Possible Changes coming to the Guest Assistance Cards (GAC)

[bubbles1812]

This is so trivial. It really gets me that people REALLY think the disabled are getting such a better experience than they are. But I love how a lot of the spite is wrapped up in "stopping the abuse" when the argument generally comes down to the fact that healthy guests believe they're getting jipped and the handicapped are getting a better vacation when they've spent the same amount of money.

It's obvious these people haven't been to the park with a disabled family member whose disability severly impacts their own vacation. I have to push a wheelchair for my father all over the parks and sit with him so other family members can ride the rides he can't, and someone else has to be with him for me to ride the rides. We have to make sure he can get to the proper transportation in time (let's hear all the whining about the handicap skipping in line for a bus in front of everyone now!) to get back to his room in time (before 7 PM) so he can get to his nightly medical treatment. Not even counting he can't be out in the sun because of his medication for long periods, and can't stand in line becuase of another medical condition. He basically rides HM, IASW, People Mover, COP, CBJ, POTC and that's about it. If you're going to begrudge someone because of that, that's your problem. I'm spending the same money you are (probably even more!) for less of the experience that you're getting. There are so many other things to be angry about. THIS is petty. If you want a doctors note, prescriptions, a 'reasonable" criteria to get the card, let's discuss. If you're going to whine and cry that the handicap get a better vacation than you do, take it to a therapist.

Completely and utterly false. As @Tom Morrow said, people are not begrudging those with actual handicaps. It is the abusers. I will say it again... It is the abusers that people are having a problem with. They take advantage of the system and end up with a "plussed" experience far beyond what a regular or disabled guest gets. I have seen very little whining and crying about those with legitimate needs getting their needs met. It comes back to the abusers, time and time again. And to pretend they aren't a problem is naive, and ridiculous considering they have a negative impact on every guest, disabled or not.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Let me ask you a question about having a disability. Should my 5 year old son who is 100% mentally and emotionally on or above his age level but who can't walk independently without a walker be told he can't go to WDW because he is different? While I know it gets abused, without the GAC, my son would not be able to experience what other 5 year old boys would be able to experience at Disney which is why we go a few times a year and why we joined DVC. In my opinion, that in itself is enough to warrant you or others having to wait another 5 minutes in a line.

You can experience it with a modified GAC that allowed you to get a time to come back later. It would just match the standby wait. Which is what every other theme park in the country does. Again, the ADA was created to provide equal treatment. Given the opportunity to wait for one attraction at a time with a wait equivalent to the standby line (just like guests without disabilities) without having to physically stand in the standby line due to whatever physical or mental limitations there may be sounds like pretty fair and equal treatment to me.

And the best part is, it would not limit your ability to get FastPasses for other members of your party for attractions that perhaps the guest with a disability could not partake in.

 

[arko]

Please explain to us how he wouldn't be able to visit WDW without a card that entitles you to unlimited Fastpass line usage? Because WDW already fully accommodates those who can't walk WITHOUT the GACs. When I say "they", I mean any party with a card that doesn't actually need the assistance. You are choosing it to see it as me getting mad that parents with a severely mentally challenged child are having a better time than I am and I am absolutely NOT saying that. I'm saying that the thousands of parties who obtain the cards daily, in each park, who are perfectly capable, are taking advantage and ARE doing more.

This contradicts your previous statement where I asked you if it was fair that a legitimately disabled person using a GAC had the ability to ride more without taking into consideration the abuse factor

Or put in other words do you think Disney is doing a disservice to all its regular customers by giving those with disabilities an accommodation that amounts to an advantage when touring the parks, Again put aside the abuse issues, and look at it from that perspective alone.​

Yes, because, as it stands, it is causing everyone else to be able to do less than they could without the cards, because card holders can do more.

But lets dial this back a bit because the last thing this thread needs is another moderation session and look at what the real problem here is. And that is simple.

How can Disney create a new GAC system that affords the same level of accommodations that the disabled have today, without creating the high level of abuse that the current system allows that negatively affects non disabled guests.

That my friend does not have an easy answer no matter what plan you have, because all of them negatively impact someone, just as today's system negatively impacts non disabled guests through abuse.

 

[wm49rs]

How can Disney create a new GAC system that affords the same level of accommodations that the disabled have today, without creating the high level of abuse that the current system allows that negatively affects non disabled guests.

The only question I would ask is if would be feasible for Disney to reduce the number of accompanying guests that utilize a GAC along with the handicapped person?

 

[arko]

You can experience it with a modified GAC that allowed you to get a time to come back later. It would just match the standby wait. Which is what every other theme park in the country does. Again, the ADA was created to provide equal treatment. Given the opportunity to wait for one attraction at a time with a wait equivalent to the standby line (just like guests without disabilities) without having to physically stand in the standby line due to whatever physical or mental limitations there may be sounds like pretty fair and equal treatment to me.

And the best part is, it would not limit your ability to get FastPasses for other members of your party for attractions that perhaps the guest with a disability could not partake in.

The system sounds great to you because you see no down side to it, and indeed some people with disabilities would do well by this system, but it doesn't work for everyone.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

The system sounds great to you because you see no down side to it, and indeed some people with disabilities would do well by this system, but it doesn't work for everyone.

But unfortunately, that it doesn't work well for some does not necessarily make it unfair or unequal, and all Disney has to do to obey the law is make it fair and equal. There is no law that says they have to make it as painless as possible for every possible party involved. And because the system would offer no significant advantage over the current Standby/FastPass system, people would feel less inclined to abuse it, freeing up the system for people who actually need it.

 

[JLipnick]

Please explain to us how he wouldn't be able to visit WDW without a card that entitles you to unlimited Fastpass line usage? Because WDW already fully accommodates those who can't walk WITHOUT the GACs. When I say "they", I mean any party with a card that doesn't actually need the assistance. You are choosing it to see it as me getting mad that parents with a severely mentally challenged child are having a better time than I am and I am absolutely NOT saying that. I'm saying that the thousands of parties who obtain the cards daily, in each park, who are perfectly capable, are taking advantage and ARE doing more.

So for example, my son has severe low muscle tone which prevents him from standing independently. He can stand and walk with a walker but his muscles fatigue very quickly. If he had to stand in line for an hour, he would be done for the day. So probably the next question is why can't we put him in a wheelchair which disney would provide for someone who can't stand for long periods of time. You can ask a disabled adult to do that. You cannot ask a 5 year old boy to sit in a wheelchair who is not wheelchair bound.

 

[arko]

The only question I would ask is if would be feasible for Disney to reduce the number of accompanying guests that utilize a GAC along with the handicapped person?

Right now that limit is 6, which is your average family with 4 kids. I have seen groups where the gave out 2, which I have mixed feelings about, because in some instances families are larger than 6 but in others its extended family simply enjoying the benefits.
We only use the GAC when my son is riding a ride, and no other times, and even then only if we see a wait time that would cause him an issue being trapped in line. I have been to Disney maybe 20 times in the last 10 years and I have never once been on Space Mountain, Splash Mountain, Tower of Tower, Rocking Roller Coaster and most other E ticket rides. I don't get to enjoy nearly as much as the average Dinsey visitor, but the GAC makes it at least easier to ride what we do get to ride.

 

[arko]

But unfortunately, that it doesn't work well for some does not necessarily make it unfair or unequal, and all Disney has to do to obey the law is make it fair and equal. There is no law that says they have to make it as painless as possible for every possible party involved. And because the system would offer no significant advantage over the current Standby/FastPass system, people would feel less inclined to abuse it, freeing up the system for people who actually need it.

Your right all Disney has to do is obey the law, they chose to do better than that, and for that I commend them, but like anything commendable it got abused.And fair and equal is a subjective word, all the accommodations in the world isn't going even the playing field for some disabilities.

 

[JLipnick]

You can experience it with a modified GAC that allowed you to get a time to come back later. It would just match the standby wait. Which is what every other theme park in the country does. Again, the ADA was created to provide equal treatment. Given the opportunity to wait for one attraction at a time with a wait equivalent to the standby line (just like guests without disabilities) without having to physically stand in the standby line due to whatever physical or mental limitations there may be sounds like pretty fair and equal treatment to me.

And the best part is, it would not limit your ability to get FastPasses for other members of your party for attractions that perhaps the guest with a disability could not partake in.

This would be a very fair approach. I guess they can do that with the new fastpass+. Another thing that i think should be done but that will probably never be done is for disney to require a note from a doctor. When we went to get a disability tag for our car, they didn't just give us one. we had to prove it was needed.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

This would be a very fair approach. I guess they can do that with the new fastpass+. Another thing that i think should be done but that will probably never be done is for disney to require a note from a doctor. When we went to get a disability tag for our car, they didn't just give us one. we had to prove it was needed.

They would have to provide a medically trained professional for doctor's notes. As some disabilities (ie autism) are not visually apparent. That's where it starts crossing in the line into potential legal issues and liability.

 

[arko]

This would be a very fair approach. I guess they can do that with the new fastpass+. Another thing that i think should be done but that will probably never be done is for disney to require a note from a doctor. When we went to get a disability tag for our car, they didn't just give us one. we had to prove it was needed.

I still have the note in my wallet we got from the doctor the first time we went, and will willingly show it if they ever start asking. But the ADA regulations are a little vague on whether they can ask or not, and nobody is expert enough on ADA regulations to say either way. But my bet is Disney lawyers have looked at it in the past and decided it wasn't worth the risk.

 

[JLipnick]

They would have to provide a medically trained professional for doctor's notes. As some disabilities (ie autism) are not visually apparent. That's where it starts crossing in the line into potential legal issues and liability.

Most people who go to WDW plan in advance (except those lucky enough to live very close). As part of the new FAstpass+, i think they should be able to have a form to be filled out by a doctor in advance and have the GAC applied accordingly to the fastpass+ when you get to the parks. Could people still fake it? Sure. But it is a lot of effort to go through unless you really need it. this way disney wouldn't need someone medically trained. if they get a script from a doctor, then that should be all they need, regardless if it is for autism or other physical disabilities.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Your right all Disney has to do is obey the law, they chose to do better than that, and for that I commend them, but like anything commendable it got abused.And fair and equal is a subjective word, all the accommodations in the world isn't going even the playing field for some disabilities.

You're right, it won't. But by going above and beyond (or at least what some would consider going above and beyond) it got, as you stated, abused because what they created was able to be abused. So now they have to go to a system that is the bare minimum and provides an identical experience to what a guest without disabilities experiences sans physically standing in the line.

I get that this isn't the best option for certain types of disabilities, especially children with autism. But you also have to consider that there was likely a point in time before autism was so widely known that children with such disabilities went to the park and had to deal with no GAC system in place and no FastPass system. By comparison any system that Disney could implement would be better than such an alternative.

 

[JLipnick]

I still have the note in my wallet we got from the doctor the first time we went, and will willingly show it if they ever start asking. But the ADA regulations are a little vague on whether they can ask or not, and nobody is expert enough on ADA regulations to say either way. But my bet is Disney lawyers have looked at it in the past and decided it wasn't worth the risk.

I can't imagine it is illegal for disney to request proof of disability as long as they require it for everyone requesting the GAC and not only those who don't have obvious ailments. I like the example of the handicap tag for a car. you can't just get one. you have to prove it is needed. at least in maryland. i would assume it is the same everywhere. but, i do see that it could cause them legal problems that may or may not be worth the risk.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

I can't imagine it is illegal for disney to request proof of disability as long as they require it for everyone requesting the GAC and not only those who don't have obvious ailments. I like the example of the handicap tag for a car. you can't just get one. you have to prove it is needed. at least in maryland. i would assume it is the same everywhere. but, i do see that it could cause them legal problems that may or may not be worth the risk.

I think with handicap placards there are two things at play here: They are provided by a governmental agency, not a private company and there are laws in place that determine how many handicap spaces are legally required per however many normal parking spaces you have. If too many people who don't necessarily need them get them, this could put a strain on businesses to create additional parking for "disabled" individuals they don't really need and also puts them at risk for legal action for not providing an adequate number of handicap spaces.

 

[arko]

You're right, it won't. But by going above and beyond (or at least what some would consider going above and beyond) it got, as you stated, abused because what they created was able to be abused. So now they have to go to a system that is the bare minimum and provides an identical experience to what a guest without disabilities experiences sans physically standing in the line.

I get that this isn't the best option for certain types of disabilities, especially children with autism. But you also have to consider that there was likely a point in time before autism was so widely known that children with such disabilities went to the park and had to deal with no GAC system in place and no FastPass system. By comparison any system that Disney could implement would be better than such an alternative.

I am sure you will find that most legitimate users of the GAC feel its Disney going above and beyond, and I would wager that many of those families simply didn't go to Disney World at all or take the child with autism with them when they went. That or the child simply sat on the side with on parent while the other parent took the other kids on the rides. Also you have to remember long wait times are a newer phenomenon, before 1982 everyone used tickets to get on rides to wait times were almost non existant, and fastpass which made the lines worse was only introduced in 1999.

To be honest it will be interesting to see if fastpass+ decreases or increases standby wait time.

 

[arko]

I think with handicap placards there are two things at play here: They are provided by a governmental agency, not a private company and there are laws in place that determine how many handicap spaces are legally required per however many normal parking spaces you have. If too many people who don't necessarily need them get them, this could put a strain on businesses to create additional parking for "disabled" individuals they don't really need and also puts them at risk for legal action for not providing an adequate number of handicap spaces.

And even though you need proof they are just as abused as the GAC.

 

[arko]

I think with handicap placards there are two things at play here: They are provided by a governmental agency, not a private company and there are laws in place that determine how many handicap spaces are legally required per however many normal parking spaces you have. If too many people who don't necessarily need them get them, this could put a strain on businesses to create additional parking for "disabled" individuals they don't really need and also puts them at risk for legal action for not providing an adequate number of handicap spaces.

the closest I could find that applied is for service dogs and the ADA states the following

In situations where it is not apparent that the dog is a service animal, a business may ask only two questions: 1) is the animal required because of a disability; and 2) what work or task has the animal been trained to perform? No other inquiries about an individual's disability or the dog are permitted. Businesses cannot require proof of certification or medical documentation as a condition for entry.

While that is for entry of a service dog, something tells me asking the same about a human would have the same answer.

The law is much clearer on the subject of employment where employers are allowed to ask for proof when an accommodation is being asked for, but are not allowed to ask for details.

 

[amzgirl]

There is a solution that could come with the advent of NextGen technologies... If instead of getting a card, the GAC were tied to the disabled individual's RFID tag, whether wristband or ticket, then s/he could be limited in the total number of rides normally experienced by an average guest during the course of a full day in the park during the season in question. The "party" allowed to accompany them could be identified in advance [with the ability to add someone legitimate in the case of a disabled AP holder] and only have access to the rides if the disabled person goes through first. This would immediately control the "renting" of GAC access to families with a paid GAC holder escort, keep the disabled from getting an unfair benefit, while they can use their access as quickly or slowly as they choose, they are limited to whatever could reasonably be accessed at that time of year by an able-bodied guest. In slow season, that might be harder to determine, I remember [without GAC] riding Expedition Everest 27 times in a single day. A separate advantage to this would be the removal of any stigma or complaints about disabled using the GAC, to any outside observer all they would see is a group accessing a ride through the FP queue. For rides that have alternate access not using the FP queue, the RFID would still be used to confirm the ride limit was not being exceeded. Whether the ride limit is used on one or multiple rides would be up to the individual, just as it is for able-bodied guests [see my EE example].

This idea would give various different types of disabilities a reasonable accommodation while reducing, if not eliminating, much of the real or perceived abuse. If it doesn't "guarantee" instant access to more rides, very few people would be wiling to pay a disabled GAC holder for the privilege, it would be harder to include a random family as part of your "group" anyway. The abusers who use it to get access to significantly more rides would be foiled. It probably still wouldn't stop all abuse, I imagine nothing could.

This.

I am one of those families with an autistic child that goes to Disney regularly because it is one of the VERY FEW places we can all enjoy as a family. We don't do museums, city festivals, special events like ICE at the Gaylord Palms, historic places, etc. He does not tolerate them because he cannot understand them and therefore they hold no interest for him. If Disney adopted the policy of going up to a ride and getting a return time, we would probably stop going, as some friends of ours did with Universal a few years ago when they changed their policy to this one. Why? Because if we go up to a ride and leave again without riding, there will be a meltdown. And at 15, though very small for his age, my son is very difficult to control when he wants to go in one direction in the middle of a meltdown and we need to go another. And he is VERY used to the current system and will not understand the change. He too has low tone and though he does not use a walker or wheelchair, he tends to just sit on the floor wherever he is when we are standing still (a constant issue while waiting for Soarin, even with a GAC.) He invades others personal space and makes odd vocalizations which increase in intensity as his frustration grows (he is nonverbal.) You do not want to be in line with my family behind you for an hour. Yes, we could use a "fastpass runner", but that does not work when he wants to ride his favorite ride now, not an hour from now, and riding that ONE ride now will allow us to enjoy the rest of the day in relative peace. Autism and OCD very frequently go hand in hand.

We already do not do parades, rarely do fireworks (unless its Wishes where you can just stop and look up), have never seen Fantasmic, rarely take in shows, don't do interactive games, and more. If they go to the Universal system, we will be done going. With the FP+ technology there is no need for such an antiquated system.