Pay more, get less. When does it end?

[BrerJon]

Guys, if anyone wasn't alive in the 80s or 90s and want to experience and understand what the old guys are going on about, just go to Tokyo Disneyland.

There's your parallel universe, where the Disney of the 80s continued on a parallel track without declining by degrees like the American parks.

Tokyo Disneyland has much, much cheaper tickets than WDW. The parks are maintained spotlessly, not a broken bulb or animatronic in sight. The parades put anything in the USA to shame, especially at night, and the Cast Member attention to guest needs, and attention to detail in general, is exemplary.

Although attendance is just as high - higher even - the way crowds are managed, restrained Fastpass usage and the variety and location of attractions means lines are generally much shorter.

And guess what - far from the 'Disney would be bankrupt' crowd would have you believe, despite investing in attractions, maintenance and keeping to a strict high standard in every aspect, Tokyo Disneyland is very, very profitable, and earns just as much money as WDW does.

So want to take a trip back in time to Disney of the 80s? Take a trip to Tokyo!

 

[John park hopper]

Guys, if anyone wasn't alive in the 80s or 90s and want to experience and understand what the old guys are going on about, just go to Tokyo Disneyland.

There's your parallel universe, where the Disney of the 80s continued on a parallel track without declining by degrees like the American parks.

Tokyo Disneyland has much, much cheaper tickets than WDW. The parks are maintained spotlessly, not a broken bulb or animatronic in sight. The parades put anything in the USA to shame, especially at night, and the Cast Member attention to guest needs, and attention to detail in general, is exemplary.

Although attendance is just as high - higher even - the way crowds are managed, restrained Fastpass usage and the variety and location of attractions means lines are generally much shorter.

And guess what - far from the 'Disney would be bankrupt' crowd would have you believe, despite investing in attractions, maintenance and keeping to a strict high standard in every aspect, Tokyo Disneyland is very, very profitable, and earns just as much money as WDW does.

So want to take a trip back in time to Disney of the 80s? Take a trip to Tokyo!

I would say the Japanese culture has a lot to do with the higher standards. Wish I could afford to go I remember the 70's-90's well

 

[eliza61nyc]

It’s always busy and they have to do it sometime.

LOL, off topic but relevant. I live in Center City Philadelphia. Like many cities the infrastructure is getting old and needs to be updated. well of course folks don't want it done in the day because of traffic nightmares but of course don't do it at night because my babies are trying to sleep.
umm not during the day, not a night. Is there some thing else?

 

[aw14]

I expected a $400+/night "deluxe" resort to not perform construction during the busy season.

Yeah, I know...it's really asking a lot.

That didn’t answer the questions. Right now, it seems like you’re complaining for the sake of complaining. There were other options in the situation you provided. I have stayed at a deluxe and had similar issues, and asked to be moved. I was moved within 24 hours.

 

[pax_65]

Bought DVC when it was cheap. Sitting at the pool is a great pass time. Does Disney have parks?

Hmmm, wonder when they will have a pool charge based on length of stay.

Ha! I think about this too... maybe going to WDW and not getting a park pass. Just spend a lot of time by the pool, maybe explore some of the other things around Orlando. Take an alligator tour, visit the Kennedy Space Center.

Don't get me wrong I love the parks but I'd have less to complain about if I didn't spend so much money down there.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Guys, if anyone wasn't alive in the 80s or 90s and want to experience and understand what the old guys are going on about, just go to Tokyo Disneyland.

There's your parallel universe, where the Disney of the 80s continued on a parallel track without declining by degrees like the American parks.

Tokyo Disneyland has much, much cheaper tickets than WDW. The parks are maintained spotlessly, not a broken bulb or animatronic in sight. The parades put anything in the USA to shame, especially at night, and the Cast Member attention to guest needs, and attention to detail in general, is exemplary.

Although attendance is just as high - higher even - the way crowds are managed, restrained Fastpass usage and the variety and location of attractions means lines are generally much shorter.

And guess what - far from the 'Disney would be bankrupt' crowd would have you believe, despite investing in attractions, maintenance and keeping to a strict high standard in every aspect, Tokyo Disneyland is very, very profitable, and earns just as much money as WDW does.

So want to take a trip back in time to Disney of the 80s? Take a trip to Tokyo!

I've been to Tokyo Disney multiple times. People have something to do with the cleaninliness there. Japan is about the cleanest country in the world and people have respect for property.

WDW is also very clean and has a lot more slobs coming through.

Disney doesn't break out profitability by park so you aren't basing your statement on facts. In fact, Domestic Parks bring in about $15B of the $18B in total Parks/Resorts revenue.

That said, Tokyo Disney does not earn as much money as WDW. That would be impossible. It's way smaller, has 2 fewer parks, way fewer hotels, and 10s of million fewer annual visitors.

WDW is about 25,000 acres. Tokyo Disney is less than 500.

As far as it being cheaper...there's a lot less to do. I love it though, it's just not WDW.

 

[pax_65]

WDW is also very clean and has a lot more slobs coming through.

On my first trip to WDW in 1991, my wife's family challenged me to find a SINGLE piece of trash or gum or anything in any of the parks. It took me DAYS to find anything, and when I did I was like "LOOK!" and at that moment a cast member was there to clean it up. The parks were immaculate.

I think Americans were just as much slobs in 1991 as today, but it is true that the parks are more crowded today - especially Magic Kingdom. I'd be curious to know what the sanitation budget looks like today versus 1991 (adjusted for inflation, obviously).

Please understand, I'm not saying the parks aren't in good shape today. They are! And the cast members do an excellent job keeping the parks clean. But like so many other things in the parks, they have been allowed to slip a little - maybe not enough for the average guest to notice. Like a slightly longer line, a slightly longer wait for a bus, an attraction element that doesn't work (or maybe just has a light flashing on him) - these shouldn't be things that wreck your vacation but some of us notice...

 

[baymenxpac]

i think some people need to get past the desire to see things in black-and-white. you don't have to be satisfied with every single facet of the WDW experience to still want to go. these two things are not mutually exclusive.

the title of this post is literally, "pay more, get less: when does it end?" and that's a fair question. like an earlier poster said, many companies start out providing great value and building a reputation just to coast on that reputation later and provide something a little less great. but as the consumer, i think it's logical to ask, "okay...WDW might not be what it once was. i still enjoy it, buuuuut....we're not going to keep trending downward, are we?"

i'm really glad they've realized that they have a major problem at DHS and epcot, and are working to fix it. i'm not going to throw a fit over the attractions they've chosen, because whether or not i agree with it creatively from a thematic standpoint, i'm happy with the expenditure. i would be even happier if they didn't let situations get to borderline decay before they decided to make enhancements and improvements, but c'est la vie.

however, i'd be remiss if i didn't mention missing the little touches that made the place stand out. i'm not going to have a nuclear meltdown over the butter at the brown derby no longer being in the shape of little derbies, but leaving the AC too warm inside attractions in central florida in the summer? c'mon, that's silliness. if the mini fridge in my OKW studio had a leak (like it did on the trip that my wife and i got engaged on), i shouldn't have to have maintenance come up to my room three times and still not fix the problem, which left our room smelling of mildew for the entire week we were there. if you're making money hand over fist, you shouldn't run a company like it's on austerity. because people are paying a premium, now so more than ever, and they expect to level of service to match that fact.

 

[HansGruber]

i think some people need to get past the desire to see things in black-and-white. you don't have to be satisfied with every single facet of the WDW experience to still want to go. these two things are not mutually exclusive.

Most people need to get past seeing things in black-and-white. It's truly amazing how people can't follow a simple debate or topic. Most here twist your words and go off on irrelevant tangents.

however, i'd be remiss if i didn't mention missing the little touches that made the place stand out. i'm not going to have a nuclear meltdown over the butter at the brown derby no longer being in the shape of little derbies, but leaving the AC too warm inside attractions in central florida in the summer? c'mon, that's silliness. if the mini fridge in my OKW studio had a leak (like it did on the trip that my wife and i got engaged on), i shouldn't have to have maintenance come up to my room three times and still not fix the problem, which left our room smelling of mildew for the entire week we were there. if you're making money hand over fist, you shouldn't run a company like it's on austerity. because people are paying a premium, now so more than ever, and they expect to level of service to match that fact.

I didn't inquire or investigate too deeply, but I did notice the temperate in our room was locked to 68 degrees. The thermostat controls didn't do anything. Is this a new thing? Again, a deluxe resort.
Maybe my body changes with age, but I also noticed the AC wasn't so great in certain attractions or shops.

 

[21stamps]

I expected a $400+/night "deluxe" resort to not perform construction during the busy season.

Yeah, I know...it's really asking a lot.

You didn’t know about any construction ahead of time?

 

[pax_65]

Maybe my body changes with age, but I also noticed the AC wasn't so great in certain attractions or shops.

I didn't notice this on my trip but with Disney's philosophy recently you have to wonder... if they could raise AC thermostats one degree across the entire resort, how much $$$ would that save? Most guests probably wouldn't notice or complain. So what if a few sensitive guests are a little uncomfortable?

 

[21stamps]

@HansGruber, you're arguing with apologists who prey on threads likes yours. It's mother's milk to them. Turn back, turn back before it's too late.

In all seriousness, I’ve never heard of Disney failing to notify someone of any construction. I’ve stayed at Poly, GF, and WL the past 2.5 years.. all of which have had some form of construction during my stay. I also paid a heck of a lot more than $400 per night.. I received an email notifying me of the closures/construction, and I made the decision to stay there anyway.
2 of the dates were Thanksgiving week, and one was over Labor Day.

I’m just curious if he was notified as well. It’s a fair question.

 

[21stamps]

If I was paying $40 a night - I wouldn't want construction. It's a fair expectation.

It's like ordering a plate of pancakes (we're sorry, sir, we can't guarantee that the pancakes will be perfect), so, ok. And then, they arrive with a topping of waterbugs. Well, too bad! It's the customer's fault.

It’s the customer’s decision if they were notified, that’s why I asked.

I’d rather stay at Poly or GF with a bit of construction, than at any other resort sans construction. Some people would not, but I don't think anyone arrives without knowing prior to arrival.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I expected a $400+/night "deluxe" resort to not perform construction during the busy season.

Yeah, I know...it's really asking a lot.

People like you: "Waaaah there was construction during my stay."

Also people like you: "Waaaah why doesn't Disney do enough to maintain their facilities they should be doing constant work to keep things new and fresh."

I've got a stay at CSR in just over two months... Nobody's mentioned construction to me.

Dear XXXXX Family,

We are delighted you have chosen to stay with us at Disney's Art of Animation Resort!

Walt Disney once spoke of how his creations would never be complete as long as there is imagination left in the world. It is in this spirit that we have embarked on creating a new transportation system, Disney Skyliner, which will give Guests a bird’s-eye view of Walt Disney World® Resort while traveling via gondolas. This transportation system will connect future Guests of Disney's Art of Animation Resort with Disney’s Hollywood Studios®, the International Gateway at Epcot® and other Resorts.

While we work our magic, the Resort will be in full operation with all amenities available to you, including our dining, merchandise and recreation locations. It is possible that you may see or hear construction, but noise should not be heard from your Guest room between dusk and 9:00am. We apologize for any inconvenience this work may cause and appreciate your patience and understanding. Please know we are making every effort to ensure your comfort and enjoyment.

If you have questions or need assistance prior to your arrival, please call the Disney Reservation Center at 407-939-7696 between the hours of 7:00am-11:00pm (ET).

General Manager Renae Brock and the team at Disney's Art of Animation Resort look forward to your arrival and wish you a truly magical stay!

Sincerely,
Disney Destinations, LLC
Reservation #: 4XXXXXXXXXXX

@HansGruber, you're arguing with apologists who prey on threads likes yours. It's mother's milk to them. Turn back, turn back before it's too late.

Yeah it's totally weird that there are people who like Walt Disney World here on this Walt Disney World fan site. What a bunch of pixie-dust-snorting TDO shills, amirite?

 

[eliza61nyc]

@HansGruber, you're arguing with apologists who prey on threads likes yours. It's mother's milk to them. Turn back, turn back before it's too late.

lol, Naw. the title included a question. "When will it end"??
It ends when the person complaining stops going. seems pretty simple to me. I will agree that I see things in black and white, I've admitted, I ain't that deep when it comes to vacations. I either think they are worthwhile or I don't. If I don't think they are worth what I paid or worth my time, I don't go anymore.

In my house the vacation conversations go like this.
Mr. What should we do for vacation this year
Mrs. I don't know, throw out some ideas
Mr. what about Disney? or fill in whatever vacation destination one is considering.
Mrs. Naw, way to crowded and not as nice as it use to be.
Mr. Ok, how about a week at the shore.
Mrs. sounds good, I'll see what's available.

That's pretty much as hard as it gets in my house. that's pretty black and white. straight forward.

 

[TiggerDad]

I've been to Tokyo Disney multiple times.
...
Disney doesn't break out profitability by park so you aren't basing your statement on facts. In fact, Domestic Parks bring in about $15B of the $18B in total Parks/Resorts revenue.

Congratulations on having been to Tokyo Disney multiple times. Unfortunately, you're the one who isn't basing statements on facts. Tokyo Disney is not owned by Disney, but rather by a company called OLC. Therefore, its revenue is not included in the $18B total parks/resorts revenue figure you quote, because it's owned by OLC, not by Disney. There's also a difference between revenue and profitability.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Tokyo Disney is not owned by Disney, but rather by a company called OLC. Therefore, its revenue is not included in the $18B total parks/resorts revenue figure you quote, because it's owned by OLC, not by Disney.

This is half true, half false. Yes, Tokyo Disneyland is owned by The Oriental Land Company. However, OLC pays The Walt Disney Company a hefty royalty fee, which absolutely is included in the Parks & Resorts segment financial statements.

 

[MinnieWaffles]

row row row the stirrer, gently round the pot...the op's friday night was too boring, so why not poke the forums a lot...

 

[Chef Mickey]

Congratulations on having been to Tokyo Disney multiple times. Unfortunately, you're the one who isn't basing statements on facts. Tokyo Disney is not owned by Disney, but rather by a company called OLC. Therefore, its revenue is not included in the $18B total parks/resorts revenue figure you quote, because it's owned by OLC, not by Disney. There's also a difference between revenue and profitability.

You think you're breaking news that the OLC owns Tokyo Disney?

You also don't think that the licensing fees are included in the Parks/Resorts line item?

I'll say it again. It is impossible for Tokyo Disney to make the same amount of money as WDW, which is what you said when you said Tokyo "earns just as much money as WDW does." This explicitly states their profit is as much as WDW, which is wrong. You could try to surmise their margins are better, but I also doubt that with ticket prices being significantly less (literally almost half).

Sales wouldn't be close and neither would profit. Actually, not even on the same planet. I would bet WDW is responsible for at least half of all Parks and Resorts sales AND profit. We know $18B is the sales figure. We know $15B of that is America, so just Disney World and Disneyland. So Disney world would only have to do $9B in sales to be half of the world figure and that would mean Disneyland did $6B (probably high with half the parks and 3 hotels).

I also don't need you to tell me revenue and profitability are different, lol. I work in finance for a living at a Fortune 10 company.

So, yes, you are wrong and the licensing arrangement that literally everyone on this board knows is in place, doesn't change that.

 

[aw14]

We stayed at Poly during the construction back in '15 I believe. The room we had in the Hawaii building was not what we thought we were getting. We spoke to Concierge, moved our 2nd floor theme park view to a 3rd floor theme park view closer to the club lounge and away from the construction. Was not hard, took a conversation.

Additionally, we were notified well in advance of the construction at Poly, and made the choice to stay there.