Photos - Storybook Circus soft opening

[WDW1974]

I'm not sure what you mean regarding the loss of credibility. We are stating our opinions just as you are. By the way, I don't believe everything WDW does is of poor or substandard quality. Here is a partial list of attractions that I feel meet the Disney standard: Horizons, World of Motion, the original Journey Into Imagination, American Adventure, Cranium Command, Tower Of Terror, Muppetvision, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Splash Mountain, Tough to Be A Bug, Safari, Star Tours, and Great Movie Ride. You'll notice that there are very few in that list that were introduced after 1996. Some of those attractions are in need of an update but still remain among the best in my opinion. I'd also like to point out I have been a fan of the Haunted Mansion redo even though that is the kind of thing we should be expecting from Disney. You cannot claim that I am always negative. I'm just calling it like I see it.

I believe our major complaint with FLE is its utter lack of anything exciting. I don't know how else to say it. Mermaid is a substandard dark ride just like the examples I used above, BATB will be okay but nothing like it could be (amazing mural notwithstanding), the Snow White coaster looks like it will be pretty and not much else, and the meet and greets will be okay. Once again, it might meet the status quo for what we have come to expect from WDW in the last fifteen years but it doesn't come close to Disney standards as a whole.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I've seen and heard upper management quash good quality projects and/or important show elements using the excuse that "they won't know the difference," and "just look at the comments on the blogs." If that isn't enough to get the point across I don't know what will wake people up. WDW is getting the quality that its audience is demanding. Normal guests don't know any better. It's Disney's job to offer experiences beyond expectations and adventures the average guest would never dream of. My problem is with the fan community that should know better but instead praise Disney when they're just good enough to get a c- or d+. Their acceptance of this is one of the things that empowers Disney to continue manufacturing substandard product.

You're defending your credibility to JT??!??! Seriously?:ROFLOL:

There may be folks who you need to appear credible to, but he wouldn't be exhibit A.

I think you've explained yourself quite well in this thread. I particularly liked the comparing of WDW fans to starving people getting tossed some dried rice. When you are desperate, anything tends to look good.

Many WDW fans simply don't know what Disney is capable of around the globe and what is used to be in O-Town ... or they won't even consider that others like UNI or SW etc have better product.

They just look at something new and are so bored with the old that they get themselves all hot, bothered and lathered up ... by a relocated spinner with some water under it, by a kiddie coaster with less theming than the prior incarnation and by a nicer RR station and restroom complex.

For some of us who have been to all the Disney parks and have experienced WDW in its glory days, seeing nice paving with 'peanuts' tossed in really isn't bar raising ...

~Always remember who you are dealing with!~

 

[jt04]

I'm not sure what you mean regarding the loss of credibility. We are stating our opinions just as you are. By the way, I don't believe everything WDW does is of poor or substandard quality. Here is a partial list of attractions that I feel meet the Disney standard: Horizons, World of Motion, the original Journey Into Imagination, American Adventure, Cranium Command, Tower Of Terror, Muppetvision, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Splash Mountain, Tough to Be A Bug, Safari, Star Tours, and Great Movie Ride. You'll notice that there are very few in that list that were introduced after 1996. Some of those attractions are in need of an update but still remain among the best in my opinion. I'd also like to point out I have been a fan of the Haunted Mansion redo even though that is the kind of thing we should be expecting from Disney. You cannot claim that I am always negative. I'm just calling it like I see it.

I believe our major complaint with FLE is its utter lack of anything exciting. I don't know how else to say it. Mermaid is a substandard dark ride just like the examples I used above, BATB will be okay but nothing like it could be (amazing mural notwithstanding), the Snow White coaster looks like it will be pretty and not much else, and the meet and greets will be okay. Once again, it might meet the status quo for what we have come to expect from WDW in the last fifteen years but it doesn't come close to Disney standards as a whole.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I've seen and heard upper management quash good quality projects and/or important show elements using the excuse that "they won't know the difference," and "just look at the comments on the blogs." If that isn't enough to get the point across I don't know what will wake people up. WDW is getting the quality that its audience is demanding. Normal guests don't know any better. It's Disney's job to offer experiences beyond expectations and adventures the average guest would never dream of. My problem is with the fan community that should know better but instead praise Disney when they're just good enough to get a c- or d+. Their acceptance of this is one of the things that empowers Disney to continue manufacturing substandard product.

I think this is where the disconnect is. The FLE was never intended to be an addition for teens and thrill seekers. It was meant to add capacity for younger families which was sorely lacking at this park. They had spent billions on property building and adding capacity for older audiences to expand their demographic base while neglecting their core audience, especially at the MK. This is why they are skewing the FLE towards families and adding things like interactive queues that appeal mainly to the shorter attention spans of children. The MK just was not magical enough for this demo and the FLE seeks to correct this major flaw. It seems to be working. Someone posted a letter from Mr Lasseter that explained all this.

Unfortunately some people only see life through a "what's in it for me" prisim and are therefore potentially dissatisfied with the FLE. But judging from the buzz of the crowd, the laughter in the air and the long lines, I would say Disney is getting this one perfectly correct. Because if they decided they don't want younger families then other parks will fill the void. See Legoland for example.

 

[yeti]

Whatever happened to caring about sight lines?

That mentality died long ago.

 

[whylightbulb]

I think the thing that muddles others from hearing your criticsm objectively is that you DO have insight the inner workings of the company. That therefore makes your opinion biased, and not necessarily in a bad way. It must be frustrating to know what could or should have been and look at what was given. There is a beauty though in ignorance in that you can accept and see things more as they are than what you feel they should be.

The average guest (those on here are not) can be wowed and excited over FLE because to them this is a transportation into a world they do not see in their daily life. It'll be shiny and new! For a little girl, how cool is it to walk in Belle's village and visit her home just like in the movie or for the young boy who loves playing all the games in the Dumbo queue leading up to the ride he sees on every Disney Commercial. Those moments, seen from a child's perspective can be just a magical as a ride on Journey into the Center of the Earth for the adult. It is all about perspective...

I agree in some part to your response. Many guests will visit FLE and be thoroughly enchanted. Than again I've visited parks like Kings Island and watched audiences scream with delight while riding the James Bond simulator. If you haven't been on this attraction suffice it to say that its quality is that of a carnival ride. It comes off as that cheap. My point is you can always find people to enjoy something if certain elements are in place. In the case of a Disney experience just throw in some Disney characters and songs and you have yourself a hit. I've even seen people enjoy Journey Into Imagination.

Here's my issue: Disney is cheating its paying customers. You should be receiving a product of equal or greater value than Disneyland or Tokyo Disney. Plain and simple. Yes I realize WDW is located in Florida and therefore is projecting based on different metrics than Tokyo. In that case they should be charging less. As it stands a day at Disneyland is less expensive than a day in the Magic Kingdom. Disneyland has several more attractions than the Magic Kingdom and most of them are better in terms of quality and upkeep. So the alternative is charge less or offer more. Instead they charge more and offer less. WDW is ripping people off.

I'm not ignorant to the fact that often the Magic Kingdom is filled to capacity and if they dropped the prices it would get worse. It would stand to reason than that the correct option is to offer more.

Speaking to the issue about the kids enjoying the experience I can say that I as a kid knew the difference between true Disney quality and average Disney quality. The Haunted Mansion and Pirates were the two attractions that solidified my choice to become an Imagineer when I was five years old. My parents took me on Peter Pan or Snow White and I remember saying, "is that all there is?" I thought to myself that the same people that created Mansion and Pirates could certainly do better than "carboard cutouts."

Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate the Fantasyland attractions and I certainly appreciated their charm but I knew that Disney was capable of much more. I'm also not saying Disney should never build smaller rides but perhaps they should limit the Cintra cutouts and do more true 3D sets and immersive experiences. Unfortunately Mermaid is about as immersive as Nemo.

Here's an analogy to summarize this point: Recently the story was broken regarding the "green slime" found in ground meat products. This is some kind of filler that is added to some ground meats in order to reduce the processing costs. Well Disney is doing a similar thing with their product. They are using "filler" materials and product to reduce their production costs in order to squeeze more profit. Why are we not demanding an authentic Disney product like DisneySea? I'm bored of the "green slime."

 

[jt04]

You're defending your credibility to JT??!??! Seriously?:ROFLOL:

There may be folks who you need to appear credible to, but he wouldn't be exhibit A.

I think you've explained yourself quite well in this thread. I particularly liked the comparing of WDW fans to starving people getting tossed some dried rice. When you are desperate, anything tends to look good.

Many WDW fans simply don't know what Disney is capable of around the globe and what is used to be in O-Town ... or they won't even consider that others like UNI or SW etc have better product.

They just look at something new and are so bored with the old that they get themselves all hot, bothered and lathered up ... by a relocated spinner with some water under it, by a kiddie coaster with less theming than the prior incarnation and by a nicer RR station and restroom complex.

For some of us who have been to all the Disney parks and have experienced WDW in its glory days, seeing nice paving with 'peanuts' tossed in really isn't bar raising ...

~Always remember who you are dealing with!~

Since you likely have me on ignore to shield your eyes from the blinding light of truth I have decided to repost this directly to you. Do NOT forget to don welding glasses before reading this bit of brilliance. You have been warned


I think this is where the disconnect is. The FLE was never intended to be an addition for teens and thrill seekers. It was meant to add capacity for younger families which was sorely lacking at this park. They had spent billions on property building and adding capacity for older audiences to expand their demographic base while neglecting their core audience, especially at the MK. This is why they are skewing the FLE towards families and adding things like interactive queues that appeal mainly to the shorter attention spans of children. The MK just was not magical enough for this demo and the FLE seeks to correct this major flaw. It seems to be working. Someone posted a letter from Mr Lasseter that explained all this.

Unfortunately some people only see life through a "what's in it for me" prisim and are therefore potentially dissatisfied with the FLE. But judging from the buzz of the crowd, the laughter in the air and the long lines, I would say Disney is getting this one perfectly correct. Because if they decided they don't want younger families then other parks will fill the void. See Legoland for example.


~truth~

 

[WDW1974]

I have mixed feelings, as usual.

On one hand, you can liken this to Test Track, where you see lots of ugly backstage during the loop. But the idea is that you're going fast and most people are looking ahead or have their eyes closed. Same goes for Barnstormer.

At the same time, as soon as that fence comes down, everyone on the Speedway will be looking right at it. And it's ugly.

If I'm thinking correctly, this is the first un-themed portion of a show building guests can see from inside the Magic Kingdom. So, doing this sort of makes them look lazy, in this park.

The whole concept of the MK was to take you away to another world. That's why you don't see air conditioners, fluorescent lights, unthemed building walls, street vehicles, or CM's in the wrong section of the park. Now they have a giant green building smack dab in the middle of the park, and it's just wrong.

I just hope horticulture hasn't gotten in there to plant their trees, but I think that's wishful thinking.

I hope so too ... that is just UGLY and LAZY as is ... no excuse.

BAD SHOW!

~If you see the Spirit in the MK: DO NOT APPROACH HIM OR MAKE EYE CONTACT!~

 

[dman1373]

the thing that people don't understand is it is magic kingdom. And specifically Storybook circus. This is meant to make you feel like being in the 1940's about to be seeing some magical animals break the mold of what they are supposed to do, and do make you dream that anything can come true. This so far is feels that way for the most part for me. It is not supposed to be a super structure that is 200 foot tall and has some motor that flips you 500 times.

Its just a well themed area, that you can take everyone to enjoy. Not everything has to be tower of terror or harry potter for you to enjoy it.

 

[mets7]

Yes, it is a building. (Was that really a question?) I care, and frankly, a lot of people on this forum care. I'm not trying to be a doom and gloom-er, in fact, you'll come to know that I'm quite the opposite. I don't know why you're jumping down my throat, again I said that I liked the land but you can CLEARLY see Dumbo's show building from all around, and that is not okay. By your logic, Disney shouldn't even bother theaming the outside of attractions, lets just keep them in warehouses, its only just a building!

Is this going to impact my enjoyment of WDW? No, thats ridiculous. But I am going to notice it. Disney may be an amusment park, but its held to a higher standard, and showing a gross, grey-green show building with ac vents and the like is not good show. And, as a true Disney fan, you understand how vital "good show" is.

CrescentLake....Let me apologize I am not jumping down your throat. I just don't get all of the negativity. We have waited for almost two years for this to open. Imediately people are saying "it looks great, BUT..." or I love what they did here, BUT they should have done this instead." People are complaining about the building, the costumes, the fact no new rides are in it. All I am saying is this is supposed to be the happiest place on Earth. I understand there is a standard for disney and being able to see the back of a building goes against that. But, people on here almost act like it is the end of the world.

To your comment about them theming the outside of the building. It is like people...it is what is on the inside that counts. If the haunted mansion looked like a warehouse on the outside I would still ride it and love the attraction. It might not look as pretty but the ride would still be same.

I do like the idea someone had about adding what looks like a second tent and maybe they are not done yet, who knows. All I know is I will be down there in October and I will be enjoying Dumbo, barnstormer and whatever else is finished at the time(which is hopefully everything) **crossing fingers**

 

[whylightbulb]

I think this is where the disconnect is. The FLE was never intended to be an addition for teens and thrill seekers. It was meant to add capacity for younger families which was sorely lacking at this park. They had spent billions on property building and adding capacity for older audiences to expand their demographic base while neglecting their core audience, especially at the MK. This is why they are skewing the FLE towards families and adding things like interactive queues that appeal mainly to the shorter attention spans of children. The MK just was not magical enough for this demo and the FLE seeks to correct this major flaw. It seems to be working. Someone posted a letter from Mr Lasseter that explained all this.

Unfortunately some people only see life through a "what's in it for me" prisim and are therefore potentially dissatisfied with the FLE. But judging from the buzz of the crowd, the laughter in the air and the long lines, I would say Disney is getting this one perfectly correct. Because if they decided they don't want younger families then other parks will fill the void. See Legoland for example.

you're right that there is a disconnect. I don't believe that Disney should be catering to the young kids...they should be catering to the family. Walt believed the same thing. You say that's what they are going for but I can tell you most fathers have little desire to ride Mermaid or Barnstormer other than to watch their children enjoy them. There is something to be said for that but isn't that the very thing Walt was trying to avoid? You know that whole story of him sitting watching his kids on the merry-go-round eating peanuts.

A fantastic example of a more recent Disney family ride is the Sinbad attraction at DisneySea. This ride is tame for the little ones, has a fantastic, catchy song written by Alan Menken, and is colorful. At the same time it has a touching story and amazing animatronics. These are things that the entire family can appreciate. It is an attraction that meets all the Disney standards as well. Is it too much to ask to have those kind of attractions at WDW? What about more like Pirates...I loved that one as a little kid.

It is Disney's fault that they are so desperate to add capacity. Many have told management for years that the MK needed new attractions but they kept making excuses not to invest further in that property. Now they are trying to play catch up and doing a mediocre job at it.

 

[whylightbulb]

You're defending your credibility to JT??!??! Seriously?:ROFLOL:

There may be folks who you need to appear credible to, but he wouldn't be exhibit A.

I think you've explained yourself quite well in this thread. I particularly liked the comparing of WDW fans to starving people getting tossed some dried rice. When you are desperate, anything tends to look good.

Many WDW fans simply don't know what Disney is capable of around the globe and what is used to be in O-Town ... or they won't even consider that others like UNI or SW etc have better product.

They just look at something new and are so bored with the old that they get themselves all hot, bothered and lathered up ... by a relocated spinner with some water under it, by a kiddie coaster with less theming than the prior incarnation and by a nicer RR station and restroom complex.

For some of us who have been to all the Disney parks and have experienced WDW in its glory days, seeing nice paving with 'peanuts' tossed in really isn't bar raising ...

~Always remember who you are dealing with!~

You are 100% correct sir. If only there were a group with the resources to combat all this mediocrity and just take over! One can certainly dream :animwink:

 

[lpstorm316]

it looks good, i want to go back to wdw when the rest of fantasy land its open, but its good to see something new

 

[whylightbulb]

the thing that people don't understand is it is magic kingdom. And specifically Storybook circus. This is meant to make you feel like being in the 1940's about to be seeing some magical animals break the mold of what they are supposed to do, and do make you dream that anything can come true. This so far is feels that way for the most part for me. It is not supposed to be a super structure that is 200 foot tall and has some motor that flips you 500 times.

Its just a well themed area, that you can take everyone to enjoy. Not everything has to be tower of terror or harry potter for you to enjoy it.

So seeing a bunch of fiberglass Dumbos on arms running in circles makes you dream that anything can come true. I'm not attacking you but I think you are helping to make my point. I want to be transported to the 1940's and immersed in another world. The water and Dumbo spinner doesn't do it for me at least. Now an inverted Dumbo ride system similar to ET might do the trick...and it doesn't have to flip even once.

 

[whylightbulb]

First, I want to say that I very much appreciate your perspective on things and always find your posts very interesting to read.

But the sentence above which I bolded is the one thing which I think so many people forget that this is what made Disney's parks to what they are now.

I don't expect Disney to meet my expectations, but to exceed them. I want to see and experience something which I could not dream of wanting because I lack the creativity to do so. But I can very well appreciate the result of other people's creativity.

As for the FLE: having been to DLP several times I know that Disney can build a very pretty Fantasyland - and the Magic Kingdom's one so far never even met my expectations in this regard. So it was high time that they did something about that area of the park to bring it up to par with what they have elsewhere.

And while I don't want to come to any conclusions before I haven't seen the new MK Dumbo in person (and in the finished version), I do have very strong doubts that it will be able to compete with DLP's Dumbo... I am really not sure whether putting it at the fringe of the park and enclosing it with queue buildings did that much to add to its atmosphere.

To be fair I'd say this Dumbo is about as nice as DLPs but really there is only so much you can do with a spinner.

Amen to exceeding expectations! WDW used to do it and now they barely meet them. I can't tell you how many concepts I worked on that got turned down because other projects were less costly or less complex and would be "good enough." That is the current thinking at TDO and a lot of WDI.

 

[HMF]

You are 100% correct sir. If only there were a group with the resources to combat all this mediocrity and just take over! One can certainly dream :animwink:

A Florida based WDI, perhaps?:animwink:

 

[CrescentLake]

CrescentLake....Let me apologize I am not jumping down your throat. I just don't get all of the negativity. We have waited for almost two years for this to open. Imediately people are saying "it looks great, BUT..." or I love what they did here, BUT they should have done this instead." People are complaining about the building, the costumes, the fact no new rides are in it. All I am saying is this is supposed to be the happiest place on Earth. I understand there is a standard for disney and being able to see the back of a building goes against that. But, people on here almost act like it is the end of the world.

To your comment about them theming the outside of the building. It is like people...it is what is on the inside that counts. If the haunted mansion looked like a warehouse on the outside I would still ride it and love the attraction. It might not look as pretty but the ride would still be same.

I do like the idea someone had about adding what looks like a second tent and maybe they are not done yet, who knows. All I know is I will be down there in October and I will be enjoying Dumbo, barnstormer and whatever else is finished at the time(which is hopefully everything) **crossing fingers**

No worries, tone is usually something hard to convey on a board like this. The thing is, here on the internet, you have the craziest of Disney fans, and we nitpick. Even so, the vast majority of this board would probably agree that Storybook Circus looks good. I understand you don't like the negativity, but we need to hold Disney to a higher standard. If we don't, who will?

My only nitpick with the area is the showbuilding. Thats really bad show. I come to Disney to be transported to a different world beyond my wildest dreams. A grey showbuilding doesn't do that. At Disney, its not just the inside of the ride that counts, if it was, it wouldn't be Disney. Facades are important. I wouldn't go to a park full of warehouses, it wouldn't be magical.

I'm hoping to find some money and head down there myself for a few days this summer. I'll go to Storybook Circus, and I'll enjoy myself because Disney is my favorite place in the world. I hope you have fun on your trip!

 

[ChrisFL]

Many WDW fans simply don't know what Disney is capable of around the globe and what is used to be in O-Town ... or they won't even consider that others like UNI or SW etc have better product.

Yep, I really wish a lot of WDW fans could visit Tokyo to see REAL incredible Disney attractions (ignoring that new spinner they added to DisneySea for a moment)

 

[wdwmagic]

So seeing a bunch of fiberglass Dumbos on arms running in circles makes you dream that anything can come true. I'm not attacking you but I think you are helping to make my point. I want to be transported to the 1940's and immersed in another world. The water and Dumbo spinner doesn't do it for me at least. Now an inverted Dumbo ride system similar to ET might do the trick...and it doesn't have to flip even once.

You are absolutely right. The way to have turned Storybook Circus into a wow would have been to create an all new Dumbo with a serious ride system and not a spinner.

 

[wdwmagic]

I have mixed feelings, as usual.

On one hand, you can liken this to Test Track, where you see lots of ugly backstage during the loop. But the idea is that you're going fast and most people are looking ahead or have their eyes closed. Same goes for Barnstormer.

At the same time, as soon as that fence comes down, everyone on the Speedway will be looking right at it. And it's ugly.

If I'm thinking correctly, this is the first un-themed portion of a show building guests can see from inside the Magic Kingdom. So, doing this sort of makes them look lazy, in this park.

The whole concept of the MK was to take you away to another world. That's why you don't see air conditioners, fluorescent lights, unthemed building walls, street vehicles, or CM's in the wrong section of the park. Now they have a giant green building smack dab in the middle of the park, and it's just wrong.

I just hope horticulture hasn't gotten in there to plant their trees, but I think that's wishful thinking.

I really think something will have to be done with it and it is not finished. The entire side facing the speedway is exposed, it can't stay that way. You can also clearly see it from all over the Barnstormer, and on the walkways around that area. There is also at the moment no physical barrier (other than the temporary construction wall) to stop guests entering the speedway track. This last point makes me think something will be done. It does however seem strange that it is not in place already, as it will surely be harder to do now guests are in. The 24 hour work on this in recent weeks does seem to suggest though that operations have been desperate to get extra capacity for spring break and Easter.

 

[jt04]

you're right that there is a disconnect. I don't believe that Disney should be catering to the young kids...they should be catering to the family. Walt believed the same thing. You say that's what they are going for but I can tell you most fathers have little desire to ride Mermaid or Barnstormer other than to watch their children enjoy them. There is something to be said for that but isn't that the very thing Walt was trying to avoid? You know that whole story of him sitting watching his kids on the merry-go-round eating peanuts.

A fantastic example of a more recent Disney family ride is the Sinbad attraction at DisneySea. This ride is tame for the little ones, has a fantastic, catchy song written by Alan Menken, and is colorful. At the same time it has a touching story and amazing animatronics. These are things that the entire family can appreciate. It is an attraction that meets all the Disney standards as well. Is it too much to ask to have those kind of attractions at WDW? What about more like Pirates...I loved that one as a little kid.

It is Disney's fault that they are so desperate to add capacity. Many have told management for years that the MK needed new attractions but they kept making excuses not to invest further in that property. Now they are trying to play catch up and doing a mediocre job at it.

They are not about to invest on a TDR scale anytime soon. As I mentioned earlier, anything on that scale will never happen in the states until the economy is growing at 5 or 6 per cent or better for several years. In fact, I suspect that if Iger had known the economy was going to remain in the doldrums all these years we would have never seen Carsland or the FLE greenlighted.

~its the economy, goofy~

 

[COProgressFan]

I really think something will have to be done with it and it is not finished. The entire side facing the speedway is exposed, it can't stay that way. You can also clearly see it from all over the Barnstormer, and on the walkways around that area. There is also at the moment no physical barrier (other than the temporary construction wall) to stop guests entering the speedway track. This last point makes me think something will be done. It does however seem strange that it is not in place already, as it will surely be harder to do now guests are in. The 24 hour work on this in recent weeks does seem to suggest though that operations have been desperate to get extra capacity for spring break and Easter.

Interesting thoughts, and I think you may be right. At least I hope so!