Rivers Rowe
Member
Some people have too much time on their hands between trips and like to vent. Some people like to complain for the attention.
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People Seem Jaded About Disney World in General
- Thread starter pridejam02
- Start date
I am not meaning to make anyone upset or mad but I am a simple person that is a veteran and I wouldnt be able to go to disney with my family if it wasnt for the Disney military Discounts. He is the deal I think the Disney Corporation has gotten away from what Walt wanted. I think Walt wanted everyone to come to a Disney property and not feel that they were giving there families savings account to Disney. Walt demanded perfection and I believe that the Cast Members are doing there best with what they have. Think about it Walt Disney Created Disneyland because he wanted to go to a place to spend time with his children. Some of these rides that scare children are not in the framework of what Mr. Disney would have wanted. And slowly but surely Disney is creeping that way. I believe the vast majority of people that bring there family to a Disney property go for there children. I understand everyone does not have children I get that. I am just speaking in a general manner. I go to Disney to for my two daughters to see there faces light up with so much happiness that they feel like they are truly in the most Magical place on Earth. For me as a dad it doesnt get much better than that. Forget the napkins being wrong or the person ahead of you recieved a colder ice cream than what you did. That was all I was trying to get across when I created this thread.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
OMG, you too, bethymouse!!! I never thought I'd see you join us on The Dark Side.After our recent visit, I USED to be one to defend Disney to the end. I just saw too many things at all 4 parks and the poor old POLY that needed lots of love and attention. The costs cuts at Disney are obvious, and for those of us "die hard" Disney fans, it's disappointing!I will still always love Disney, but can't afford to go each year when they're so many "projects" going on and the prices of everything keep going up!
Been going to WDW for 30+ years. It was awesome then. It's still awesome now. But it has declined. Meanwhile, the competition is learning from Disney, slowly catching up. (I still wish WDW had WWOHP. Management at TWDC was so dumb for letting that one get away.)
More than anything, what stinks the most are the price increases. As I've posted before, WDW tickets are now 4 times more expensive (adjusted for inflation) then they were when I used to go as a student. Even with only a part time job, I remember thinking that ticket prices were reasonable on those trips. Not anymore! I greatly fear WDW is pricing itself out of the budget of many of its most devoted fans.
Your boys still might be WDW fans yet. They are at the in-between age where they want to do what the "big kids" are doing (i.e. thrill rides). My DS (16) loves roller coasters but, in the end, has turned back into being a WDW fan after a few years of roller coasters. My 3 DDs are WDW fans through-and-through. At least I did one thing right raising them.
Gabe1
Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
My thought is the parks were built with the bragging rights, above all theme parks on the details. The costumes for each role, the hidden details, every little thing created to enhance the magic. When the magical details are downgraded, disappear or neglected it takes little chips away from the magic. I agree, that doesn't make me jaded, more disappointed in Disney when they skimp on the details, neglect attractions or areas, or just omit some of the magic they once had. We are on a discussion board not a news only board, so discuss we do, I agree.
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
For a while I was questioning on whether I was actually becoming jaded and things weren't as bad as the forums can make them seem...
... then last week I finally made it over to Disneyland (which I will probably post a big thread on my thoughts about soon), after being a WDW person my entire life. And DLR's absolute perfect show quality, freshness, and perfection showed me that, no, I'm not jaded, WDW really is in bad shape.
... then last week I finally made it over to Disneyland (which I will probably post a big thread on my thoughts about soon), after being a WDW person my entire life. And DLR's absolute perfect show quality, freshness, and perfection showed me that, no, I'm not jaded, WDW really is in bad shape.
luv
Well-Known Member
I have never complained at Guest Services. I stopped in once to tell them about something that was broken and dangerous...but just to let them know, not to complain.
I think Disney management is well aware of their problems. And if they aren't, they darn well ought to be. They don't need me to come in there and tell them the place is too dirty, the staff is sometimes rude and a bunch of rides are closing early, etc. That stuff irks me, so I complain about it here, lol, but I leave Guest Services alone.
They already know and they don't care.
Why bother?
I think Disney management is well aware of their problems. And if they aren't, they darn well ought to be. They don't need me to come in there and tell them the place is too dirty, the staff is sometimes rude and a bunch of rides are closing early, etc. That stuff irks me, so I complain about it here, lol, but I leave Guest Services alone.
They already know and they don't care.
Why bother?
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say I'm jaded at all. I'm not tired of WDW for no good reason or from going too often, I'm simply very disappointed because I have personally experienced it at a time that most people would probably agree to be its best (or somewhere close to it anyways). My lack of satisfaction is not from over-doing the place and becoming bored with going all the time, it's because WDW itself has changed for the worse since my many visits during the 90's.
No, the people who express dissatisfaction are simply realistic. And they are almost always the most fair and level-headed on these boards. I see no reason why it's unfair to express such views as it involves real facts, logic, and reasoning behind it, not just eyes and ears clouded with pixie dust or whatever you like. It's not like there are a billion threads just saying Disney sucks for no reason, they're always accompanied by an explanation as to exactly why something isn't the way it should be and evidence to prove it. We're simply aware that having been visiting for decades, there has been a gradual but obvious overall decline in the way WDW is run and treated over the course of the past 15+ years or so. Heck, it wasn't even gradual for me, I went in '97 just when things were only starting to get worse and only returned afterwards in 2010 where I got the full dosage of just how much went wrong over that course of time (it was a very painful shock). I can say right now that if WDW was given the same love and care it received in the early-mid 90's and before, this discussion would most likely not exist (at least not in this form apart from your general "Disneyland vs WDW" type of argument. Hell, i'd probably be at the parks right this very minute. It would be very difficult to stay away if they were as they were.
And to elaborate, this decline is not just some random "feeling" that things aren't quite right that I can't explain, like a bit of over-inflated nostalgia that the real thing couldn't ever live up to. The problems are many and blatant, you can easily put your finger on all the things that have been subtracted over the years. This goes way beyond coke cups, napkins, burned out lights, or generic merchandise complaints. There's the more substantial things like major broken show elements of attractions that remain that way for years (if not forever). And there's the immensely disappointing things like closing classic and perfectly good attractions and replacing them with either objectively worse attractions (Imagination, Mission Space, Test Track, Spaceship Earth) or just shuttering them with nothing at all in its place (Imageworks, Wonders of Life).
And then you've got people like '74, Lee, Raven, Martin, and others. Members here who have real connections within the Disney company and continually provide accurate information on the inner workings. Time and time again proving to everyone they know what they're talking about. And it's pretty unanimous among them that there have been serious problems with Disney and especially the way WDW has been negatively dealt with during the past two decades.
No, the people who express dissatisfaction are simply realistic. And they are almost always the most fair and level-headed on these boards. I see no reason why it's unfair to express such views as it involves real facts, logic, and reasoning behind it, not just eyes and ears clouded with pixie dust or whatever you like. It's not like there are a billion threads just saying Disney sucks for no reason, they're always accompanied by an explanation as to exactly why something isn't the way it should be and evidence to prove it. We're simply aware that having been visiting for decades, there has been a gradual but obvious overall decline in the way WDW is run and treated over the course of the past 15+ years or so. Heck, it wasn't even gradual for me, I went in '97 just when things were only starting to get worse and only returned afterwards in 2010 where I got the full dosage of just how much went wrong over that course of time (it was a very painful shock). I can say right now that if WDW was given the same love and care it received in the early-mid 90's and before, this discussion would most likely not exist (at least not in this form apart from your general "Disneyland vs WDW" type of argument. Hell, i'd probably be at the parks right this very minute. It would be very difficult to stay away if they were as they were.
And to elaborate, this decline is not just some random "feeling" that things aren't quite right that I can't explain, like a bit of over-inflated nostalgia that the real thing couldn't ever live up to. The problems are many and blatant, you can easily put your finger on all the things that have been subtracted over the years. This goes way beyond coke cups, napkins, burned out lights, or generic merchandise complaints. There's the more substantial things like major broken show elements of attractions that remain that way for years (if not forever). And there's the immensely disappointing things like closing classic and perfectly good attractions and replacing them with either objectively worse attractions (Imagination, Mission Space, Test Track, Spaceship Earth) or just shuttering them with nothing at all in its place (Imageworks, Wonders of Life).
And then you've got people like '74, Lee, Raven, Martin, and others. Members here who have real connections within the Disney company and continually provide accurate information on the inner workings. Time and time again proving to everyone they know what they're talking about. And it's pretty unanimous among them that there have been serious problems with Disney and especially the way WDW has been negatively dealt with during the past two decades.
real mad hatter
Well-Known Member
Just had my breakfast,porridge oats wae milk and sugar to heat me up,then I hear that there's people complaining about WDW.That's it,pack yer bags and get out the bubble. But you'll always get the ones who complain about little things in life,sure if it's something serious,kick ,but if your champagne glass is short of bubbles,get a life.Now where's my spoon to stir this porridge
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
If Walt Disney World is just some silly little thing, what is wrong with you that you spend so much time and money on it? People complain because they do not see Disney's themed entertainment as a triviality.Just had my breakfast,porridge oats wae milk and sugar to heat me up,then I hear that there's people complaining about WDW.That's it,pack yer bags and get out the bubble. But you'll always get the ones who complain about little things in life,sure if it's something serious,kick ,but if your champagne glass is short of bubbles,get a life.Now where's my spoon to stir this porridge
sgtmgd
Well-Known Member
You make a good point but Id counter it with your own words...you are a Veteran as am I (23 years AD) now retired. Disney has always treated military familes with reverence..knowing full well most wouldnt afford a trip to Disney without the Discounts...OR Shades of Green (which I personally dont care for). Id also add that Value resorts enable families of a lower income level the ability to stay on property and enjoy the Disney Bubble they normally wouldnt be able to afford. Throw in a free dining plan here or there and it makes a difference. Payments...Disney allows you 18 months to pay off your trip....thats a huge benefit in my opinion...$200.00 place holds a magical vacation for your family..not many places will do that for you. There are differences in the type of vacation you want to have...but trust me the prices in 1971 were high for that time period so nothing has changed there. You dont have to break the bank to go visit Disney with proper planning and bugeting...the problem is most people want instant gratification and dont have the foresight to plan a trip 18 months out and pay a monthly sum to Disney to pay it off..Im not jaded in my thinking about Disney...I love it and dont see the gloom and doom that some seem to prefer...I was there over labor day and a week over new years and have a trip booked over X-mas 2013...and will probaly find time to fly down before then..Disney is refurbishing things daily...expansions currently in progress and future ones planned....Hell look a the Splash Mountain monster thread that reading it I felt like I was going to see it wrapped in duct tape...alas it wasnt and low and behold its going down for a 3 month refurb...and I bet a mickey ice cream bar...people here will STILL complain it wont be enough...but thats the essence of todays society...its never enough.
SulleyanBoo
Well-Known Member
I totally understand where you are coming from. But, the more you love something, the more you almost hold it up to a higher standard. And for the amount of money we are paying to go also plays into a factor of holding WDW to a higher standard. And, it's not only that.. but it's that most of us love it so much that anything we see that is making it look bad, we are going to want it taken care of. I do not agree with those who continuously bash irrelevant topics such as turkey legs ect. But as far as corperate, cleanliness, maintenance, guest service or other things along of this sort are legitimate things to discuss in my opinion. And when it's discussed, it is disscussed because we don't want it to be that way for the fact that we love Disney World and want it to be the best that it can be.
bubbles1812
Well-Known Member
Just had my breakfast,porridge oats wae milk and sugar to heat me up,then I hear that there's people complaining about WDW.That's it,pack yer bags and get out the bubble. But you'll always get the ones who complain about little things in life,sure if it's something serious,kick ,but if your champagne glass is short of bubbles,get a life.Now where's my spoon to stir this porridge
To take your example, what happens when the champagne starts being short a lot of bubbles? Flat champagne isn't so much fun to drink as stuff that still has those bubbles. To just say "pack yer bags and get out of the bubble" is basically the equivalent of dismissing the problems WDW has. There are big problems to be sure and those are the ones I usually focus on the most. But there are also minor problems that could be relatively easily rectified such as issues with maintenance...most of the rides do not and should not be in the condition they are in. Take a look at the Maelstrom thread for that.
I do not discuss the problems at Disney because I am "jaded" or because I hate the place. I bring up the problems because I love the place and want it to be the way I absolutely know it could be...if a management team (at the Orlando level and above) were in place that actually cared not just about pleasing their stockholders but also about their customers, who spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to make their Disney trips happen.
Someone earlier in this thread talked about how people complain about NFE... I'll use it as an example to illustrate my position when it comes to WDW as a whole. I do not hate the NFE addition. Not at all. From the pics I've seen it looks beautifully themed. Disney does still does themed well. I am sure I will enjoy to the rides when I am there. I am sure I will enjoy the restaurant. And I am sure I will even enjoy the new M&Gs when they arrive because I still enjoy those. It is a "nice" smallish (relatively) addition to a park that really needed some capacity issues addressed. Again, I don't hate it and I'm sure I will enjoy it whenever it's finally completed.
Now, that being said, while the addition in and of itself doesn't bother me, it does accentuate some of the issues at WDW, at least for me. Like I said, I'm sure the rides will be cute and enjoyable, but they aren't E tickets. I don't need an E ticket ride every second of the day but the last time MK got an E ticket was the addition of Splash Mountain! It's been a long time and the park needs one. It's also been proven that big big rides do draw in customers more so than most other things. The last time WDW as a whole got an E ticket was 6 years ago with the addition of EE, a ride whose main claim to fame is an AA that has now been broken for years. All the parks, some more than others, but all the parks need some major additions. But instead we get closures or replacements. Returning to NFE...was it necessary for Snow White's Scary Adventures to be ripped out? Nope. I am sure there was a way they could have kept that ride, still built their M&G, and built the Mine Train. Having two rides themed to the same movie near each other has worked just fine at DL, so why not WDW. What's more is that NFE was honestly an addition that should have been added years ago to address the capacity issue within MK. It should not have taken this long to get built but as others have pointed out, the business model on which Disney operates has changed. Where there should be innovation, there is instead stagnation on many fronts. Where problems should be addressed, they are ignored. And where the little details that used to make Disney so unique, special, and dare I say magical, in terms of experience used to be maintained and often enhanced, they are now cut, with cost as a general excuse...meanwhile the company keeps having record profit years and the bonuses for execs keep getting bigger and bigger.
Sorry for the length of this thing but I hope what I wrote demonstrates that I am not jaded, as it was phrased. When I go to WDW, there are still many many things I enjoy. I love Splash Mountain even as a cringe if I notice a broken AA but I don't actively search for things that bother me, at least while I'm there. But I like coming here and knowing no, I am not the only one who loves the place, but also sees the problems that needs to be discussed. I don't think we are here can inspire huge change, but I can at least hope that sometime or another, these threads are read, and someone higher up at least realizes that hey, people are seeing the problems and something needs to be done. And in the meantime I'll continue to watch a certain wizard kick Mickey's butt.
bubbles1812
Well-Known Member
If they fix at least the majority of the broken things...say the things that have been broken for years such as virtually everything in the Laughin' Place, I will temper my complaining. But Splash has major issues. For everything to be truly addressed, it probably needs about a years worth of rehab. But it is said that I only place them fixing just the Laughin place alone at 50/50. I think it's reasonable that if Disney does not fix many the show quality in most places, people will have a legitimate reason to point out the problems that Disney yet again, after many years of one month refurbs and now this longer one...still hasn't addressed.
We are a never enough society and believe me, my generation is especially guilty of it, but I don't think this is a case where that applies when Disney isn't following the standards it used to set for itself.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Of course, one of the real problems with this or any other Disney based site is that we are a huge minority. Most people do not spend hours on discussion forums or even think about Disney other then perhaps when they are deciding where to take there next vacation.
We, collectively, are the only ones that would go on Splash Mtn. and know if an AA is broken or if it is just an immobile scene filler. They aren't disappointed or upset, because they are enjoying the experience and not getting all bogged down in details. I'm not saying that the details are not part of what makes Disney, but I am saying that for every 1 AA that might be broken at the time, 100 are working just fine and that is what the majority are seeing.
I think that they need to shut down EE and fix the Yeti because it was designed to be an intricate part of the ride. Reality is that you go by that area so fast that it is a nano second of exposure and sometimes if you happen to be looking the other way, or like me and have your eyes closed and are white knuckling the bar while screaming like a little girl, don't even see it fixed or broken.
People say that you wouldn't find things like that in the early years, but I clearly remember a AA chicken on Tom Sawyer Island in the middle 80's that wasn't working. I was never sure if it was supposed to be working or not but based on the configuration and the surroundings I assumed it was. You know what I noticed the most or cared about the most was not that it wasn't working at the moment of my arrival but that it was filthy. It and it's fellow chickens in the display. Just grungy looking. Remember that was in the "glory" years when everything was perfect.
I am sometimes considered a WDW apologist and I suppose I could be looked at that way. I prefer to think of my self as a "fact checker". Those that feel that I am an apologist think that I am unable to see the condition and am too willing to give Disney a pass on it. I see them as living in a not real world of the past. A past when we all were new to the game and saw the bright colors and tried to take in the massiveness that is WDW. They remember things the way they think they saw them at the time, not the way they really were.
Those of us considered fans fail to see the real unruly giant that WDW has become. We live in our little households with our 2.5 children and try to make ends meet and get upset when an appliance breaks or the car needs new tires and we look at it through a narrow window and wonder where we will get the money to do it. Unless you are Donald Trump you cannot even grasp the numbers that Disney deals with everyday, not only in the form of Guests but in the form of expense and costs. We pass out demands that they should spend billions on things for our entertainment and never give a thought to just where those billions come from.
We even toss around the words "billions of dollars" like it is just so much parking meter change. We make it sound as simple as "here's 10 bucks, go buy yourself something nice". Build this, build that, level that other thing (I don't like it), move this attraction 5 miles down the road to a different park, like it is on coasters and can just be rolled from one spot to another. It does indeed get tiring to read over and over.
Now to get ahead of those that are about to say...well you don't have to read those threads, you are correct. I don't have to shower either but if I want to stay clean, I will. If I want to stay current with one of my favorite spots, then I must try and sort out the wheat from the chaff. That means that I will probably have to read something in order to find out if I agree or not. Of course, in this case, agreeing means I can comment and not agreeing means that I must stand aside and be silent. Sorry wrong station.
We, collectively, are the only ones that would go on Splash Mtn. and know if an AA is broken or if it is just an immobile scene filler. They aren't disappointed or upset, because they are enjoying the experience and not getting all bogged down in details. I'm not saying that the details are not part of what makes Disney, but I am saying that for every 1 AA that might be broken at the time, 100 are working just fine and that is what the majority are seeing.
I think that they need to shut down EE and fix the Yeti because it was designed to be an intricate part of the ride. Reality is that you go by that area so fast that it is a nano second of exposure and sometimes if you happen to be looking the other way, or like me and have your eyes closed and are white knuckling the bar while screaming like a little girl, don't even see it fixed or broken.
People say that you wouldn't find things like that in the early years, but I clearly remember a AA chicken on Tom Sawyer Island in the middle 80's that wasn't working. I was never sure if it was supposed to be working or not but based on the configuration and the surroundings I assumed it was. You know what I noticed the most or cared about the most was not that it wasn't working at the moment of my arrival but that it was filthy. It and it's fellow chickens in the display. Just grungy looking. Remember that was in the "glory" years when everything was perfect.
I am sometimes considered a WDW apologist and I suppose I could be looked at that way. I prefer to think of my self as a "fact checker". Those that feel that I am an apologist think that I am unable to see the condition and am too willing to give Disney a pass on it. I see them as living in a not real world of the past. A past when we all were new to the game and saw the bright colors and tried to take in the massiveness that is WDW. They remember things the way they think they saw them at the time, not the way they really were.
Those of us considered fans fail to see the real unruly giant that WDW has become. We live in our little households with our 2.5 children and try to make ends meet and get upset when an appliance breaks or the car needs new tires and we look at it through a narrow window and wonder where we will get the money to do it. Unless you are Donald Trump you cannot even grasp the numbers that Disney deals with everyday, not only in the form of Guests but in the form of expense and costs. We pass out demands that they should spend billions on things for our entertainment and never give a thought to just where those billions come from.
We even toss around the words "billions of dollars" like it is just so much parking meter change. We make it sound as simple as "here's 10 bucks, go buy yourself something nice". Build this, build that, level that other thing (I don't like it), move this attraction 5 miles down the road to a different park, like it is on coasters and can just be rolled from one spot to another. It does indeed get tiring to read over and over.
Now to get ahead of those that are about to say...well you don't have to read those threads, you are correct. I don't have to shower either but if I want to stay clean, I will. If I want to stay current with one of my favorite spots, then I must try and sort out the wheat from the chaff. That means that I will probably have to read something in order to find out if I agree or not. Of course, in this case, agreeing means I can comment and not agreeing means that I must stand aside and be silent. Sorry wrong station.
tracyandalex
Well-Known Member
I think the issue has many different sides. First, society has changed and people don't stop and notice the details as much as they used to so TDO has seemingly decided not to focus on them as much. Second, the majority of the visitors to WDW are not chronic repeat visitors so they do not notice as many of the issues as many of the folks on this board notice. Third, many folks on this board know the parks and attractions so well that they notice when little things are different and for them it stands out more and seems like a larger problem. Fourth, the WDW parks are still the highest attendance parks so there is no real incentive for TDO to step it up, so far the bottom line hasn't really been effected. I do think that the time is fast approaching when WDW will price itself out for many families. I am not one of the full of pixie dust fans, but at the same time I'd really seem to notice a lot of the issues that are mentioned. Also, because I have no idea what goes on in the upper level management discussions I mostly just absorb the comments on this board as information and wait to see where things go. I find it interesting that Universal changes things all the time and folks don't get as upset as Disney changing things. I know UNI doesn't have the same nostalgia factor as WDW and this might just be my generation talking, but change will come and you can either embrace it and make the best of it or you can get left behind. Whether a change is for the better or not is very subjective. I know a lot of folks on this board don't really like the Nemo overlay of the Seas, but my DD loves it and she is the future lifelong (hopefully) customer of WDW. DD also loves the Imagination ride. Would she have liked the original better? Who knows, but she loves it as it is now so for her it was a success.
So any way, my point is there are many different factors to the current state of the parks and because the vast majority of WDW guests do not belong to this board you get a somewhat limited view of guest opinions of the parks. We still love going to WDW so we will continue to go until we get priced out!
So any way, my point is there are many different factors to the current state of the parks and because the vast majority of WDW guests do not belong to this board you get a somewhat limited view of guest opinions of the parks. We still love going to WDW so we will continue to go until we get priced out!
Vader2112
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with the sports fan analogy. Watch what happens when a troll comes on the boards here and bad mouths Disney... They get taken down quickly even by some of the tougher critics on here. I beleive the majority 98% of the folks who post on this site regulary love WDW flaws included. It is just that we all like the attention to detail and perfection like qualitiy that Disney displays in it's parks and resorts that when something falls short we are taken back. Of course there are things we are all not going to like and I for one enjoying reading abut the tech issues or customer service drama (which I have never experienced after over 25 visits!) This way I can share my experience or share if I noticed a repair on a recent trip.
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
Some people are more easily pleased, some have greater expectations, some people are willing to accept anything because of brand loyalty. This is the internet even morons are free to express their ill informed opinion.