Possible Changes coming to the Guest Assistance Cards (GAC)

[joanna71985]

My husband was in line today for Space MT and he said he saw a CM turn away a man with a GAC. He heard the CM tell the man that the GAC is for the child he's with and that the child has to be with him for him to be able to use the pass. He heard the man say his daughter was with his wife. The man turned and walked away. I was happy to hear that this happened.

It happens at TSM too (or at least, it did when I was there).

 

[Ciciwoowoo]

Ok...I admit I haven't read through the entire post yet, but the solution to the problem is something already in place at Disney.

They simply need to adapt every queue to be somewhat like the new Dumbo one, where there is a bit area for people to wait in while they are waiting their turn. Make sure it is covered and has some quiet corners. Make some seating, some things for kids to do while waiting. Hand everyone a beeper when they enter the line so they will be paged when it is their turn.

I'm sure there is something much more technically advanced that can be done like this with RFID, but I don't know that much about the system use that as an example.

 

[englanddg]

I don't speak for the intended person here, but personally my beef with the system(s) across the board for guest service is not that they provide above and beyond what they need to, it is that people have started to become conditioned that if they have some kind of issue, they automatically get preferential treatment of some kind. The result is lawsuits and trying to get things changed so that preferential treatment is forced/enforced when they encounter an instance where "equality" is granted, which isn't enough for them. I know most would gladly trade their disability for the daily inconveniences the rest of us face, but then there are those that have come to expect that they get anything and everything they desire because of their disabled status. That is what irks a lot of people. It hasn't been about equality for the vocal minority that always seems to be the loudest, it has seemingly become about preferential treatment.

Touchy thread, lots of passionate but pleasant debate, and many good ideas on how to deal with the situation.

GAC doesn't bother me, because as many have stated before, I'm too busy enjoying my own vacation to truly notice who is using one and who isn't, or even care. Operationally, I can understand why Disney decided to utilize current fast pass queues for GAC cardholders, as there comes a point where the more complex a system becomes, the more likely it is to break.

ADA does indeed limit what employers and businesses can demand of someone in terms of proving their disability, but even of it wasn't law, it's just a bad idea from a Guest Service perspective. Far more likely to offend then accomplish the goals of limiting abuse.

I wanted to toss in some anecdotal evidence here to support the statement from the poster above. I stayed at Pop for two weeks in August, and there was a guy I ran into several times that I nicknamed "Walker Bob"...because he had rented a scooter from Walker Rentals. I ran into him on the parks and at the hotel, and he consistently seemed to be in a bad mood. I do not know his condition, but from his body language, I have no doubt he needed the scooter at all, and possibly he was in consistent pain.

The first night I ran into Walker Bob was at the MGM bus stops. It was end of night on an EM night, so I'm sure you can imagine what the bus queues looked like. A group with 2 elderly people in scooters had already boarded the bus, and the driver was about to pull up to load the rest of the guests when Walker Bob came hurtling up demanding that he be let on. After a very heated discussion with the bus driver, who politely informed him (in my opinion) that he was truly sorry, but the bus cannot accommodate more then two scooters, but, the next bus would be along shortly or he could choose the AoA bus at the next stop over if it came first, Walker Bob said a few choice words about how this is discrimination (it wasn't, it was a physical limitation of the bus), and motored around to get the bus number and then scooted off into the night.

Several minutes later, he returned, with a rather beleaguered CM in tow to complain about how he was being discriminated against because the bus driver made him wait.

I guess my point is that, for some ADA has become an entitlement mentality.

That being said, I didn't really care (though I did feel sorry for the CMs who had to deal with his bullish attitude and salty mouth).

Anyhow, tying this back to GAC, there are people who will abuse any system provided. This goes for ADA, GAC, food stamps, unemployment, disabilty, etc. The real question for any of these programs is, is the net benefit worth the abuses?

In my eyes, GAC is. (this is not the forum to debate some of the other programs I listed)

 

[tdpolo26]

In NJ, all you need is a Doctor's signature on a motor vehicle department form, and as has been shown by many an investigative news reporter, many just sign. Then once the placard is given to the driver, it is good for years, and can be used by anyone. My wife and son could use mine if they wished, nothing would stop them.

thats still a signature.... but i get your point. However i think if people are going to get front of the line for many things they should have to prove why. Other then that disney can accomodate with wheel chairs and maybe a few fast passes

 

[englanddg]

I wanted to expand on my post with a personal experience I had as a teenager working at Chuck E Cheese, when it comes to inquiring about disability and general Guest Service.

CEC Has no GAC, or anything like that, but I was working Kid Check and ran into an issue that made me feel like a heel. For those of you unfamiliar with CEC, Kid Check is a podium in the front where people in a group are stamped on their hand with invisible ink (stickers are available for smaller children or for kids with allergies/parents don't want the child stamped or don't care to be stamped). The base concept is that parents can then feel comfortable allowing their children to explore the restaurant without having to worry about someone unauthorized leaving with their child. As an aside, this happens more then you might think, especially with divorced households, where the non-custodial parent tries to leave with the child.

So, I was still rather young (I worked for CEC for 11 years, making it all the way to the corporate training dept before hanging up my hat and moving on), and a child came in with a rather obvious bandage over his head covering the left ear. Now, while the primary purpose of Kid Check is security and peace of mind for the parents, the secondary mission is to "make magic" (sound familiar? Yeah, we stole a lot from Disney). We would ask them what they were celebrating today, recognize birthdays with a balloon and tokens, etc.

So, this kid comes in and I figure, this is my chance to make some magic! So, I try to make small talk with the child, figuring he had a baseball injury or something. It's been a long time, but I said something along the lines of "Oh my, what happened to your head? Baseball hit you?". (I should note, it was Baseball season, and the Little League World Series was being held in my city that year...so I had seen a lot of baseball players that week).

The kid immediately started bawling his eyes out. The mother gruffly pulled me aside and demanded to speak to my manager. I signaled the Cashier and she called back for him. When he came out, the whole story came to light. As it turns out, the kid was born without an ear, and never liked to leave the house. The mother had appearantly pleaded with him and explained no one would notice...and used CEC as incentive to get him to come out of his shell...and what was the first thing that happened when they got there? Someone noticed. I noticed...

While I have my own opinions on the mothers reaction to the situation, I learned an important lesson that day, and incorporated it later when I'd train people...don't ask, even if it's innocent. I felt terrible for the kid...whose magical day (yeah, something else we stole) I'd ruined.

 

[tdpolo26]

It is absolutely 100% against the law for a private orginazation to ask for proof of a disability.

And all they have to do is provide accessibility to rides. If you want more they should provide a reason. Maybe then the people who truly need the GAC cards wont get the dirty looks. Honestly though i could care less what people do around me.... Doesnt matter at all! do i think its annoying people scam the system, or people who dont like the heat or feet hurt a bit from standing in a line go apply for one... yeah its annoying to hear and see that! let me tell you what everyones feet hurts and no one likes sitting in the heat! obviously there are varying degrees but the burden of proof should fall to the guest if they would like the fastpass for the day cards (GAC). But then again scammers are scammers and they will just find a doctor to write any note and disney will need to accept it. There is a warm seat in a bad place for people like that especially because they give a bad name to people with true disabilities and hardships.

 

[englanddg]

And all they have to do is provide accessibility to rides. If you want more they should provide a reason. Maybe then the people who truly need the GAC cards wont get the dirty looks. Honestly though i could care less what people do around me.... Doesnt matter at all! do i think its annoying people scam the system, or people who dont like the heat or feet hurt a bit from standing in a line go apply for one... yeah its annoying to hear and see that! let me tell you what everyones feet hurts and no one likes sitting in the heat! obviously there are varying degrees but the burden of proof should fall to the guest if they would like the fastpass for the day cards (GAC). But then again scammers are scammers and they will just find a doctor to write any note and disney will need to accept it. There is a warm seat in a bad place for people like that especially because they give a bad name to people with true disabilities and hardships.

Why find a doctor when DR. M. S. Word can print out a letter stating whatever you want? Unless Disney wants to confirm every doctors letter, then it's pointless buearcracy.

 

[AEfx]

see the point, until they step up and require such documentation people like myself will always have assumptions.

And you can make any assumptions you want, because your opinion is really irrelevant if you are not Disney or the government - although I'm sure you know what making assumptions often makes one regardless.

Personally, I have no problem with Disney needing some sort of documentation for a GAC. If your kid is out of school for more than a day some places, or at many work places, you need to get a doctor's note. Since a trip to WDW is well-planned in advance I don't see any reason that would be a huge problem if you truly need assistance. Technically my niece doesn't even need to get one as she has a wheelchair (it "acts" as one), but we will gladly provide documentation to get one and we usually get one just to be safe anyway.

 

[TP2000]

Simply put.. you're wrong. I've pointed you to resources you can do the research yourself if you don't believe me, but I'm not going to spoon feed it to you or do your work for you.

If it were only about wheelchairs - there would be no reason to mention mental disabilities at all in the entire law or other ailments.

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, but I'll ask again because you haven't answered it...

If you are saying Disney legally has to provide a GAC service for those with "mental disabilities", then why don't any other departments at Disney have to provide the service? (I'll set aside the bigger question; why no other private business or government office has to provide a GAC service even though their facilities are wheelchair-accesible)

If the ADA law says the GAC has to be offered, then why doesn't Disney offer GAC access to parking lot trams or buses, or restaurant lines at lunch, or lines for cashiers at The Emporium at Midnight? The GACs are only good for reducing/removing wait times in the parks at the rides, even though the ADA laws cover every shop, restaurant, meet n' greet, transportation system and hotel check-in desk on Disney property, all places where long lines to procure a good or service can exist.

If the GAC concept is an important part of the ADA laws as you say, instead of merely a customer service perk as I say, then why are they only good at theme park rides? If they have to offer a GAC legally (which I still don't think they do), how does Disney get away with only offering that accomodation at the rides?

 

[flynnibus]

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, but I'll ask again because you haven't answered it...

If you are saying Disney legally has to provide a GAC service for those with "mental disabilities", then why don't any other departments at Disney have to provide the service? (I'll set aside the bigger question; why no other private business or government office has to provide a GAC service even though their facilities are wheelchair-accesible)

they don't have to provide a GAC service - they need to provide reasonable accommodations, and they do. Walk up to a cashier and ask for shopping assistance, and someone will help you. Ask them to read something to you, they will, etc. If you were a single parent with an autistic child and waiting in the line would freak them out, they would make accommodations for you.

The key words are 'REASONABLE accommodation'. Having to provide private limo service from the parking lot for random people who don't want to ride the tram - not reasonable. Letting someone move into another line that already exists, and is there all the time... reasonable.

The GAC is just Disney's means of simplifying communication in the parks.

If the ADA law says the GAC has to be offered, then why doesn't Disney offer GAC access to parking lot trams or buses, or restaurant lines at lunch, or lines for cashiers at The Emporium at Midnight?

They do, just not via the same program offered in the parks. Again, if any person were to walk up to a CM and ask for assistance, they would get it.

Your assumptions are again... wrong.

 

[Lucky]

The first night I ran into Walker Bob was at the MGM bus stops. It was end of night on an EM night, so I'm sure you can imagine what the bus queues looked like. A group with 2 elderly people in scooters had already boarded the bus, and the driver was about to pull up to load the rest of the guests when Walker Bob came hurtling up demanding that he be let on. After a very heated discussion with the bus driver, who politely informed him (in my opinion) that he was truly sorry, but the bus cannot accommodate more then two scooters, but, the next bus would be along shortly or he could choose the AoA bus at the next stop over if it came first, Walker Bob said a few choice words about how this is discrimination (it wasn't, it was a physical limitation of the bus), and motored around to get the bus number and then scooted off into the night.

Several minutes later, he returned, with a rather beleaguered CM in tow to complain about how he was being discriminated against because the bus driver made him wait.

I saw something similar at Coronado 3 weeks ago - a large family with Granddad in an ECV at the bus stop, and there were already 2 chairs on the bus, so no room for Granddad. He didn't seem to mind so much, but a 20-something woman in his party erupted with the F-word on the bus in the presence of a lot of kids. (The other members of her party clearly disapproved of her behavior.) You might ask why they were on the bus? Because they left poor old Granddad and Grandma alone to catch the next one and hunt them down in the parks.

The next day I made friends with 2 women in ECVs who were part of a large crowd waiting for a bus to MK. It was clear not everyone would be able to get on, and I used the phone at the stop to alert the powers-that-be that another bus was needed. The 2 women volunteered to wait for the next bus - no sense of entitlement there - but the driver insisted on taking them first, and I told them not to worry about it and get on. They had been waiting longer than most of the crowd.

Most of the time when I see people demanding special treatment - at WDW or in other walks of life - it has nothing to do with disabilities. Plenty of non-disabled people demand special treatment for all sorts of reasons.

 

[Tom Morrow]

The key words are 'REASONABLE accommodation'. Having to provide private limo service from the parking lot for random people who don't want to ride the tram - not reasonable. Letting someone move into another line that already exists, and is there all the time... reasonable.

The GAC is just Disney's means of simplifying communication in the parks.

Reasonable accommodations is what most park chains do. What Disney is doing is handing out a ridiculously unfair and powerful card and then trusts society to not abuse it. What's the old saying, give an inch, and people will take a mile? "Alright, here's this card that will get you into everything without having to wait and there are absolutely no limits to it and with the current setup there is almost no way to ensure its even being used properly, but don't abuse it, mmmkay? "

 

[flynnibus]

Reasonable accommodations is what most park chains do. What Disney is doing is handing out a ridiculously unfair and powerful card and then trusts society to not abuse it.

Yes and why people like me keep saying the problem is Disney... Not the law or the disabled. With posts like the one below...

People here are being absurd simply because Disney is going ABOVE AND BEYOND the law. If you want to cry over 'its not fair' take it to Disney.. not the disabled, not the law itself.

 

[Rasvar]

Some of the new ADA rules are also expanding what has to be done. It is why you are seeing the self-operated chairs at pools (that aren't cheap). I saw another regulation that will be a mess if a major renovation or new roller coaster construction is done. A ADA regulation diagram for the same kind of technology that will allow a person in a wheelchair to be loaded into a rollercoaster by the same type method as the pools are now being required. Some of the new ADA regs are really going to cause issues with future renovations of some facilities.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Yes and why people like me keep saying the problem is Disney... Not the law or the disabled. With posts like the one below...

I was under the impression you were saying that Disney is legally obligated to provide such a service, not that they're just doing it to go "above and beyond."

Them wanting to offer an "above and beyond" service is fine and all, but obviously they can't continue with this flimsy procedure much longer or soon the majority of park guests will have a card, the fastpass line will be the regular line, and the standby lines will be even more inflated.

 

[AEfx]

I was under the impression you were saying that Disney is legally obligated to provide such a service, not that they're just doing it to go "above and beyond."

Them wanting to offer an "above and beyond" service is fine and all, but obviously they can't continue with this flimsy procedure much longer or soon the majority of park guests will have a card, the fastpass line will be the regular line, and the standby lines will be even more inflated.

Well, it's always been going on. Especially since the Internet let people in on it - which is one reason that I usually PM people who are asking legitimate questions instead of posting the experiences we have had and what accommodations you can get at certain rides. Sad, but true. But it's not some new phenomenon.

Basically, the reason they do it is both - one, to ensure compliance, and two, because they are Disney. Basically, the ADA covers being accessible to someone with disabilities - things like can a wheelchair go through the queue. In a lot of instances, it's easier for Disney to let you in a back door instead of actually redesigning the queue. Technically they could make you stand there and wait the same amount of time as someone in the "regular" line, but they don't usually do that.

 

[flynnibus]

I was under the impression you were saying that Disney is legally obligated to provide such a service, not that they're just doing it to go "above and beyond."

Disney is legally obligated to provide reasonable accommodation for disabilities - and not just limited to mobility disabilities. But in terms of **WHAT** accommodations Disney is providing, they are providing above and beyond what is legally necessary when it comes to the 'front of the line' pass.

Essentially, Disney must accommodate these guests, including a wide range of disabilities, and no they can't require documentation. With that part said... how Disney has chosen to address those requirements is a blend of streamlining, extra customer service, and a healthy helping of lack of trust of employees/training leading to the easiest answer to be just give almost anyone front of the line access because it's far easier than trying to manage a solution that actually provides a variety of accommodations everywhere.

Them wanting to offer an "above and beyond" service is fine and all, but obviously they can't continue with this flimsy procedure much longer or soon the majority of park guests will have a card, the fastpass line will be the regular line, and the standby lines will be even more inflated.

I don't disagree - but it's a Disney problem to resolve.. and is solvable.

 

[unkadug]

@doppelv

Thank you for your thoughts. I agree...there is no disability that requires one to experience the same attraction three times within an hours time.

A "reasonable accommodation" implies equal opportunity. This is just abuse.

 

[WDWLOVER1957]

oh I agree 100% percent... it wouldn't make an impact, but how can it not irk you when you see a handicapped child with a GAC enter a FP line WITH HIS ENTIRE FAMILY / PARTY OF 12 PEOPLE?

Thats up to castmembers to enforce the rule of 6 persons, but as always with Disney they enforce no rules

 

[Lokheed]

...they were so excited to tell me how they were able to ride Star Tours three times in under an hour, when the standby time was well over an hour. From their tone, they didn't see it as abuse, they saw it as a happy result of their accommodation. This really bothered me, because in trying to give my relatives an equal experience, they actually gave them a better experience than most. This is what I feel needs to change.

I guess my family is guilty of "abusing" the GAC. Ben would never have reached 3,500 rides on SWSA before it closed if it weren't for that card. Very early on (somewhere in the first year he fell in love with the ride) we set a rule with him that he could go on the ride three times, and then he had to do something else. A typical day in the park might be 3x on SWSA, then Pooh, 3x on SWSA, then Pirates, 3x on SWSA, then TTA, etc. As the years wore on we were able to wean him more and more away from SWSA. He would still always go there first and ride it three times, but then we might do three or four other things before going back. We felt it was a good balance between rewarding him for good behavior by letting him do his favorite thing in the world, while at the same time gradually breaking him away from that obsession and getting him to expand his horizons and enjoy other experiences.

My point being: at the micro- level I can see how that appears to be abuse to the casual observer, but on the macro- level it was a very specific long-term behavioral therapy goal that played out over the course of ten years. We were in the park this afternoon (saw the preview for Story Time with Belle, it was awesome and Ben *loved* the animatronics), and we never used the GAC once although we were in the park for several hours. Ben has reached a point where more often than not he is able to wait patiently in lines without causing disruptions or having emotional breakdowns. That is a massive amount of progress from where we started, and it is something that extends to practical life skills throughout his day-to-day experiences. There is no doubt in my mind that Disney, and the GAC, has played a very large role in my son's progress, and I am thankful for all the Cast Members over the years who allowed us to "abuse" the privilege. It quite literally has made my son who he is today.