Pirates refurb dates released

JD2000

Well-Known Member
I feel like this part of the scene gets really overlooked. The women being auctioned off are all undesirables who cannot find love (remember that Carlos's wife was not taken out of her home in the scene prior). Let's look at the cast of characters here...

TIXesNozcIswwHf-1600x900-noPad.jpg
ap_17181584020820.jpg


From left to right we start off with an old woman who's likely a widow. The following two are traditional old maids who never found love and one is so ecstatic at the opportunity for a husband she's crying tears of joy. Then the next one is just ugly. I mean, look at that fast. NASTY!

Pirates+of+the+Caribbean+-+0089.jpg


Of course, there's also Tiny and the Redhead. With Tiny, if you look at her face and gestures, it's clear she wants to be wed. Her smile and the way her hands are posed give it away.

latest


Then the redhead's intent and desires are incredibly clear. While all the other women are in their nightgowns, the redhead got dressed, put on a corset to lift her bosom, did up her hair, and put on make up. She's a flirt who desires the pirate life (of course, now she has it) and this is only confirmed further in "Portrait of Things to Come" in the grotto.

ride-2011.jpg


The intent of this is made incredibly clear in the concept art by Marc Davis that even shows the women fawning over the pirates.

cb844fd0c788311cf83a6c5bf26d264b.jpg

Pirates-Marc-Davis-MiceChat.jpeg


There's so much depth in this scene that the new one so greatly lacks.
*laughed so hard*

Just look at that pirate's face in the second image. You will laugh every time!

:D
 

180º

Well-Known Member
Does anyone find it a little interesting that Corey Burton didn’t fill in for Paul Frees here? There is precedent for Corey Burton to refuse an assignment for a change he disagrees with. He opted not to record Haunted Mansion’s new safety spiel for this reason, so it went to another voice actor. I dare not make assumptions, but I’d be curious to know.
 

Kram Sacul

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
I feel like this part of the scene gets really overlooked. The women being auctioned off are all undesirables who cannot find love (remember that Carlos's wife was not taken out of her home in the scene prior). Let's look at the cast of characters here...

TIXesNozcIswwHf-1600x900-noPad.jpg
ap_17181584020820.jpg


From left to right we start off with an old woman who's likely a widow. The following two are traditional old maids who never found love and one is so ecstatic at the opportunity for a husband she's crying tears of joy. Then the next one is just ugly. I mean, look at that fast. NASTY!

Pirates+of+the+Caribbean+-+0089.jpg


Of course, there's also Tiny and the Redhead. With Tiny, if you look at her face and gestures, it's clear she wants to be wed. Her smile and the way her hands are posed give it away.

latest


Then the redhead's intent and desires are incredibly clear. While all the other women are in their nightgowns, the redhead got dressed, put on a corset to lift her bosom, did up her hair, and put on make up. She's a flirt who desires the pirate life (of course, now she has it) and this is only confirmed further in "Portrait of Things to Come" in the grotto.

ride-2011.jpg


The intent of this is made incredibly clear in the concept art by Marc Davis that even shows the women fawning over the pirates.

cb844fd0c788311cf83a6c5bf26d264b.jpg

Pirates-Marc-Davis-MiceChat.jpeg


There's so much depth in this scene that the new one so greatly lacks.

But TROR, HUMAN TRAFFICKING and SEX SLAVERY. Don’t you know that two or three soft people were almost mildly offended and it needed to change? What better way than to make the redhead into an EMPOWERED woman that little girls can look up to/buy. :: gag::

Disneyland will never be completed. - Bob Iger
 

JD2000

Well-Known Member
That was never my issue. Pirates may have pillaged and plundered but I've never once heard of a kidnapped individual willingly and suggestively offering themselves at a human auction. The whole scenario was ridiculous even in 1967 and over time it aged terribly.
Is it not reasonable to assume she was meant to be a prostitute?
 
Last edited:

Disney Irish

Premium Member
It only makes the scene funnier. She looks like she belongs in Twisted Sister.

Well to be honest I never found the scene funny in the first place. I saw it for what it was, pirates auctioning off people specifically women which bad not funny.

My point of this was that everyone was acting like Redd was always "hot", but she didn't get the softer more attractive face until recently.
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
Well to be honest I never found the scene funny in the first place. I saw it for what it was, pirates auctioning off people specifically women which bad not funny.

My point of this was that everyone was acting like Redd was always "hot", but she didn't get the softer more attractive face until recently.
Let's talk about the changes to the redhead for fun because I love looking at the way this attraction, and Haunted Mansion, have changed over the years.

Let's start by looking at the concept art for the redhead. Here's two different depictions from Marc Davis. They both show the redhead as much younger than she appears on the actual ride and has a very petite waist. The joke is pretty much the same in both pieces with the pirate being interested in the redhead and the redhead wanting to be noticed (though, of course, she's certainly playing hard to get in that second piece).

redhead-slave-pirates-caribbean.jpg

477px-Redhead_2.jpg


We get the same design in this miniature model as well as the life size model of the scene in the Burbank Studios in December of 1965.

Screen Shot 2018-06-13 at 8.19.47 PM.png


07_tour_auction.jpg

POTC_Model_Auction.jpg


Here's a better picture of the figure. Notice she's still all dolled up with a heavy dose of make up.

vint.jpg


Of course, though, as you pointed out, when the attraction opened in 1967, she ended up looking like... this.

7_2_67_POTC_Wench.jpg


Obviously the joke about the pirates wanting the redhead remained from the early concepts, but the design of the redhead was certainly different from the original intention. She was no longer a young maiden with a petite, attractive figure, but now she was rather wide in contrast and had awful make up. Was this part of the joke to make it seem as if the pirates wanted a disgusting woman? It's very much similar to the kind of joke you see in a movie where a man dresses in drag and then another man pursues him thinking he's a beautiful woman. The joke there, however, stems from the fact the audience knows something the man on the screen doesn't know: that woman is a man! That isn't the case here, though, and rather the rest of the women are all ugly in their own ways, too, so the idea of the pirates choosing the ugly redhead over overbite or Tiny is an odd joke. It's not that the joke doesn't work if that's what they were going for, but it's something that's strange and definitely a deviation from what the original artwork shows.

As we can see here by 1974, the look of the redhead was already changed to make her prettier and stand out, no longer looking like a man in drag. It's definitely more in line with the original concept art, but to me it's always come off as if the redhead is a a middle aged woman who's put on a lot of makeup to try to look younger.

EkTPBK-4-74-N18B.jpg


There is one last thing that should be discussed, though, and that's the Portrait of Things to Come. Located in the grotto, this painting by Marc Davis depicts a redheaded pirate with a beauty mark who certainly seems to enjoy creating in the hearts of men. Because of the backwards storytelling of Pirates of the Caribbean, confirmed now by the newest addition to the grotto, it's very safe to say this is the same redhead from the auction scene. Her figure is definitely very much in line with the first piece of concept art listed above and she's definitely much younger looking than the redhead in the official attraction.

latest


So really, what's the deal with the redhead in all of this? She starts off young and seems to be far along in the design process, even having a full model created of her, then only to have her be an older looking woman who's not very desirable in the 1967 attraction despite the grottos of that same attraction featuring this very portrait of the same character who looks visibly younger despite being title "Portrait of Things to Come." Was something lost in translation when the actual animatronic was made? I certainly would find that hard to believe. I definitely plan on looking more into why she was changed but if anyone knows more, please do share.
 

CraftyFox

Well-Known Member
WELP! Time to completely change the thread to something unrelated (Great analysis Tror BTW).
About the new scene... I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority here, but I actually enjoyed the water fall effect. Ignoring the awful Davy Jones projection. It acted as a screen between the two segments which created a sense of surprise and awe at the opening to the cave. Without it, you can see ALL the way to the ship battle scene from the caves. This removes a bit of the grand reveal of that huge show scene. I would have enjoyed it if they kept the waterfall, got rid of the Davey Jones projection, and added the new scene. That would be IDEAL in my personal opinion.
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
I feel like this part of the scene gets really overlooked. The women being auctioned off are all undesirables who cannot find love (remember that Carlos's wife was not taken out of her home in the scene prior). Let's look at the cast of characters here...

TIXesNozcIswwHf-1600x900-noPad.jpg
ap_17181584020820.jpg


From left to right we start off with an old woman who's likely a widow. The following two are traditional old maids who never found love and one is so ecstatic at the opportunity for a husband she's crying tears of joy. Then the next one is just ugly. I mean, look at that fast. NASTY!

Pirates+of+the+Caribbean+-+0089.jpg


Of course, there's also Tiny and the Redhead. With Tiny, if you look at her face and gestures, it's clear she wants to be wed. Her smile and the way her hands are posed give it away.

latest


Then the redhead's intent and desires are incredibly clear. While all the other women are in their nightgowns, the redhead got dressed, put on a corset to lift her bosom, did up her hair, and put on make up. She's a flirt who desires the pirate life (of course, now she has it) and this is only confirmed further in "Portrait of Things to Come" in the grotto.

ride-2011.jpg


The intent of this is made incredibly clear in the concept art by Marc Davis that even shows the women fawning over the pirates.

cb844fd0c788311cf83a6c5bf26d264b.jpg

Pirates-Marc-Davis-MiceChat.jpeg


There's so much depth in this scene that the new one so greatly lacks.
Let's talk about the changes to the redhead for fun because I love looking at the way this attraction, and Haunted Mansion, have changed over the years.

Let's start by looking at the concept art for the redhead. Here's two different depictions from Marc Davis. They both show the redhead as much younger than she appears on the actual ride and has a very petite waist. The joke is pretty much the same in both pieces with the pirate being interested in the redhead and the redhead wanting to be noticed (though, of course, she's certainly playing hard to get in that second piece).

redhead-slave-pirates-caribbean.jpg

477px-Redhead_2.jpg


We get the same design in this miniature model as well as the life size model of the scene in the Burbank Studios in December of 1965.

View attachment 289971

07_tour_auction.jpg

POTC_Model_Auction.jpg


Here's a better picture of the figure. Notice she's still all dolled up with a heavy dose of make up.

View attachment 289970

Of course, though, as you pointed out, when the attraction opened in 1967, she ended up looking like... this.

7_2_67_POTC_Wench.jpg


Obviously the joke about the pirates wanting the redhead remained from the early concepts, but the design of the redhead was certainly different from the original intention. She was no longer a young maiden with a petite, attractive figure, but now she was rather wide in contrast and had awful make up. Was this part of the joke to make it seem as if the pirates wanted a disgusting woman? It's very much similar to the kind of joke you see in a movie where a man dresses in drag and then another man pursues him thinking he's a beautiful woman. The joke there, however, stems from the fact the audience knows something the man on the screen doesn't know: that woman is a man! That isn't the case here, though, and rather the rest of the women are all ugly in their own ways, too, so the idea of the pirates choosing the ugly redhead over overbite or Tiny is an odd joke. It's not that the joke doesn't work if that's what they were going for, but it's something that's strange and definitely a deviation from what the original artwork shows.

As we can see here by 1974, the look of the redhead was already changed to make her prettier and stand out, no longer looking like a man in drag. It's definitely more in line with the original concept art, but to me it's always come off as if the redhead is a a middle aged woman who's put on a lot of makeup to try to look younger.

EkTPBK-4-74-N18B.jpg


There is one last thing that should be discussed, though, and that's the Portrait of Things to Come. Located in the grotto, this painting by Marc Davis depicts a redheaded pirate with a beauty mark who certainly seems to enjoy creating **** in the hearts of men. Because of the backwards storytelling of Pirates of the Caribbean, confirmed now by the newest addition to the grotto, it's very safe to say this is the same redhead from the auction scene. Her figure is definitely very much in line with the first piece of concept art listed above and she's definitely much younger looking than the redhead in the official attraction.

latest


So really, what's the deal with the redhead in all of this? She starts off young and seems to be far along in the design process, even having a full model created of her, then only to have her be an older looking woman who's not very desirable in the 1967 attraction despite the grottos of that same attraction featuring this very portrait of the same character who looks visibly younger despite being title "Portrait of Things to Come." Was something lost in translation when the actual animatronic was made? I certainly would find that hard to believe. I definitely plan on looking more into why she was changed but if anyone knows more, please do share.

Thanks for writing this. I've develepod an affinity for in depth Disneyland history that goes beyond "there's a spider on the glass in the ballroom", and posts like this are awesome to read.

Do you think there'd be demand for a thread that goes through and analyzes the ride as awhole- from conception, to the changes that it's undergone over the years? Could be a fun rival to the Long Forgotten thread on Micechat
 

Kram Sacul

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
WELP! Time to completely change the thread to something unrelated (Great analysis Tror BTW).
About the new scene... I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority here, but I actually enjoyed the water fall effect. Ignoring the awful Davy Jones projection. It acted as a screen between the two segments which created a sense of surprise and awe at the opening to the cave. Without it, you can see ALL the way to the ship battle scene from the caves. This removes a bit of the grand reveal of that huge show scene. I would have enjoyed it if they kept the waterfall, got rid of the Davey Jones projection, and added the new scene. That would be IDEAL in my personal opinion.

Did they remove the mist/fog machines?
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
Thanks for writing this. I've develepod an affinity for in depth Disneyland history that goes beyond "there's a spider on the glass in the ballroom", and posts like this are awesome to read.

Do you think there'd be demand for a thread that goes through and analyzes the ride as awhole- from conception, to the changes that it's undergone over the years? Could be a fun rival to the Long Forgotten thread on Micechat
I've wanted a thread like that for a long time but every time one pops up it dies off about a month or so later. I know MiceChat tried to start one a long time ago and it didn't last long. Just not as many enthusiastic fans for POTC as there are for Haunted Mansion, I suppose.
 

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