Planet Earth to take over The Land?

[jakeman]

Nah ... if you like it better now that's your feelings/opinion.

I enjoy the Nemo clamshells and I like the Turtle Talk technology ... it is kewl until the 117th time you hear duuuuuuuddde.

But there is no denying that the current incarnation of the Seas is a much less ambitious place.

I can definitely agree with all of this.

Although, ambitiousness for the sake of it alone is not always a good thing.

I enjoyed Sea Base Alpha as a kid. It was very Star Trek underwater. I also understand that I was a giant dork growing up and can see how that does not have as broad of an appeal.

Nemo has such a broader appeal though. I agree they took the safe path, but maybe in this case, the safe path was the right one.

Not defending one over the other. I like them both.

 

[JEANYLASER]

I love that idea! It's awesome! I can't wait to see it!

 

[markjohns1]

I think the biggest problem Epcot/Disney had was that when Epcot opened, and through most of the next decade, everything there seemed so cool and futuristic, because no one had seen things like that before, at least not in a way where they could relate it to their everyday life (which is what made Epcot so great, IMO). However, the "future" came faster than anyone at Disney planned, and within those same 10 years, pretty much all the "cool futuristic" stuff was a part of our everyday life...and it's only going faster now...how could Disney possibly keep ahead of that kind of timeline? The cost would be astronomical...

That is one of the main problems with anything dealing with the future. Keep it too realistic and "educational," and it often becomes outdated and stale too quickly. Make it too fantastical and it will be loathed for not being in line with the "vision of EPCOT Center." I think it's key to find a happy medium where there are fantastical ideas rooted in current ideas/theories/etc. Pretty much exactly as JT indicated:

No, they just have to be smarter about which technologies they feature and how they present them. For example, converting the Space pavilion into a futuristic "vacation" to Mars experience isn't likely to become obsolete any time soon.

It's just too costly to constantly update pavilions/attractions to keep them "futuristic." A sci-fi spin is definitely needed to keep the pavilions ahead of the curve. I've always thought that Innoventions should be the overly organic, constantly changing pavilion. To me, Innoventions should almost have a tech trade show feel to it (which I felt like it did when it first opened).

As for the OT, a Planet Earth/Disneynature replacement would be excellent. That footage is stunning. I never get tired of seeing it, especially on a big screen.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I can definitely agree with all of this.

Although, ambitiousness for the sake of it alone is not always a good thing.

I enjoyed Sea Base Alpha as a kid. It was very Star Trek underwater. I also understand that I was a giant dork growing up and can see how that does not have as broad of an appeal.

Nemo has such a broader appeal though. I agree they took the safe path, but maybe in this case, the safe path was the right one.

Not defending one over the other. I like them both.

Exactly! It captured the "EPCOT Future Spirit" very nicely. Made it all feel real. I think that's what I miss most in TLS. It's no longer immersive.

 

[hrcollectibles]

I don`t get it. Plenty to look out at. Seabase Alpha had one of the best storylines and associated theming ever to come out of WED. Now you descend under the sea with Nemo, leave your clambmobile and hey! You can see daylight through the glass exit doors straight away. Illusion crushed.

I loved The Living Seas. I miss the original que line with the mini version of the Nautilus ( 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea is one of my Favorite Films) The Pre-Show film (and it Rained and rained and rained the Deluge) still gives me goose bumps

 

[jakeman]

Exactly! It captured the "EPCOT Future Spirit" very nicely. Made it all feel real. I think that's what I miss most in TLS. It's no longer immersive.

I don't really miss it though. It had its time. By the time they did the overlay, it was looking very 80's version of the future.

Too me it is an apple to oranges comparison. Nemo is different to me and can't really be compared to the original.

I don't think we can argue that the popularity of the pavilion has increased since the Nemo overlay though.

Also, based on nothing more than my own observations (which I'm sure someone will contradict) there is more interaction and learn going on in the Nemo overlay than in the waning days of TLS.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I don't really miss it though. It had its time. By the time they did the overlay, it was looking very 80's version of the future.

Too me it is an apple to oranges comparison. Nemo is different to me and can't really be compared to the original.

I don't think we can argue that the popularity of the pavilion has increased since the Nemo overlay though.

Also, based on nothing more than my own observations (which I'm sure someone will contradict) there is more interaction and learn going on in the Nemo overlay than in the waning days of TLS.

Agreed...Hence the need to upgrade it to something relevant. Future World Relevant.

Interaction...Yes. People seem to be staying in the pav for a longer time. Learning...Not really. Most of the plaques are really basic Marine Bio factoids. Half the time I see them skipped over.:shrug:

Bring the Star Trek Future back to the pavilion I say...and leave Nemo and his Turtle there too...They could easily coexist.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

I enjoyed Sea Base Alpha as a kid. It was very Star Trek underwater. I also understand that I was a giant dork growing up and can see how that does not have as broad of an appeal.

I always thought, were it more successful, SeaQuest DSV would have been a perfect tie-in/overlay for The Living Seas, because that is almost exactly what the pavilion should be about to me.

That is one of the main problems with anything dealing with the future. Keep it too realistic and "educational," and it often becomes outdated and stale too quickly. Make it too fantastical and it will be loathed for not being in line with the "vision of EPCOT Center." I think it's key to find a happy medium where there are fantastical ideas rooted in current ideas/theories/etc. Pretty much exactly as JT indicated:It's just too costly to constantly update pavilions/attractions to keep them "futuristic." A sci-fi spin is definitely needed to keep the pavilions ahead of the curve. I've always thought that Innoventions should be the overly organic, constantly changing pavilion. To me, Innoventions should almost have a tech trade show feel to it (which I felt like it did when it first opened).

I think the park was built with the foundation they need to keep things a kind of timeless futurism. What would be truly costly to update on a consistent basis would be the infrastructure, but there's absolutely no need for that. Each Future World pavilion has an abstract architecture that isn't meant as a literal interpretation of how buildings will look in the future, but more to convey a sense of futurism in general that will never go out-of-date. They were mostly all cleverly designed so that the show inside could be updated with minimal expense. Universe of Energy, for example, would just simply need some new footage shot every once in a while and some new narration, and inserted into the existing film.

 

[Figment632]

[Bring the Star Trek Future back to the pavilion I say...and leave Nemo and his Turtle there too...They could easily coexist.[/quote]

Yes you are correct there is room for bot tech and Nemo in The Living Seas.

 

[MKCP 1985]

I remember the opening of The Living Seas - the network TV special, the movie, the hydrolators, the sea cabs - all of it. The biggest problem was it took forever to get in and out of the pavilion. There were many times I would have preferred to just go straight in and watch some fish for awhile and now I can!

I prefer the current set up. There is no shattered illusion unless you are self-imposing the former "we are taking hydrolators to the bottom of the ocean" storyline. You won't hear any of that in any current pavilion spiel.

Face it - we lost boring hydrolators (yes, boring!) and a long movie (and it rained, and it rained, and it rained . . . an utter deluge) for Nemo and Friends.

From where I sit, that's a worthwhile trade.


. . . but wasn't this thread about the Land? :lookaroun

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I remember the opening of The Living Seas - the network TV special, the movie, the hydrolators, the sea cabs - all of it. The biggest problem was it took forever to get in and out of the pavilion. There were many times I would have preferred to just go straight in and watch some fish for awhile and now I can!

You coulda easily gone in the back way as one of the "going up" hydrolators opened.:lol: We did that a few times.

 

[MKCP 1985]

You coulda easily gone in the back way as one of the "going up" hydrolators opened.:lol: We did that a few times.

Those years were the years we were trying to teach our kids to play by the rules.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

I remember the opening of The Living Seas - the network TV special, the movie, the hydrolators, the sea cabs - all of it.

Hopefully that will end up on YouTube one of these days.

Face it - we lost boring hydrolators (yes, boring!) and a long movie (and it rained, and it rained, and it rained . . . an utter deluge) for Nemo and Friends.

Whatever, the hydrolators were awesome! The movie wasn't too bad, either. "Imagine a world of amazing technological creativity..."

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Those years were the years we were trying to teach our kids to play by the rules.

Was it frowned upon by CM's? Never was for us...

 

[Jasonflz]

Circle of Life really is outdated however, I think Disney should mention polluting if a new film comes in. It is an important issue.

 

[WDW1974]

The bottom line with the Seas is they had a choice of doing something big and complex and cutting edge ... and they went with cartoon fish for the pavilion instead.

Say what you like about its popularity (everything from WalMart to W to wrestling is -- or has been -- very popular) but that doesn't make something good.

Not saying Nemo is 'bad' ... it isn't, it actually is good IMHO in its context.

But Living Seas was so much more ambitious and cutting edge and fit the EPCOT Center concept, which most assuredly had NOTHING to do with toon fishes, sharks and turtles.

Sure the pavilion was dated ... the pavilions were designed with the idea they'd need minor updating regularly and major updating every 10 years (hence the 10-year contracts signed by sponsors). Disney isn't the best corporate partner and when UT pulled out, Disney opted to not invest a penny in the place.

So the question isn't whether Seas of 2009 is markedly improved from Seas of 2003.

The question is why can't (or won't) Disney do cutting edge amazing immersive experiences at EC in the 21st century when it could and would and did in the 20th.

You really all know the answer and it goes back to the same economic issues and the desire to spend as little as possible.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

The bottom line with the Seas is they had a choice of doing something big and complex and cutting edge ... and they went with cartoon fish for the pavilion instead.

Say what you like about its popularity (everything from WalMart to W to wrestling is -- or has been -- very popular) but that doesn't make something good.

Not saying Nemo is 'bad' ... it isn't, it actually is good IMHO in its context.

But Living Seas was so much more ambitious and cutting edge and fit the EPCOT Center concept, which most assuredly had NOTHING to do with toon fishes, sharks and turtles.

Sure the pavilion was dated ... the pavilions were designed with the idea they'd need minor updating regularly and major updating every 10 years (hence the 10-year contracts signed by sponsors). Disney isn't the best corporate partner and when UT pulled out, Disney opted to not invest a penny in the place.

So the question isn't whether Seas of 2009 is markedly improved from Seas of 2003.

The question is why can't (or won't) Disney do cutting edge amazing immersive experiences at EC in the 21st century when it could and would and did in the 20th.

You really all know the answer and it goes back to the same economic issues and the desire to spend as little as possible.

Aha! As always...You understand what the Fanboys (Fanbois for you) want. A futuristic TLS is very possible in this day and age. We seem to be doing more and more resarch on The Seas in relation to the environmental challenges we face today. It would be very nice to see current issues in the Seas...that's one area I think that the original Pav did not cover. Maybe that's why it became dated?

~no tagline? I like those!~:lol::lookaroun

 

[ChrisFL]

I thought the original Living Seas was amazing....especially the lead-in from the opening film, where it shows the seabase and the hydrolators, then you go through the door, and you're there! Ready to go under the ocean to see the future

 

[WDW1974]

Aha! As always...You understand what the Fanboys (Fanbois for you) want. A futuristic TLS is very possible in this day and age. We seem to be doing more and more resarch on The Seas in relation to the environmental challenges we face today. It would be very nice to see current issues in the Seas...that's one area I think that the original Pav did not cover. Maybe that's why it became dated?

It became dated because the future is a constantly moving target. It's a problem that goes back to the original Tomorrowland at DL and right on to the future.

But ultimately a sea base on the ocean floor is still quite futuristic even in 2009. And there were so many ways to update the Seas to reflect that.

They chose cartoon fish.

~no tagline? I like those!~:lol::lookaroun

I'm sorry to disappoint. Today was a busy day on the work front and was posting around downtime, which likely wasn't a good thing for many reasons.

But I'll bring 'em back.

~Tuna goes bad if you just let it sit too!~

 

[MichWolv]

I visited The Living Seas right before and right after the Nemo overlay. The story was better in the original version, but everything else is better in the Nemo version.

I'll welcome any change to the horrific Circle of Life movie in the Land Pavilion. I don't care whether the new version contains Disney characters or not; I just want a film that's not simple-minded and dull.

Sounds great I havent done Circle of Life in about 4 years, it is long over do for a change.

Did the Circle of Life yesterday for the first time in 5 years or so. I gotta admit, I really enjoyed it. Synergy with the characters while still the original Epcot feel. Sure, it's simple-minded, but my five year old said afterwards..."We learned about recycling in that movie!"

Aha! As always...You understandl what the Fanboys (Fanbois for you) want. A futuristic TLS is very possible in this day and age. We seem to be doing more and more resarch on The Seas in relation to the environmental challenges we face today. It would be very nice to see current issues in the Seas...that's one area I think that the original Pav did not cover. Maybe that's why it became dated?

~no tagline? I like those!~:lol::lookaroun

It became dated, IMHO, because there is only so much you can do with the big aquarium, and while the acquarium was way ahead of its time in 1982, it has been surpassed many times over. Disney needs to get really creative to bring the edutainment back while keeping it fun. Talking to divers while they're in the tank would be a start, but that pavilion has challenges.