People Waiting at WDW for Harry Potter?!

joshl33

New Member
Line inaccuracies

First off I just want to say you guys keep repeating that the lines are 7 hours. That was for opening day when the actors where there. I was at IOA last night and you can come and go as you please. The line for the ride was 90 minutes but single rider only 25. I even walked into a couple of the stores at the end of the night with no line. Nobody since opening day has waited in any lines to get into the area.
 

fosse76

Well-Known Member
I guess then it's this "mediocrity" is what makes WDW the #1 vacation destination in the world.

It's not. Times Square, in the U.S., has more visitors in a year than Disney World. Worldwide, France is the most popular vacation destination.
 

RobGraves

New Member
First off I just want to say you guys keep repeating that the lines are 7 hours. That was for opening day when the actors where there. I was at IOA last night and you can come and go as you please. The line for the ride was 90 minutes but single rider only 25. I even walked into a couple of the stores at the end of the night with no line. Nobody since opening day has waited in any lines to get into the area.


You were there last NIGHT.


NIGHT.

I said last night you could walk in... but in the morning, at about 11am it was 7 hours. dropped off a bit over time and as the clouds rolled in...

The day before there was a line to get in till about 2pm

dont talk if you dont know what you are talking about. I know people who were working the area letting people in.
 

fosse76

Well-Known Member
Will WWoHP have massive lines 10+ years from now? No! I'm sure many of you are calling me a HP hater, or some other stupid narrow minded insult, but look at the history of new attractions. They are blockbusters for the first couple of years and then once the newness has died down the whole "Been there, done that" concept comes into play. Since many of you have been comparing HP to SW, look at the SW ride in DHS, does it have massive wait times year round? No!

Even on a Saturday at Disneyland, by the afternoon the wait for Star Tours was 15 minutes. I agree with you. This happens at every park. The big, bad new ride has hours-long waits. And then within the next few years something newer comes along and takes the lines with it!

Disney was given the opportunity to obtain the license to the HP franchise but turned it down. There are many reasons this was done, first and foremost I would venture to guess was the money asked was way too much.

Why do people think this is what happened? Disney didn't turn it down. J. K. Rowling turned Disney down. She found Universal more willing to work with her and maintain her vision. It is her property and she wanted input. She saw what they did with Seuss Landing and that sold her.

Also its possible that the Disney execs didn't see the HP franchise having a long life span beyond its honeymoon stage (which we are currently still in).

Again, Disney didn't turn her down. But what's to say Cars will have the same appeal in five years. Harry Potter is an older franchise and much more popular. Plus I would argue, the attraction can keep the series fresh as it could inspire more people to look at the series who haven't before.


Disney usually invests in a franchise for its long term success, not short term gains. Case in point is the purchase of Marvel, Disney recognized the long term popularity of the Marvel franchise and its characters. With the seemingly infinite list of characters to choose from, Disney can profit from movies, attractions, merchandise, etc... for years to come. Since the future of the HP franchise is unclear, I would think Disney didn't feel comfortable paying exorbant amounts of money upfront for a franchise that may die out in the next 10 years.

The success of all franchises are unclear. Look at Narnia, which Disney tried to turn into the next Harry Potter. They dropped that series before production was finished on Prince Caspian! (That's hyperbole, of course).

A lot of you guys are saying that you think Disney is regretting not picking up the HP franchise, but for all we know it may be the other way around. Uni put themselves in further debt by putting all their eggs in one basket and dumping hundreds of millions into the WWoHP project. What if the popularity of WWoHP dies down before Uni breaks even or generates any sort of profit from this investment? Suddenly Uni is regretting taking on the project and investing so much money into it, since now they are further in debt and have no way out.

Wrong. Universal is laughing all the way to the bank on this one.

Will the opening of WWoHP have any direct visible effect on WDW? No!

People seem to forget that Disney's crowd levels are mostly contributable to the massive discounting that they've been doing. I wonder what the crowd levels would really be without these discounts.

Will people visiting WDW go to Uni to see WWoHP? Possibly, but given the masive wait times posted here, I don't think anyone in their right mind would drive to downtown Orlando to visit a park to stand in line all day, when they could just jump on a bus and visit 4 that have more reasonable wait times.

I'm sure a good portion of people will visit Universal. No one I know who visits Disney does it exclusively (and none of them visit all four parks). Universal is always mentioned, Seaworld not as much. But make no mistake, people don't vacation in Orlando exclusively at WDW as much as you think they do. Why do you thin DME is free? Disney knows that people with cars will travel to other non-Disney parks when visiting Orlando.

Will people visiting Uni go to WDW? Possibly, since Uni is only a one to two day park, if people took an entire weekend or even a full week vacation, they'd have a few days to kill aver visiting Uni, so they may go check out WDW or Sea World or Busch Gardens. No telling.

There is telling. You act like people who visit WDW will only visit the WDW parks. Which isn't true. As I said above, most everyone I talk to who has gone to Orlando for vacation only mention spending a day or two at Disney. I also know people who don't go anywhere near Disney.
 

PurpleDragon

Well-Known Member
You were there last NIGHT.


NIGHT.

I said last night you could walk in... but in the morning, at about 11am it was 7 hours. dropped off a bit over time and as the clouds rolled in...

The day before there was a line to get in till about 2pm

dont talk if you dont know what you are talking about.
I know people who were working the area letting people in.


Hello pot, meet kettle. :rolleyes:
 

RobGraves

New Member
Hello pot, meet kettle. :rolleyes:


I was there all day, I know exactly what im talking about.

The whole resort is benefiting from the crowd... I waited on rides I havent waited for in years.

The fanboi act here is getting old. People who will bury thier head in the sand and refuse to see that someone other than disney might have done something successful.
 

Evil Genius

Well-Known Member
I'm sure a good portion of people will visit Universal. No one I know who visits Disney does it exclusively (and none of them visit all four parks). Universal is always mentioned, Seaworld not as much. But make no mistake, people don't vacation in Orlando exclusively at WDW as much as you think they do. Why do you thin DME is free? Disney knows that people with cars will travel to other non-Disney parks when visiting Orlando.



There is telling. You act like people who visit WDW will only visit the WDW parks. Which isn't true. As I said above, most everyone I talk to who has gone to Orlando for vacation only mention spending a day or two at Disney. I also know people who don't go anywhere near Disney.

I don't know many (if any) the above apply to. At best the majority of people I speak with state that they spend the majority of their vacations at WDW and maybe a day at either Uni or Sea World.

Now there are those who do venture down and don't go near the Disney parks at. I wouldn't imagine that's a large number. But as I've stated before, WDW is a destination vacation. Universal is not. That doesn't take anything away from the parks themselves...it's just a fact. WWoHP will bring Universal's numbers up exponentially...but I wouldn't wager they will ever surpass WDW's.

Again I don't say this to bring down Universal...just looking at the reality of the situation.
 

Gregoryp73

Active Member
It was reported during the merger that it was not a set licensing fee and based on the ammount of people that enter the park in a year. If it doesn't tie into Theme Park attendance numbers directly, it does tie into IoA profit. I'm almost positive it's not a set fee or time contract.

Especially those that have put money into the DVC...There are quite a few potter fans that use DVC as well that will use their points...and rent a van or car to drive to universal for two days. (next thursday <cough>)

I'm not going to discount Universal for doing potter. It's a smart move for them, and for a company that has no specific branding limits, it makes sense.

They will make money, and lots of it. Disney will make money and lots of it. And while we'll see 4 hour waits into the park for about a week, it will die down after the fanatics "that had to be there on day one", get their fill.

FJ will be a consistent 2 hour wait (during peak times) and a flagship ride for IOA. Disney will continue to develop their property as they see fit and draw millions more, just because they have the infrastructure in place to do so.

And for those who keep beating the "twilight" drum...they are already constructing an expansion geared toward the same target audience (preteen girls) in FL. Granted you won't see Mr. Toad with his shirt off, or a pale pinocchio that sparkles, but i'm sure all the princess Meet and Greets will do great.

Especially with the next-gen characters.
 

ddbowdoin

Well-Known Member
I don't know many (if any) the above apply to. At best the majority of people I speak with state that they spend the majority of their vacations at WDW and maybe a day at either Uni or Sea World.

Now there are those who do venture down and don't go near the Disney parks at. I wouldn't imagine that's a large number. But as I've stated before, WDW is a destination vacation. Universal is not. That doesn't take anything away from the parks themselves...it's just a fact. WWoHP will bring Universal's numbers up exponentially...but I wouldn't wager they will ever surpass WDW's.

Again I don't say this to bring down Universal...just looking at the reality of the situation.


I see Uni as just a thrill ride theme park, just like Six Flags here in New England. There are some amazing roller coasters and the rest of the park is just an amusement park. I'm pretty new here and am definitely not as well versed as some of the veterens on this site but I honestly see WDW as a Magical place. When I am in Orlando I make a note to stop into UNI IoA for the rides (hulk, dragons) but once I've ridden those thrill rides I'm all set with the park. When I am at WDW, I may ride all of the big rides one day then spend the rest of the day just walking around, stopping into shops, taking in the sites. With only 4 parks there is a reason why people go for a week plus, the parks are mulitdimensional while UNI is not.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
Wow the amount of drama in this thread is ridiculous. I think my IQ just dropped a few points reading some of the fanboi drivel that has been posted (on both sides). Many of you are so wound up in your own dream world, you are absolutely unwilling to look at the big picture or see things from another perspective.

The Bottom Line:

WWoHP is a wonderful new attraction at Uni, it will bring a large number of HP fans to Orlando as well as curious travelers who might make a special trip to check it out.

Is it a great thing for Universal? Yes!

Will it increase their turnstile numbers for the next few years? Yes!

Will it allow Universal to beat out Disney theme parks on annual attendance? Doubtful since even AK has a good 3 Million+ more visitors per year than Uni. WWoHP may bring that many more visitors during its initial opening year, but I don't see it generating that much in coming years.

Will the HP franchise be popular in the next 10 years? Hard to say, the books are aimed towards kids and teens and often times movies and books aimed at that demographic don't tend to last. While I will admit there are a number of adults who have read the books/seen the movies and fell in love with them, it doesn't mean that HP will have the same long lasting success as the SW series. However speculating on that at this point is rather futile since none of us can truly predict the future.

Will WWoHP have massive lines 10+ years from now? No! I'm sure many of you are calling me a HP hater, or some other stupid narrow minded insult, but look at the history of new attractions. They are blockbusters for the first couple of years and then once the newness has died down the whole "Been there, done that" concept comes into play. Since many of you have been comparing HP to SW, look at the SW ride in DHS, does it have massive wait times year round? No!

Disney was given the opportunity to obtain the license to the HP franchise but turned it down. There are many reasons this was done, first and foremost I would venture to guess was the money asked was way too much. Also its possible that the Disney execs didn't see the HP franchise having a long life span beyond its honeymoon stage (which we are currently still in). Disney usually invests in a franchise for its long term success, not short term gains. Case in point is the purchase of Marvel, Disney recognized the long term popularity of the Marvel franchise and its characters. With the seemingly infinite list of characters to choose from, Disney can profit from movies, attractions, merchandise, etc... for years to come. Since the future of the HP franchise is unclear, I would think Disney didn't feel comfortable paying exorbant amounts of money upfront for a franchise that may die out in the next 10 years.

A lot of you guys are saying that you think Disney is regretting not picking up the HP franchise, but for all we know it may be the other way around. Uni put themselves in further debt by putting all their eggs in one basket and dumping hundreds of millions into the WWoHP project. What if the popularity of WWoHP dies down before Uni breaks even or generates any sort of profit from this investment? Suddenly Uni is regretting taking on the project and investing so much money into it, since now they are further in debt and have no way out.

Will the opening of WWoHP have any direct visible effect on WDW? No!

Will people visiting WDW go to Uni to see WWoHP? Possibly, but given the masive wait times posted here, I don't think anyone in their right mind would drive to downtown Orlando to visit a park to stand in line all day, when they could just jump on a bus and visit 4 that have more reasonable wait times.

Will people visiting Uni go to WDW? Possibly, since Uni is only a one to two day park, if people took an entire weekend or even a full week vacation, they'd have a few days to kill aver visiting Uni, so they may go check out WDW or Sea World or Busch Gardens. No telling.


As you yourself said... "Hello pot, meet kettle".

You're basing your entire argument on a handful of things you seem to think will work against Uni in the future:

That the franchise dies in 10 years. JKR has already hinted that she might not actually be done with the books. You think if/when this area proves to be as successful as it seems to be, it's not going to get her brain going about what she could do in another book? A 5 year break between books would create insane buzz.

That Uni put "all their eggs in one basket", and could basically go under from it. I won't get into it here because no one cares, but there are probably 10 different scenarios that would play out before it would come to that... And probably 8 of those scenarios end with Uni making money. Sure, they spent a ton... But their risk isn't what you seem to think it is.

You're also basing your argument on the WWoHP as it stands today. One new attraction, a couple re-branded ones, and some shops. You have NO idea if that's the way it will stay. In fact, rumors are pointing to expansion plans already being looked at. Don't forget, if they expand the land, there's no further licensing fees... Just the cost of expansion. And expansion means more revenue. And more revenue means more profit. They could add a show, more restaurants... Figure out a way to build a HP themed hotel, another super E ticket... Any number of things. They're not limited to what's already been built, and there's probably quite a few bean counters over there drooling.

There's NO WAY that Disney is happy about this. NO WAY. To think so would be foolish. Revenue lost is revenue lost. When people spend a day at another park other than at Disney, Disney loses money. End of story. They know that. They missed the boat on HP.

And let me add that I'm not an HP fan. Never read a book, only saw 1 of the movies (maybe two, I can't recall). But we're spending two days at Uni on our next trip to Orlando in October for the first time in a few years. And you can bet that I'm FAR from alone. Uni is capturing the "casual tourist" with this... Not just the fanatics. And if they keep up the unbelieveable marketing campaign they've had thus far, it's only going to add to that.
 

Wilt Dasney

Well-Known Member
I don't know if Times Square gets more people than WDW, but I don't have a hard time believing it. It's kind of an apples/oranges comparison, though, when you're comparing an open-air space to attendance at gated theme parks.

I'm sure there are sidewalks in China and India that see more people pass through in a year than WDW could ever dream of.

It is a good reminder that when you talk about "tourist destinations" (and WDW being #1), you should specify what you mean by that (gated destinations vs. unrestricted urban locations). Beyond attracting tourists, they're really not in the same business at all. (For that matter, places like Times Square or Paris aren't in "a" business at all. They're central locations for any number of merchants to ply trade.)
 

orky8

Well-Known Member
Revenue lost is revenue lost.

It may not be that simple, because it depends on how WWHOP affects people's decisions to come to Orlando. For example, here are three basic scenarios in my mind (and many subsets of these):

1) WWHOP causes people who were planning on spending a week at Disney to go to Uni for a day or two. Disney loses revenue on these people.

2) WWHOP causes people to come to Uni that never had any intention of going to Disney. Disney's revenue unaffected.

3) WWHOP causes people to come down to Orlando or causes people to come to Orlando more frequently because there is more to do. These people, while in Orlando, also visit Disney. Disney gains revenue.

We simply don't yet know how this will work out or which scenarios are going to predominate in the long run. I hope WWHOP lights a fire under TDO to finally unleash WDI, but I'm not sure from a revenue standpoint that is what we are going to see.

The people that waited 7+ hours to get in last weekend, I think were category 2 people. Personally, I am a category 1 person. My sister-in-law is a category 3 person. And, lets consider this, I am a category 1 person so I will either extend my Orlando vacation or Disney will lose a day or two of revenue from me (probably the former, so their revenue will be largely unaffected). My sister-in-law is a category 3 person. Disney will gain at least a day or two of revenue from her (and those early days of revenue make more money-i.e., a two day pass is much more money for Disney per day than a 5 day) but may even get 4-5 days of revenue.

I think it is very possible WWHOP will not only NOT hurt Disney's bottom line, it may even help it. Would it have been helped even more if Disney actually had WWHOP, perhaps, but we still don't know. "Revenue lost is revenue lost" is not the entire story when it takes investment to make revenue. I bet UNI will have a much higher return on this investment than Disney would have had if it did WWHOP AND it's even possible Disney is going to be getting a return on UNI's investment, which is just free money. We just don't know yet.
 

RoRo

New Member
So Universal is lying??

From their website:



Also been confirmed with a friend who works for Loews Hotels.... So, what is it??

1. I was in the single rider line.

2. I saw people in the express queue. At the division point in the common room there is three lines. People were in every line including the express line. :wave:
 

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
"Revenue lost is revenue lost" is not the entire story when it takes investment to make revenue. I bet UNI will have a much higher return on this investment than Disney would have had if it did WWHOP AND it's even possible Disney is going to be getting a return on UNI's investment, which is just free money. We just don't know yet.


Yep. There is no revenue lost persay....just the opportunity cost of deciding not to persue the HP licensing. I also agree that HPland will probably not hurt Disney World's bottom line. And when FLE opens I bet the two areas will be complementary of each other and possibly boost overall tourist numbers versus canibalizing on the numbers of the other resort.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
In fact, rumors are pointing to expansion plans already being looked at. Don't forget, if they expand the land, there's no further licensing fees... Just the cost of expansion. And expansion means more revenue. And more revenue means more profit. They could add a show, more restaurants... Figure out a way to build a HP themed hotel, another super E ticket... Any number of things. They're not limited to what's already been built, and there's probably quite a few bean counters over there drooling.

They really have no expansion options do they? I'm not that familiar with Universal property, but I was under the impression that Potter was built right up against a High School (like the back of Hogwarts is about 50ft from the school football field)
 

DisneyJoe

Well-Known Member
I don't know if Times Square gets more people than WDW, but I don't have a hard time believing it. It's kind of an apples/oranges comparison, though, when you're comparing an open-air space to attendance at gated theme parks.

I agree - I'm not sure I would call Times Square a vacation destination....
 

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