in line at the registers?" there would be no established process for priority service ahead of other customers and she would instead direct that person to a lane with the shortest visible line

Because again.. the question is posed all wrong. You are saying what accommodation you want.. and not what you are encumbered by.

The law dictates you must provide accommodation for their disability - not that you must give the accommodation the customer demands. The customer must quantify what they are encumbered or unable to do so the business can respond accordingly.

This applies at Disney as well. If you just go into GR and say 'I need a front of the line pass because I can't wait in line' - you aren't going to get a GAC that gets you the alt entrance. The staff know at that point you're just trying to game the system.

Your flaw is you keep thinking the way Disney solves it is the way everyone needs to.. and since they don't, it's all bunkus. No, the only part that is bunkus is Disney's lazy approach to the problem and trying to answer lots of accommodations with a single solution instead of providing targeted accomodations.

 

[Hoopie316]

I am in line right now and they are turning people away with the GAC card. They are providing wheel chairs in line so that people can sit! They are asking that people get fast passes! No more people getting all the time fast passes!!

 

[PirateFrank]

I am in line right now and they are turning people away with the GAC card. They are providing wheel chairs in line so that people can sit! They are asking that people get fast passes! No more people getting all the time fast passes!!

 

[fosse76]

It seems lost on a number of posters in this and similar threads that Disney goes above and beyond what is required by the ADA because it's the right thing to do. Human decency is not something that can be comprehensively legislated or enforced, but over the years Disney has bent over backwards to be as compassionate and welcoming to as many people with disabilities as they could.

I think you may be given Disney too much credit here. Disney's policy was not developed to be compassionate and welcoming. The current policy was a lazy attempt by Disney in order to avoid any real solutions to accessibility.
By going "above and beyond," they are attempting to eliminate any possible legal claims that they violate the ADA.

Sadly, now the abuse has reached the point that some here are proposing that Disney stop being decent. I sincerely hope the Management at Disney who are reviewing the GAC program and abuses thereof aren't as single-minded or myopic as some of the posters in this thread and come up with changes that will address the abuses without destroying the incredibly humane and praiseworthy program that's in place.

Being disabled does not entitle anyone to benefits that would create a better experience than those that are not disabled. And a policy that creates an equal footing for the disabled and the non-disabled does not make the policy less "decent" or less "humane."

There are things that could be done to reduce some of the more blatant abuses:

• Require that GAC holders' group be identified when they first get the GAC. This would stop the "renting" of GAC holders as guides by "rich" families.

They should also enforce that the person who was issued the GAC ride with their party. My understanding is that this is also a large part of the problem. They can put the person's picture on the pass. That alone would probably reduce the abuse by a fair amount.

Have Medical Practitioners on staff to issue GACs rather than un-trained CMs at Guest Relations. The First Aid stations in the parks have nurses, perhaps they could be responsible. Then people might be less inclined randomly claim some disability they don't understand, if they have to explain what limitations are associated.

I think the only problem with that is cost. You can't simply tie up the nurse at first aid with GAC issuance, and hiring a large staff of medical professionals would be expensive (nurses can command very nice salaries, so I doubt they'd work for Disney if the pay isn't competitive). Perhaps moving the location for receiving GACs to First Aid, and have the nurse serve as a consultant could work with your suggestion. As long as the priority remains with people needing First Aid.

Issue only one-day GACs. While a bit of an additional burden, I think most GAC users who are "legitimate" wouldn't object. Regulars would become familiar to staff and the process would go more smoothly. Members of the accompanying "group" could be identified at the same time. If a GAC user was constantly bringing different "family from out of town", it would become obvious fairly quickly.

I don't think it's necessary to identify the group, because then you run into the problem that people may make several trips a year with different friends or family members. But getting a GAC daily isn't a bad idea.

Once RFID is fully implemented, tie GACs to the RFID and use that to limit total number of rides per day to what could reasonably be accomplished by an able-bodied person during the season in question. This would address the abuse that gets a user multiple rides all day, thus riding more than able-bodied possibly could. Hard to determine what a reasonable number of rides would be.

When I worked at Six Flags, the pass they issued could not be used again at the same attraction within 2 hours of the first ride. Disney could use the standby wait time as the limitation regarding re-rides.

 

[flynnibus]

I think you may be given Disney too much credit here. Disney's policy was not developed to be compassionate and welcoming. The current policy was a lazy attempt by Disney in order to avoid any real solutions to accessibility.
By going "above and beyond," they are attempting to eliminate any possible legal claims that they violate the ADA.

I think it's both - Disney demonstrated their desire and action to provide above and beyond service to the disabled long before it was legally required to do so. But that said, their current model is one of 'CYA' and streamlined to avoid giving specific accommodations.

 

[fosse76]

In the real world, people don't claim a disability of 'I can't wait in line' - that's why your whole call to Target story is confusing for them. No one does that - they come with disabilities like being unable to stand, carry things, read things, dealing with crowds, spaces, etc. The SOLUTION may be to get them to a shorter line... but the DISABILITY they come in announcing is not 'I can't wait in line'.

Exactly. It's ridiculous that people think immediate front-of-line access is mandated by the ADA, since this seems to only be an issue at theme parks, despite lines existing everywhere (you should see the lines at the AMC 25 in Times Square!)

The law dictates you must provide accommodation for their disability - not that you must give the accommodation the customer demands. The customer must quantify what they are encumbered or unable to do so the business can respond accordingly.

Exactly, which is why I get annoyed at the people in this post that Disney can't ask questions about the disability, since that's not remotely true. In order to be accomodated, you must disclose your disability (if not by name, but by physical limitations). How is a business supposed to accomodate you otherwise?

 

[doctornick]

The difference is at Disney, the potential 'gain' if you abuse the system is higher, and Disney has streamlined the system making it extremely accessible. That's the gas and the spark.. just sitting there waiting to be abused.

This is, in a nutshell, the issue. And the "solution" (to curb abuse) has to address one of these points:

(1) make the benefits of the GAC significantly less, so that it isn't "worth it" for people to lie to get it.
(2) make it difficult to acquire a pass. If the burden is high enough, then people won't jump through the hoops to get it.

(2) sounds like a poor idea to me because it would be inconveniencing people who really need it. They already have enough to deal with, so I wouldn't want to see them have a complicated process to deal with to get a GAC. So, I think the answer lies with (1) and coming up with a system that benefits those who truly need to GAC and makes a difference to their experience but isn't basically an "unlimited fastpass". Personally, I think the Universal system plus having wheelchair accessible queues makes a lot of sense and would quell most of the abuse while still being quite helpful to people who need it. But I understand and sympathize with the concerns that that system would make things worse for certain conditions.

The reality is that there is probably no perfect solution.

 

[fosse76]

I am in line right now and they are turning people away with the GAC card. They are providing wheel chairs in line so that people can sit! They are asking that people get fast passes! No more people getting all the time fast passes!!

If true, that was something I've stated several times in this thread would be a completely rational accomodation. Quite a few posters claimed one way or another that this was not reasonable, such as their child wouldn't want to sit in the chair and be pushed through the line, or they themselves don't want to be in a wheelchair. Well, pride is not an accepted disability under the ADA, and it is absolutely a reasonable accomodation for those that cannot physically stand in line.

 

[fosse76]

I'm all in favor of a doctor's note explaining why you can't stand or sit in a wheelchair in line. This will help narrow down the GAC to guests who physically need it because now a doctor will clearly define what their limitations are. Just like "luv" mentioned earlier, now Disney can keep a paper trail on disabled guests, so that if there are discrepancies or fraud suspected, it will be easier to pursue criminal charges.

I applaud Disney for all of their efforts towards guests with disabilities, but the bottom line is that the system is too vague and has too many flaws. It needs to be revised to ensure fairness for those in real need of assistance in the parks.

It is not criminal to fake a disability at Disney for the purposes of GAC. There is no money involved with the issuance and usage of a GAC, so guests who fraudulently claim a disability are being dishinest and unethical, but not criminal. If Disney admission media was discounted for people who require a GAC, then it could potentially be criminal in that instance (but not necessarily).

 

[flynnibus]

In order to be accomodated, you must disclose your disability (if not by name, but by physical limitations). How is a business supposed to accomodate you otherwise?

Yeah, the distinction other people keep missing is... the difference between what you are restricted/incapable of doing.. vs your medical diagnosis.

If I say I can't stand on my feet for more than 30mins continuously - that's all that needs to be said. That is my disability, and the business is free to ask me clarifications about that restriction. What they aren't entitled to, and what the person is protected from, is needing to explain or quantify what's behind that disability when dealing with a place of public accommodation (employment is different..).

Any 'justification' or 'proof' only comes into play in a legal challenge - not at the time the citizen is interacting with the place of public accommodation.

If you go into a business and state 'I have hypoglycemia' - they're going to say 'so what'. It's not the businesses' place or burden to understand what that means or how that impacts you. How the law is designed is for me to go in and say 'I may need to have food & drink while here to control my blood sugar' - and allow the business to find a reasonable way to allow the person to get what they need, without endangering the safety of others around them.

 

[flynnibus]

If true, that was something I've stated several times in this thread would be a completely rational accomodation. Quite a few posters claimed one way or another that this was not reasonable, such as their child wouldn't want to sit in the chair and be pushed through the line, or they themselves don't want to be in a wheelchair. Well, pride is not an accepted disability under the ADA, and it is absolutely a reasonable accomodation for those that cannot physically stand in line.

While pride isn't... the spirit of the law is about encouraging equal access and opportunity WITHOUT discrimination. When you start chastising people and forcing them into behaviors that singles them out or embarresses them... you're starting to dance into grey areas I certainly would not want to face a judge over. So while I agree with the underlying message about people need to accept what would be a reasonable accommodation... what is reasonable must stand up to scrutiny. Anything remotely dancing near mocking, demoralizing, etc.. and you are just asking to be a news item.