Pirates: WDW vs DLR.

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Those Wonderful World of Color episodes are some of my all-time favorites! The best one was the second one from Spring, 1967 just after the ride opened. Walt had actually passed away five months earlier, but they used footage of him explaining the ride from a 1965 episode of Wonderful World of Color, so it still had plenty of Walt in it.

There's so much great footage, and some really funny lines in this episode! Anyone who has more than a passing interest in the Pirates of the Caribbean attractions simply must watch Walt Disney explain the ride and debut it to the American television audience. And it's in Living Color, no less! :sohappy:

Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color introduces Pirates of the Caribbean - April, 1967
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pT36SYP5T4

Yep, i still have that episode on tape! That's the first real tip-off that our version of Pirates was heavily downsized and changed for the worse too lol! Part 2 of that video contains a full and surprisingly solid quality ride-through of the attraction. All my childhood i was wondering what was up with the double drops, swamp scene, extra skeleton scenes, and extra ending sequences. Everything felt so much different (and better). Glad i finally got to experience a version that was truly worthy (Paris). I still hope to visit the one at Disneyland someday (though might not ever get to).

I would not complain if they closed the WDW Pirates for a year or even more to gut and redo the attraction to be more like DL or Paris (preferably the latter) complete with the Blue Bayou cafe. It's something i'd be willing to do without for a while to see it happen. Won't ever happen though i'm sure.:rolleyes:

Pirates is my favorite attraction to ride at the end of the day. It's reasonably lengthy (at least when you disregard the Disneyland versions) and isn't too thrilling but still not fully calm. Can't explain it, but the atmosphere makes me feel happy. Even with our gimped version at WDW.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Glad i finally got to experience a version that was truly worthy (Paris). I still hope to visit the one at Disneyland someday (though might not ever get to).

Cheer up, as Walt says at the 3:40 mark of that video...

"Anything is possible at Disneyland!" -Walt Disney, 1965

A decade ago I never thought I would ever see Tokyo Disneyland. But then life changed, and I've been to Japan several times now with several visits to Tokyo Disneyland.

Speaking of Tokyo, when they built their own Disneyland in the early 1980's, they had a choice in picking off the best of the best in regards to shows and attractions. Guess which version of Pirates they built for Tokyo? Yup, Anaheim's with the Blue Bayou restaurant and Bayou Scene and extended Cavern Scene and ending Arsenal Scene with the "Going Up The Waterfall" ending. Tokyo even got an edited version of New Orleans Square to surround this signature E Ticket attraction.

Anaheim? Nope! Tokyo Disneyland's Pirates of the Caribbean
pirates_exterior.jpg


As for Paris, it does have a really neat take on the classic attraction. The technology they used, particularly the sword-fighting and rope-swinging pirates, are a really great way to plus up that ride. I'm amazed that those two animatronic scenes haven't been added to the versions in Anaheim, Orlando, or Tokyo yet. :confused:
 

the-reason14

Well-Known Member
No competition really. After riding the DL pirates, I couldn't help but feel jipped with the MK version. Even if you can argue the story is better told in the MK, I still rather have a longer ride with more scenes for a ride than a cliff notes version.
 

The Duck

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I totally 100% agree, Paris is by far the best version of Pirates. I feel extremely fortunate that i was able to ride it several times as a child. A privilege i'm unlikely to ever get again, but i have fond memories of it. It's probably tied with my favorite ride of all time- Splash Mountain (which is apparently in dire need of maintenance at the moment and lacking the experience, so Pirates at Paris would probably win in its present condition).

I feel that Paris' makes the most sense with the storytelling by far, the events unfolding in chronological order of actual history. It made far more sense than going backwards in time in the original. And i also like the lift hill in the beginning (which is better themed anyways). Queue is better than even WDW's, which automatically makes it better than DL's. It's also got better and more elaborate scenery and special effects/more advanced stuff (i guess since it's newer). It feels like Imagineers were given full control over the project and outdid themselves. It's a truly stunning experience and i give my eternal gratitude to all that were involved in the ride's building.

I will admit that i have never personally experienced Pirates in Disneyland CA, but i have seen more than enough full videos of the ride to see that it's infinitely better than WDW but not as good as Paris' (including the original "making of" Disneyland videos presented by Walt himself on World of Color which contained a ride through. I've got the gist of it (though i would of course love to ride it someday to fully experience it). It's funny that even at an extremely young age i felt the WDW experience was a little lackluster after seeing the WoC making of the DL version. Made me a bit irritated that we got such a heavily gimped version.
I agree 100% regarding the DLP Pirates. I hope to see it myself one day but from what I've read and seen on the net, it's the best version yet. The storyline as well as the rest of the effects are superior to the other three and it employs some of the best elements of both U.S. versions. I've often wished that WDW had a longer, fuller POTC but I still love the short version regardless.
 

Mukta

Well-Known Member
My argument is that while the WDW version is considerably shorter, I believe that it's a more clear, concise example of Disney story telling. The WDW queue basically achieves the same purpose as the swamp, skeletons and 1 of the waterfalls. Granted, a longer ride is more fun than any themed queue but the end result is achieved. Disney story telling.

This is how I have always interpreted the DL version.
You board a boat in New Orleans and head out into the Bayou. Your boat travels far (the drops) and you land in the Caribbean. While there, you stumble upon an old Pirates' Lair. The pirates have killed each other fighting over treasure. The treasure is now cursed. Because we have seen the treasure, we are also cursed.
The result of this curse? Pirates attack the island we are visiting. They kidnap, pillage and set the island on fire. We escape while they are drunk.

The End.

I like the DL version the best, then the DLP version and last the WDW version.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Paris' is the best when all the animatronics are working, but DLP has a worse track record than any other Disney park.

Between DL and WDW, DL wins for its longer length and mysterious entrance, but WDW's queue beats the snot out of DL's, and does a decent job setting up the story. The extra cavern and skeleton scenes in DL are extraneous, as you move through too quickly to appreciate the details. But the additional scenes at the end—the burning wood and shooting pirates—are great. The show scenes actually seem bigger in Florida; I'm not sure about the set pieces, but the waterways are definitely wider in Florida.

Does this make WDW's horrible? No, it's still a great ride; it's just not as grand as the original. It's a tradeoff: DL has the better POTC ride, but WDW has the better queue. IMO, POTC is the only attraction that's significantly better in California. Indiana Jones can't be compared (really, Dinosaur is too different) and Space Mt in CA is boooooooooring. :snore:
 

cheezbat

Well-Known Member
Paris' is the best when all the animatronics are working, but DLP has a worse track record than any other Disney park.

Between DL and WDW, DL wins for its longer length and mysterious entrance, but WDW's queue beats the snot out of DL's, and does a decent job setting up the story. The extra cavern and skeleton scenes in DL are extraneous, as you move through too quickly to appreciate the details. But the additional scenes at the end—the burning wood and shooting pirates—are great. The show scenes actually seem bigger in Florida; I'm not sure about the set pieces, but the waterways are definitely wider in Florida.

Does this make WDW's horrible? No, it's still a great ride; it's just not as grand as the original. It's a tradeoff: DL has the better POTC ride, but WDW has the better queue. IMO, POTC is the only attraction that's significantly better in California. Indiana Jones can't be compared (really, Dinosaur is too different) and Space Mt in CA is boooooooooring. :snore:

Whoa...hating on DL's Space Mountain? That thing is WAY smoother and more up to date and entertaining than the garbage known as the 'original' Space Mountain. MK's is so old. Even with the redo it's still one very bumpy and low tech ride in comparison.
I'd take most of DL's versions of rides over ours...except for Tower of Terror, Star Tours, and Haunted Mansion.
 

Wilt Dasney

Well-Known Member
I'd take most of DL's versions of rides over ours...except for Tower of Terror, Star Tours, and Haunted Mansion.

Don't forget Splash Mountain. In my opinion, Splash and ToT are probably the only two attractions where no reasonable argument can be made that DL has the better of the two. (Maaaaaybe HM with the recent upgrades in Florida, but even then the New Orleans Square facade offers something unique that Florida can't match.)

As for Pirates...it may put me in the minority, but I'm not convinced the bayou and the long skeleton setup sequence do a better job setting up the story than the fort in WDW. It all felt a little extraneous to me my first time on the ride (although it could have been because I knew in the back of my mind that all that stuff had been included to "pad" the ride and get the track to some open real estate). I still have a sneaking Florida bias on this one that says the fort -- with its exterior suggesting the whole ride could have taken place "right here" -- does a better job setting up the whole thing than the rigmarole in Anaheim, which seems to require a bit of a psychological remove from the exterior to get you to the story.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Maaaaaybe HM with the recent upgrades in Florida, but even then the New Orleans Square facade offers something unique that Florida can't match.

Gonna have to say i totally disagree about the facade. On the basis that the Anaheim facade doesn't even look striking at all. It looks like a normal house, nothing really out of the ordinary really. WDW's though, it's like it was made with the intention of appearing exactly like a haunted house should. Creepy gothic style.

Anaheim (i might be inclined to mistake it for a shop or random house if i didn't know it was the HM)-
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Haunted_Mansion_Exterior.JPG

WDW (now THAT is creepy and definitely what i'd consider eerie and possibly haunted)-
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/The_Haunted_Mansion.jpg

I'd also say that other parks seem to agree with making their mansions LOOK abandoned and haunted. Tokyo and DLP both designed their houses to look distinctly creepy (Tokyo taking WDW's design).

As for the queue vs ride discussion for Pirates, i've gotta say that the ride experience is far more important than a fancy queue. Ideal scenario- you get both (as in Paris). But if you made me choose between-
1- Having a basic bare-bone queue with no theming of any sort to match the ride, but have the ride lengthy and amazing
2- Or having a well-themed queue that fits the atmosphere but the ride experience is a great deal shorter with missing scenes and other elements.

I'm going to pick #1 every time. The queue helps yes, but perspective at Disney would lead most people i think to choose the overall superior ride experience. At Disneyland, you're getting a much longer ride with tons of extra scenes (and extended scenes) and even an extra drop. #1 for sure. But yeah, choice #3 (Paris) is a no brainer if it's factored in. Paris Pirates forever!;)

I've also got no nostalgia talking by any means or bias. I went on WDW's Pirates MANY times before going on DLP's or seeing Anaheim's version. They're both just THAT much better than WDW's, no contest.
 

Wilt Dasney

Well-Known Member
Gonna have to say i totally disagree about the facade. On the basis that the Anaheim facade doesn't even look striking at all. It looks like a normal house, nothing really out of the ordinary really.

That's precisely what makes it appealing to me. Walt made a big push to keep the outside looking well manicured and maintained as a deliberate contrast to the disrepair inside. I'm not saying it makes it better than the MK's Mansion (the only other version I've seen in person) because there is an undeniable creepiness that surrounds the walk up to the Liberty Square house, but I think it does add a unique charm that can't be found outside Disneyland. Basically, I really dig the understated vibe around the bayou manor.
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
OP, you make an interesting point. I would agree that Disneyland's Pirates far surpasses the MK's in terms of impressiveness and overall ride experience. I would also agree that MK's is much clearer in delivering its story. However, that's not to say that Disneyland's doesn't have a cohesive story of its own - the two versions are just structured differently.

Disneyland's version of Pirates implies a definite story of going back in time to the age of piracy. When you enter the attraction and start the ride, you're in the setting of 19th century New Orleans. From the New Orleans Square facade to the banjo-strummin', gator-swimmin', man on the back porch Blue Bayou, everything here is 100% 19th century. That all ends with the first (taller) drop, and the talking skull warning of the dangers ahead. Then you're transported to the caverns - while the time period isn't clearly established, it's still implied you're there sometime after the age of piracy, with all the skeletons suggesting that the pirates had already died, the loot already plundered. This scene may have been designed to help the mental transition between the two atmospheres of 19th century New Orleans and the age of piracy. Not until after the second drop do you reach the middle of the action. You then find yourself amongst the 18th/17th century village, with the pirates looting everyone, and the main action of the ride happening. So to sum it up, it's definitely implied you had gone back in time between the start of the ride and the end, although whether most guests pick up on this is up to debate.

WDW's storyline is, by necessity, much more compact in design, but also much clearer in its delivery. Because the ride needed to be smaller, the Imagineers wasted no time/space using the ride to suggest implicit notions of time travel. Instead, they designed it so that you enter the ride during the age of piracy. The look of Caribbean Plaza matches exactly the design of the village the pirates are sacking, and the fortress that acts as the queue ("el Castillo del Morro") further supports this setting, working to establish this 18th/17th century mood. In fact, it may actually be implied that the fortress is the very one about to be attacked by the Wicked Wench - ever notice the pirate ship in the distance as your boat is departing from the queue? Ever wonder where it was headed? ;)

In other words, the Imagineers wisely chose not to waste 1/3 of the MK version's length to establish the ride setting as Disneyland does. Instead, they used Caribbean Plaza and the fortress queue for that purpose, allowing guests to jump pretty much straight into the action once the ride began. This may have been a detriment to the ride experience, but at least it smoothes out the story. :)
 

Matt and Kelly

Well-Known Member
Pirates in Disneyland wins for me. I was just there a couple weeks ago (first time since 2008) and almost forgot how good it was having been to WDW a few times in between DL visits.

Just the ride past the Blue Bayou is awesome and the extra waterfall drop make the DL version my favorite Pirates ride.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
Option 3. Disneyland Paris.
Better than DLR's Pirates, which I didn't think was possible.

Agreed.

And Paris has a better themed restaurant attached than Anaheim/Tokyo, too. Tropical themed (to go with the Caribbean) as opposed to the look of the Blue Bayou.

There's so much about DLP's version that sets it apart.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Whoa...hating on DL's Space Mountain? That thing is WAY smoother and more up to date and entertaining than the garbage known as the 'original' Space Mountain. MK's is so old. Even with the redo it's still one very bumpy and low tech ride in comparison.
I'd take most of DL's versions of rides over ours...except for Tower of Terror, Star Tours, and Haunted Mansion.

Is DL's smoother? Yes. And it has an infinitely boring track and queue.

I'm not saying the MK's is in better shape, but I do think it's a better coaster design.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
That's precisely what makes it appealing to me. Walt made a big push to keep the outside looking well manicured and maintained as a deliberate contrast to the disrepair inside. I'm not saying it makes it better than the MK's Mansion (the only other version I've seen in person) because there is an undeniable creepiness that surrounds the walk up to the Liberty Square house, but I think it does add a unique charm that can't be found outside Disneyland. Basically, I really dig the understated vibe around the bayou manor.

Sorry, DL's HM is lousy to me. The differences are huge: there's no changing portrait in the foyer, an obvious stretching room (you definitely feel the elevator floor move), no library, no staircase, no floating Leota, no final crypt scene, old Hitchhiking Ghosts, and a more compact attic. I agree the outside is great, but it's also surprisingly small and smashed between NOS (which, FWIW, barely resembles the real New Orleans) and Splash Mountain. Plus, the show building is just as visible in DL as it is in WDW.
 

WorldKey

Member
Ah, yes. I had mentally blocked out the 'Jack Sparrow's Nightmare Before Pirates' overlay.

My vote for best Pirates goes to the one that will remove the celebrity spotting subplot.

I totally agree with that....and I give DLR my vote for best of the 2 parks. It is a classic and the Blue Bayou scene really sets the mood. but I do miss the talking parrot at WDW....unless it is back and I didn't know....
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
Sorry, DL's HM is lousy to me. The differences are huge: there's no changing portrait in the foyer, an obvious stretching room (you definitely feel the elevator floor move), no library, no staircase, no floating Leota, no final crypt scene, old Hitchhiking Ghosts, and a more compact attic. I agree the outside is great, but it's also surprisingly small and smashed between NOS (which, FWIW, barely resembles the real New Orleans) and Splash Mountain. Plus, the show building is just as visible in DL as it is in WDW.

Leota floats out at DL. Saw it two weeks ago. I just think it doesn't work very often. I WILL say that I think the seance room in DL is wayyy too bright though. It was too easy to see the wires for both Leota and all the instruments.

The more compact attic doesn't bother me, either. I think the phantom playing the piano effect works much better there in the attic than it does on the floor in the WDW version. That makes the attic a "push" to me.

Can't argue with your other points... Other than to say I think NOS looks JUST like NOLA to me. :shrug:
 

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