Possible Changes coming to the Guest Assistance Cards (GAC)

[Tod&BigMamaOdie]

I am not hoping (& am attempting to make a joke) but maybe one day, we all will have chips implanted on our being, complete with medical records that the RFID or NextGen or whatever can read.

 

[ddbowdoin]

Only when you make an assumption of dishonest people. True in a large society that is hard to avoid.. but if one always assumes the worst, you will create it eventually.



Again - such thoughts are based on the premise 'they are getting something I am not' or 'they are taking something away from me'. These are thoughts based on Disney's actions - not the law.

Do you honestly feel the same jealously or 'backlash' because the bathroom in your resturant is a little larger.. or the aisle at the grocery story is more managable? Do you really wish you could wear those horrible IR headphones when you are at the movie theater?



Because you have this fatal flaw that you see it as a 'benefit' when in reality it's not about gain, but equality. The example from before applies 100%.. how would you feel if you had to document you were fit to ride every attraction or before you were allowed in the Disney Parks.. you wouldn't find it all that pleasant and desirable.



Blame Disney - that's where the flaws are..



I think somebody needed more sunday school...

Blame Disney - that's where the flaws are..
100% agree... but their inability to require documentation displays the issue with the law. ADA is far from a perfect law, this is a good example.

how would you feel if you had to document you were fit to ride every attraction or before you were allowed in the Disney Parks.. you wouldn't find it all that pleasant and desirable.

that is a bad example... and is way too easy from your side to make. I agree 100% on the aspect of equality, but for those who actually need it. If it is abused, then yes... IT BECOMES A BENEFIT. There has to be a measure of ensuring those who use it actually need it. We'll have to agree to disagree... you're looking at the policy from a purely innocent and fundamental mindset, I see the opportunity to take advantage, that is where we differ.

 

[flynnibus]

If it is abused, then yes... IT BECOMES A BENEFIT

.

so does robbing a bank... rape... murder... etc. There are a lot of things you benefit from when you put yourself before anyone else. That really doesn't make equality = road to benefit. It means if you put yourself ahead of others.. sure it looks like a benefit.

There has to be a measure of ensuring those who use it actually need it. We'll have to agree to disagree... you're looking at the policy from a purely innocent and fundamental mindset, I see the opportunity to take advantage, that is where we differ.

There is more than one solution that simply 'restricting access'. If you take away the incentive to abuse.. the problem solves itself. Simplicity in the world does not come from more rules.. but rather making the right choice, the obvious choice. Or you could introduce penalties. You don't have to require documentation to catch people admitting they lie.

 

[Nicole]

I like the idea of the GAC having a photograph on it to prevent it from being used by someone other than the guest for whom it was issued.

It's like anything else - there are always "takers" out there who will abuse the system but it's very difficult to stop them without making it harder for those who have a legitimate need.

Maybe have a dedicated FP machine that guests can insert their GAC into to receive a FP even if all the FPs are gone for the day (with the return time as posted on the standby line?) Maybe limit the number of times per hour the GAC can be used, or at least limit it to not being used on the SAME ride more than once every 1-2 hours? Maybe a GAC category for those who can't stand in lines that allows them to "borrow" a temporary wheelchair just to be used in the queue of that ride?

I think there are lots of things that can be done - and I think that we are likely to see some changes now that this has been brought to the attention of those with the power to make changes. It will be interesting to see what they try.

 

[ddbowdoin]

.

so does robbing a bank... rape... murder... etc. There are a lot of things you benefit from when you put yourself before anyone else. That really doesn't make equality = road to benefit. It means if you put yourself ahead of others.. sure it looks like a benefit.



There is more than one solution that simply 'restricting access'. If you take away the incentive to abuse.. the problem solves itself. Simplicity in the world does not come from more rules.. but rather making the right choice, the obvious choice. Or you could introduce penalties. You don't have to require documentation to catch people admitting they lie.

If you take away the incentive to abuse.. the problem solves itself.

Being able to skip 180min line for TSM will always create an incentive for abuse. I'm unsure of how you would be able to remove an incentive.

You don't have to require documentation to catch people admitting they lie

really?


Access to medicine helps a great deal of people coping with chronic pain, you could say it is a benefit... since it is not free, but a pharmacist cannot discriminate and refuse providing such medicine to valid patients. Pain medication can be abused, and often is, so that reality means I simply cannot mosey on in and claim my back hurts (without documentation) to ask for Oxy. Measures were taken to control abuse. A black market has since developed, apparently in both cases since you can buy a GAC through some vendors (according to a previous poster here).

My biggest beef is with the ADA and the inability for corporations to legally request documentation.

It's used in so many other areas of every day life, but NOT here...

I don't think Disney has a solution or could possibly come up with one.

 

[flynnibus]

If you take away the incentive to abuse.. the problem solves itself.

Being able to skip 180min line for TSM will always create an incentive for abuse. I'm unsure of how you would be able to remove an incentive.

Simple - you don't get to skip the 180min line. You get to wait 180min somewhere that accommodates your needs. This can be achieved with return stamps, FP-clones, etc. There is nothing in the law that says 'you get front of the line' or 'you never have to wait'. These are DISNEY's actions, and not the only ones available.

You don't have to require documentation to catch people admitting they lie

really?

Yes really - haven't you ever noticed that those who game a system, often flaunt it? Force the same person to be present all the time and I bet that would cut down on things greatly.

Access to medicine helps a great deal of people coping with chronic pain, you could say it is a benefit... since it is not free, but a pharmacist cannot discriminate and refuse providing such medicine to valid patients

Sorry - this is a horrible analogy. One, it's not a benefit to the person who would actually prefer to be in no pain at all. Two, there is no law guaranteeing access to the drugs. The drugs are a CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE meaning only authorized people within defined limits are allowed to distribute them. Measures were not taken to control abuse, but under the premise that misuse is DANGEROUS. You'd be happy to know the ADA does require documentation when the accommodation may cause harm or increase the danger for others. (a huge section on powered vehicles around that)

My biggest beef is with the ADA and the inability for corporations to legally request documentation.

It's used in so many other areas of every day life, but NOT here...

Used for different reasons with different expectations of purpose.

I don't think Disney has a solution or could possibly come up with one.

People have outlined options numerous times over this thread in how to discourage abuse. Again, take away the incentive, and people stop bothering.

 

[Tom Morrow]

I'm sure they can sue for that. We live in America people here sue if there coffee is too hot. Please don't give anyone any ideas.

Sorry, I know this was a couple pages back, and off topic, but its frustrating when people bring up the McDonalds coffee lawsuit as trivial. What most people never heard is that McDonalds was heating their coffee far beyond standard hot coffee to extract more coffee from the beans and save money. Normal hot coffee would hurt... but not give you third degree burns, which was the case here.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19150_6-famous-frivolous-lawsuit-stories-that-are-total-b.s..html - I know its a comedy website, but they give sources. First entry on the list.

The thing about the gac is legally Disney can't ask what your disabity is.They have to issue it or risk being sued. The gac cant be denied due to who says what disability qualifies you to receive the card. Do you really want anyone other than a doctor or a qualified professional judging whether you or a family member is actually disabled. Say I have epilepsy and have no visible signs of illness, Disney denies a gac and I have seizure which causes a stroke, whose libel. I think Disney would rather deal with me and my family getting on a few rides with no wait than have to deal with a multi million dollar lawsuit that could be avoided. What everyone doesn't understand is Disney is only protecting themselves from lawsuits. If their was another way to do they probably would. But how who makes the decision

Its important to remember that there are ways to fight this issue without needing to ask for proof of illness or anything. All they need to do is change the procedure so that it does not allow for instant, unlimited access - example, the "schedule your return time" option.

Equity spiel?

ITS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE LAW

To try to ensure those that are disabled are not discriminated against for their disability and to try to provide reasonable accommodation for them so they can be as equal as possible.

People here are being absurd simply because Disney is going ABOVE AND BEYOND the law. If you want to cry over 'its not fair' take it to Disney.. not the disabled, not the law itself.

Key word is equal. As in, disabled guests should be treated as equal and have to wait the same amount of time to board an attraction as non-disabled guests, not be given a card that acts as an instant, unlimited Fastpass.

 

[ddbowdoin]

Sorry, I know this was a couple pages back, and off topic, but its frustrating when people bring up the McDonalds coffee lawsuit as trivial. What most people never heard is that McDonalds was heating their coffee far beyond standard hot coffee to extract more coffee from the beans and save money. Normal hot coffee would hurt... but not give you third degree burns, which was the case here.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19150_6-famous-frivolous-lawsuit-stories-that-are-total-b.s..html - I know its a comedy website, but they give sources. First entry on the list.Its important to remember that there are ways to fight this issue without needing to ask for proof of illness or anything. All they need to do is change the procedure so that it does not allow for instant, unlimited access - example, the "schedule your return time" option.
Key word is equal. As in, disabled guests should be treated as equal and have to wait the same amount of time to board an attraction as non-disabled guests, not be given a card that acts as an instant, unlimited Fastpass.

this quickly turns into the "why shouldn't my child be able to experience the attractions... wah wah wah" line

 

[flynnibus]

Key word is equal. As in, disabled guests should be treated as equal and have to wait the same amount of time to board an attraction as non-disabled guests, not be given a card that acts as an instant, unlimited Fastpass.

Yes, which is why the problem lies with DISNEY and their choices. Driven by their laziness where they prefer to just bow to the customer at all costs (in the name of customer experience) - opening the door to abuse. It doesn't matter if it's resort mugs, GAC, parking avoiders, pool hoppers, whatever.. the problems exist because people abuse the opening Disney leaves.

 

[Lucky]

Key word is equal. As in, disabled guests should be treated as equal and have to wait the same amount of time to board an attraction as non-disabled guests, not be given a card that acts as an instant, unlimited Fastpass.

This clears things up. So it's not the possibility of abuse by liars and fakers that some of you are really so concerned about, but rather that you think autistic kids and other disabled people have it too easy under the current system.

 

[maxairmike]

Are you a cast member?

Had to bring this back up to back up the CMs (or friends of CMs) that seem to be posting somewhat solid stats and statements in this thread. As someone who knows people at every Mountain, Test Track, Soarin, Toy Story, and countless other smaller and major attractions that use FastPass as well as Guest Relations, what has been stated is correct. I've both seen it happen while talking with my friends at greeter/return positions and heard plenty of after-work stories. I've also worked (and currently work) at other parks with slightly different approaches to this issue. It is an industry-wide problem, although the Disney parks seem to have the worst of it. Most other systems I've seen or worked with function similar to a FastPass or come back when the wait time has elapsed approach, and I think that would be enough of a change to curtail the kind of "destructive" (to the intended function of the system) abuse to much more tolerable levels.

This is a very real issue and causes more headaches and operational issues than most are likely to realize. Disney's desire to avoid confrontation at practically any cost (which helped inflate the problem to current levels) must be faced if they truly want to fix the issue. There is no "easy" way to go about it, there will be fallout and many angry guests Disney will have to deal with, but it will be a necessary step.

To those who have legitimate needs for GACs, know that the animosity is directed towards the known abuse, not legitimate needs. Don't let it discourage you.

 

[maxairmike]

This clears things up. So it's not the possibility of abuse by liars and fakers that some of you are really so concerned about, but rather that you think autistic kids and other disabled people have it too easy under the current system.

I don't speak for the intended person here, but personally my beef with the system(s) across the board for guest service is not that they provide above and beyond what they need to, it is that people have started to become conditioned that if they have some kind of issue, they automatically get preferential treatment of some kind. The result is lawsuits and trying to get things changed so that preferential treatment is forced/enforced when they encounter an instance where "equality" is granted, which isn't enough for them. I know most would gladly trade their disability for the daily inconveniences the rest of us face, but then there are those that have come to expect that they get anything and everything they desire because of their disabled status. That is what irks a lot of people. It hasn't been about equality for the vocal minority that always seems to be the loudest, it has seemingly become about preferential treatment.

 

[Rasvar]

With the new FastPass + system, I'm not really sure why they can't just have a special RFID coded GAC where you go to the Fastpass entrance, run the card and it assigns a return time of Standby line - 10 minutes. It should only able to be active for one attraction at a time. By doing this, it would not throw off any of the Fastpass algorithms. Plus, they can still get regular Fastpass and Fastpass + as applicable. This eliminates a lot of the value to lying to get a GAC but still allows for accommodation of those truly in need.

 

[Lucky]

With the new FastPass + system, I'm not really sure why they can't just have a special RFID coded GAC where you go to the Fastpass entrance, run the card and it assigns a return time of Standby line - 10 minutes. It should only able to be active for one attraction at a time. By doing this, it would not throw off any of the Fastpass algorithms. Plus, they can still get regular Fastpass and Fastpass + as applicable. This eliminates a lot of the value to lying to get a GAC but still allows for accommodation of those truly in need.

Yes, hopefully the new system will eventually reduce time spent waiting in lines for everyone, with the beneficial side effect of reducing incentives to cheat, as you suggest.

 

[TP2000]

You should browse the technical assistance manual for title III which helps translate the law and accessibility guidelines
http://www.ada.gov/taman3.html

I breezed, but didn't exactly browse. It's long.

And all I got was what I've been previously led to believe; the ADA laws have "reasonable accomodation" mandates regarding physical "barrier removal" (stairs, narrow doors, steep grades, etc.), but nothing about providing chairs or shade for people in line.

If you can't wait in line and need to sit down in the line, get a wheelchair. It's a chair with wheels that rolls along with you through the line. If you can't be in the sun and you chose to visit a theme park in Florida where the sun is visible, get a floppy hat. There's no law that says amusement parks have to provide shaded queues, and a business has to provide a seat for anyone who can't wait in line. If there was, Six Flags, my local Target on a Saturday afternoon, and the DMV would have all been shut down a decade ago.

Disney has met or exceeded the ADA laws by simply making their queues wheelchair accesible. On old rides like Peter Pan where the queue isn't accesible, you can be let in through the exit in your wheelchair.

Disney has made their accomodation under the ADA by making any of their queues or public facilities built in the last 15 years wheelchair accesible, and then coming up with alternate access through the exit on the older facilities that can't be retrofitted. Done. The GAC is just a customer service courtesy above and beyond what they already needed to do to meet the ADA laws.

There's no law that says they have to continue issuing GAC cards to people not in wheelchairs, just like there's no law that says they have to continue giving you a free button on your birthday.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney has made their accomodation under the ADA by making any of their queues or public facilities built in the last 15 years wheelchair accesible, and then coming up with alternate access through the exit on the older facilities that can't be retrofitted. Done.

Simply put.. you're wrong. I've pointed you to resources you can do the research yourself if you don't believe me, but I'm not going to spoon feed it to you or do your work for you.

If it were only about wheelchairs - there would be no reason to mention mental disabilities at all in the entire law or other ailments.

The lead in paragraph you should try reading and reading and reading again until it starts to click is this one:

Title III protects three categories of individuals with disabilities:

1) Individuals who have a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities;

2) Individuals who have a record of a physical or mental impairment that substantially limited one or more of the individual's major life activities; and

3) Individuals who are regarded as having such an impairment, whether they have the impairment or not.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney has made their accomodation under the ADA by making any of their queues or public facilities built in the last 15 years wheelchair accesible, and then coming up with alternate access through the exit on the older facilities that can't be retrofitted. Done

Because I'm feeling generous.. or maybe want to just give you some more rope...

Here's another cite for you

III-2.2000 Physical or mental impairments. The first category of persons covered by the definition of an individual with a disability is restricted to those with "physical or mental impairments. " Physical impairments include --

1) Physiological disorders or conditions;

2) Cosmetic disfigurement; or

3) Anatomical loss

affecting one or more of the following body systems: neurological; musculoskeletal; special sense organs (which would include speech organs that are not respiratory such as vocal cords, soft palate, tongue, etc.); respiratory, including speech organs; cardiovascular; reproductive; digestive; genitourinary; hemic and lymphatic; skin; and endocrine.

Specific examples of physical impairments include orthopedic, visual, speech, and hearing impairments, cerebral palsy, epilepsy, muscular dystrophy, multiple sclerosis, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, HIV disease (symptomatic or asymptomatic), tuberculosis, drug addiction, and alcoholism.

Mental impairments include mental or psychological disorders, such as mental retardation, organic brain syndrome, emotional or mental illness, and specific learning disabilities.

Would you like to explain to the class how wheelchair accessibility would accommodate people with speech problems, digestive problems, skin issues, and hearing impairments?

What you should be focusing on is what constitutes an impairment of 'a major life activity'.

Which leads you to this citation..

III-2.4000 Substantial limitation of a major life activity. To constitute a "disability," a condition must substantially limit a major life activity. Major life activities include such activities as caring for one's self, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning, and working.

When does an impairment "substantially limit" a major life activity? There is no absolute standard for determining when an impairment is a substantial limitation. Some impairments obviously or by their nature substantially limit the ability of an individual to engage in a major life activity.

ILLUSTRATION 1: A person who is deaf is substantially limited in the major life activity of hearing. A person with a minor hearing impairment, on the other hand, may not be substantially limited.

ILLUSTRATION 2: A person with traumatic brain injury may be substantially limited in the major life activities of caring for one's self, learning, and working because of memory deficit, confusion, contextual difficulties, and inability to reason appropriately.

An impairment substantially interferes with the accomplishment of a major life activity when the individual's important life activities are restricted as to the conditions, manner, or duration under which they can be performed in comparison to most people.

ILLUSTRATION 1: A person with a minor vision impairment, such as 20/40 vision, does not have a substantial impairment of the major life activity of seeing.

ILLUSTRATION 2: A person who can walk for 10 miles continuously is not substantially limited in walking merely because, on the eleventh mile, he or she begins to experience pain, because most people would not be able to walk eleven miles without experiencing some discomfort.

Are "temporary" mental or physical impairments covered by title III? Yes, if the impairment substantially limits a major life activity. The issue of whether a temporary impairment is significant enough to be a disability must be resolved on a case-by-case basis, taking into consideration both the duration (or expected duration) of the impairment and the extent to which it actually limits a major life activity of the affected individual.

ILLUSTRATION: During a house fire, M received burns affecting his hands and arms. While it is expected that, with treatment, M will eventually recover full use of his hands, in the meantime he is substantially limited in performing basic tasks required to care for himself such as eating and dressing. Because M's burns are expected to substantially limit a major life activity (caring for one's self) for a significant period of time, M would be considered to have a disability covered by title III.

If a person's impairment is greatly lessened or eliminated through the use of aids or devices, would the person still be considered an individual with a disability? Whether a person has a disability is determined without regard to the availability of mitigating measures, such as reasonable modifications, auxiliary aids and services, services or devices of a personal nature, or medication. For example, a person with severe hearing loss is substantially limited in the major life activity of hearing, even though the loss may be improved through the use of a hearing aid. Likewise, persons with impairments, such as epilepsy or diabetes, that, if untreated, would substantially limit a major life activity, are still individuals with disabilities under the ADA, even if the debilitating consequences of the impairment are controlled by medication.

 

[Yensid1974]

Well, just another quick note on this issue from a CM. I saw firsthand the FP+ test everyone knows we have going on right now and I have some thoughts. After finally seeing the system in use and up close and personal, I think that we will in the not too distant future see FP+ be used instead of the majority of GAC cards. There is tremendous potential for what they can do with this system and I went from very skeptical to somewhat excited for things to get going with it. I know, some will think I'm just towing the company line for FP+, but I do believe now after seeing it that there are going to be some great uses for it that will help our non-GAC using guests as well as our GAC users. Of course, there will still be those who need to work outside of the FP+ system (w/c, ecv, stroller as w/c) but I think things have a big potential to get better as far as this issue goes as FP+ comes online and has time to mature.

 

[DisneyJoe]

well to park in a handicap spot you need to have a tag which requires a dr's note.

In NJ, all you need is a Doctor's signature on a motor vehicle department form, and as has been shown by many an investigative news reporter, many just sign. Then once the placard is given to the driver, it is good for years, and can be used by anyone. My wife and son could use mine if they wished, nothing would stop them.

 

[alissafalco]

My husband was in line today for Space MT and he said he saw a CM turn away a man with a GAC. He heard the CM tell the man that the GAC is for the child he's with and that the child has to be with him for him to be able to use the pass. He heard the man say his daughter was with his wife. The man turned and walked away. I was happy to hear that this happened.