Pay more, get less. When does it end?

[John park hopper]

Competition drives the market wake up Disney your not the only game in town

 

[eliza61nyc]

Competition drives the market wake up Disney your not the only game in town

Lol, now how come when I say stop going, its a big world, I'm the bad guy.
Way too many vacation options on this planer to waste money AND valuable vacation time on places that disappoint you. (General term, not you specifically)

 

[John park hopper]

Lol, now how come when I say stop going, its a big world, I'm the bad guy.
Way too many vacation options on this planer to waste money AND valuable vacation time on places that disappoint you. (General term, not you specifically)

Post wasn't meant to imply I did not like WDW as a matter of fact going in 2019.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Post wasn't meant to imply I did not like WDW as a matter of fact going in 2019.

oh I know, I didn't take it that way. I actually meant that I wish more folks recognized that Disney is no longer the only game in town. the only way they'll recognize that is if we start showing them that. that's why I said I was speaking "generally".

The op had one thing correct, the consumer is in the driving seat, there are so many options for our vacation dollars. look at the cruise industry, I remember when it was basically for older adults, now they have stepped up their game to the point they offer incredible options for families.

lol, heck at one time Vegas was trying to get a piece of the "family" travel budget.

 

[John park hopper]

oh I know, I didn't take it that way. I actually meant that I wish more folks recognized that Disney is no longer the only game in town. the only way they'll recognize that is if we start showing them that. that's why I said I was speaking "generally".

The op had one thing correct, the consumer is in the driving seat, there are so many options for our vacation dollars. look at the cruise industry, I remember when it was basically for older adults, now they have stepped up their game to the point they offer incredible options for families.

lol, heck at one time Vegas was trying to get a piece of the "family" travel budget.

Exactly we opted out of a 2018 WDW vacation for 2018 and did a Holland America 2 week cruise up the Alaskan coast in June. I can't say enough about how great Holland America was the food and service and staff IMO far exceeded what one would get at WDW. It got to the point told the wife I could not eat another piece of cheese cake. The scenery was breath taking. Granted a cruise like this is a totally different experience than WDW and other than paying for off ship excursions there were no up charges. Doing a Caribbean cruise Holland America 11 day and a short 7 day WDW in 2019

 

[Willmark]

It ends when you decide to stop going.

At this point that very well may be what we’re looking at.

And here’s the rub: were EXACTLY the customer Disney wants: UMC family of 4, Top 30% quartile of income with enough disposable income to pay cash. We fly in, stay on prem and don’t rent a car. We don’t do the dining plan and are no where as demanding as a DVC or annual pass holder can be. Currently, we visit every year to 18 months.

Now? Strongly considering elsewhere. I’m fine with charging premium prices but you had better deliver a premium experience. IMO Disney is no longer delivering a premium experience. YMMV.

 

[Chef Mickey]

At this point that very well may be what we’re looking at.

And here’s the rub: were EXACTLY the customer Disney wants: UMC family of 4, Top 30% quartile of income with enough disposable income to pay cash. We fly in, stay on prem and don’t rent a car. We don’t do the dining plan and are no where as demanding as a DVC or annual pass holder can be. Currently, we visit every year to 18 months.

Now? Strongly considering elsewhere. I’m fine with charging premium prices but you had better deliver a premium experience. IMO Disney is no longer delivering a premium experience. YMMV.

Everyone should pay for vacations in cash.

You’ll realize that going elsewhere is fine, but will have its own expenses and trade offs if you decide to go cheap. Disney is my budget vacation because other places I go are way more expensive.

Traveling is purely a luxury.

 

[Skibum1970]

Everyone should pay for vacations in cash.

You’ll realize that going elsewhere is fine, but will have its own expenses and trade offs if you decide to go cheap. Disney is my budget vacation because other places I go are way more expensive.

Traveling is purely a luxury.

Disney is typically my vacation because it's easy to do a one-stop shop, so to speak. It is nice not having to do a ton of driving between destinations. For us, though, it definitely isn't a "budget vacation". Well, we could go much less expensively by staying offsite but that is an entirely different argument.

 

[WDW Monorail]

Everyone should pay for vacations in cash.

You’ll realize that going elsewhere is fine, but will have its own expenses and trade offs if you decide to go cheap. Disney is my budget vacation because other places I go are way more expensive.

Traveling is purely a luxury.

Going to WDW is immensly cheaper than going on the trips that I am taking to Spain and Italy later this summer on my own. I’m spending $5K for 3 days in Spain to meet one of my friends vacationing there, not including any food, shopping or other experiences on which I am expecting to spend another $800-$1000.

The Italy trip for 4 days is so far costing me amost $4K again just for me but I will be meeting with family there.

These costs are all upfront and paid off for airfares and hotel stays. Yes I could do it for less but not much less.

Disney is typically my vacation because it's easy to do a one-stop shop, so to speak. It is nice not having to do a ton of driving between destinations. For us, though, it definitely isn't a "budget vacation". Well, we could go much less expensively by staying offsite but that is an entirely different argument.

It’s such an easy place to which to go. Do a little planning, spend a little money and it’s always enjoyable.

 

[KaliSplash]

Naw, because unfortunately you still have stockholders. Stockholders are hungry beast that year after year must be fed
And want double digit growth ALL the time. Lol, they don't want "slow" periods, they want the parks packed ALL the time. they don't want expensive, time consuming projects. So basically the things you guys want are the exact opposite of what the shareholders want.
They did not vote Iger in to make you feel warm and fuzzy, the did it to make them money and have no qualms about sacrificing the things you value.

This is EXACTLY the situation!

 

[Chef Mickey]

Disney is typically my vacation because it's easy to do a one-stop shop, so to speak. It is nice not having to do a ton of driving between destinations. For us, though, it definitely isn't a "budget vacation". Well, we could go much less expensively by staying offsite but that is an entirely different argument.

I totally agree. I love the 24/7 fun available at WDW and the ability to go hard or take it easy. Either way can be fun.

Other destinations require even more planning, despite people saying WDW is too much planning. At Disney, it’s all there and you just have to decide when to do what. Other places, you’re never quite sure what you’ll get. Will that restaurant be good? Will the activity deliver? And if it does, the activity is over in a couple hours and you have to plan the next one or drive to the next place.

My favorite part of Disney is doing no driving and always being guaranteed a “Disney” experience.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Going to WDW is immensly cheaper than going on the trips that I am taking to Spain and Italy later this summer on my own. I’m spending $5K for 3 days in Spain to meet one of my friends vacationing there, not including any food, shopping or other experiences on which I am expecting to spend another $800-$1000.

The Italy trip for 4 days is so far costing me amost $4K again just for me but I will be meeting with family there.

These costs are all upfront and paid off for airfares and hotel stays. Yes I could do it for less but not much less.



It’s such an easy place to which to go. Do a little planning, spend a little money and it’s always enjoyable.

I’m glad you mentioned that and understand how expensive travel can be, particularly when you go to desirable places. I just spent over $10K in Japan and can do Disney for longer and about half the price.

 

[Skibum1970]

I totally agree. I love the 24/7 fun available at WDW and the ability to go hard or take it easy. Either way can be fun.

Other destinations require even more planning, despite people saying WDW is too much planning. At Disney, it’s all there and you just have to decide when to do what. Other places, you’re never quite sure what you’ll get. Will that restaurant be good? Will the activity deliver? And if it does, the activity is over in a couple hours and you have to plan the next one or drive to the next place.

My favorite part of Disney is doing no driving and always being guaranteed a “Disney” experience.

One more thought. It is probably easier to budget for Disney. Hotel, air fare (or gas if you are driving), and tickets are set in stone. Hotel is basically, "How much do I want to spend?" Beyond that, you can do the Disney Dining Plan and iron out your expenses even more. So, from the perspective of determining how much a Disney will cost, even a newer person can come up with estimates that end up being very close to reality. We've done other vacations where the costs fluctuated due to various factors (available restaurants, change in gas prices, and even when the agenda changed while actually on the trip).

The only trips that end up less expensive are those to national parks or museums (ex. Smithsonian). Even then, some costs will just start adding up that we didn't plan for.

 

[Chef Mickey]

One more thought. It is probably easier to budget for Disney. Hotel, air fare (or gas if you are driving), and tickets are set in stone. Hotel is basically, "How much do I want to spend?" Beyond that, you can do the Disney Dining Plan and iron out your expenses even more. So, from the perspective of determining how much a Disney will cost, even a newer person can come up with estimates that end up being very close to reality. We've done other vacations where the costs fluctuated due to various factors (available restaurants, change in gas prices, and even when the agenda changed while actually on the trip).

The only trips that end up less expensive are those to national parks or museums (ex. Smithsonian). Even then, some costs will just start adding up that we didn't plan for.

Absolutely. The variable cost of the unknown, particularly in foreign countries, can be pretty high. Sometimes, it’s hard to know what you’re getting into.

We were starving in Japan and thought we were going to have a simple tempura lunch. $200 later, it ended up being an epic 13 course tempura feast in a private room at a 100 year old house that used to be a geisha training facility. Great experience, very expensive.

 

[HansGruber]

It is definitely not buried. Go right now to reservations, pick next week, select Caribbean Beach Resort, and you'll see the notice. I'm not sure it can be more visible without a pop up.

Fair enough. I performed a search for the resort we just stayed at, which clearly had refurbishments underway, and I don't see any refurbishment notifications on a reservation for this week.

I am also highly skeptical that these refurbishment notification dates are accurate.

 

[tagguy]

I’m approaching middle-age. I’ve been to Disney more times then I’d like to admit. One of my children has already been to Disney 2 times more than I had gone when I was their age. Disney obviously holds a special place in my heart.

That being said, I can’t help but notice the “pay more, get less” mentality that has been going on for the past decade or so. Having just come back, I was shocked to observe that Splash Mountain (and to a lesser extent, the Jungle Cruise) were closed for EMHs. Even more appalling is that Living with the Land and Figment close two hours BEFORE the park closes!?

While these few observations might be seen as minor, it wasn’t too long ago that the MK closed CONSISTENTLY at 11pm or midnight…now, its 10pm. Or park tickets could be purchased with the non-expiration option. Hell, if anyone has priced out park tickets lately, a 10-day pass is only 13% more than a 4-day pass. Effectively, you receive 250% more product for only 13% more in price. Which means, everyone purchasing a 4-day pass is effectively paying for a 10-day pass. Great margins, indeed!

The addition of resort parking fees, with no apparent benefit to the consumer, doesn’t help either.


My ultimate question is…when does it end? When does Disney get so greedy that people will actually start acting with their wallet rather than their hearts?[/QUOTE

 

[KimAnnFran]

I’m approaching middle-age. I’ve been to Disney more times then I’d like to admit. One of my children has already been to Disney 2 times more than I had gone when I was their age. Disney obviously holds a special place in my heart.

That being said, I can’t help but notice the “pay more, get less” mentality that has been going on for the past decade or so. Having just come back, I was shocked to observe that Splash Mountain (and to a lesser extent, the Jungle Cruise) were closed for EMHs. Even more appalling is that Living with the Land and Figment close two hours BEFORE the park closes!?

While these few observations might be seen as minor, it wasn’t too long ago that the MK closed CONSISTENTLY at 11pm or midnight…now, its 10pm. Or park tickets could be purchased with the non-expiration option. Hell, if anyone has priced out park tickets lately, a 10-day pass is only 13% more than a 4-day pass. Effectively, you receive 250% more product for only 13% more in price. Which means, everyone purchasing a 4-day pass is effectively paying for a 10-day pass. Great margins, indeed!

The addition of resort parking fees, with no apparent benefit to the consumer, doesn’t help either.


My ultimate question is…when does it end? When does Disney get so greedy that people will actually start acting with their wallet rather than their hearts?

In my experience, things in the front side of EPCOT are always closed earlier than the park....it has been that way for years since I started going.

That being said, EMH should include the most popular rides with the longest lines.

 

[Minnie1976]

If two rides only were closed, that does not count as pay more get less. Pay more get less is when you go to disney and every ride is closed.
Plus MK has no night parade. No night parade means less entertainment for the day, meaning earlier shut down time.
Also you're really not missing much by skipping figment.

Unless Figment is one of your grandchildren’s favorite attractions.

 

[BellFamily2000]

I’m approaching middle-age. I’ve been to Disney more times then I’d like to admit. One of my children has already been to Disney 2 times more than I had gone when I was their age. Disney obviously holds a special place in my heart.

That being said, I can’t help but notice the “pay more, get less” mentality that has been going on for the past decade or so. Having just come back, I was shocked to observe that Splash Mountain (and to a lesser extent, the Jungle Cruise) were closed for EMHs. Even more appalling is that Living with the Land and Figment close two hours BEFORE the park closes!?

While these few observations might be seen as minor, it wasn’t too long ago that the MK closed CONSISTENTLY at 11pm or midnight…now, its 10pm. Or park tickets could be purchased with the non-expiration option. Hell, if anyone has priced out park tickets lately, a 10-day pass is only 13% more than a 4-day pass. Effectively, you receive 250% more product for only 13% more in price. Which means, everyone purchasing a 4-day pass is effectively paying for a 10-day pass. Great margins, indeed!

The addition of resort parking fees, with no apparent benefit to the consumer, doesn’t help either.


My ultimate question is…when does it end? When does Disney get so greedy that people will actually start acting with their wallet rather than their hearts?

We also just got back from Disney and I agree with you the overpricing of everything is apparent. You can’t even get a decent burger in MK and the choices of food is terrible at most restaurants so we opt for eating at Epcot.
The major rides should never be down during EMH. The option is not to go or not to go for those that so rudely say to not go! But you should get what you pay for and when going to Disney you pay a lot! Therefore Disney is held to a higher standard with expectations above and beyond other parks.

 

[Lsc2design]

Hans, you have to realize that some of the posters here are likely much younger than you and I (I can guarantee they're more likely younger than I am), and haven't been going to WDW for as long as we have. So they haven't seen all of the cuts, Or they don't remember what's been lost. It's been longer than 10 years, though. If you look back, it started around 2000. Coincidentally (???) about the time Iger took over as COO, and then CEO a couple of years later. Never a lot of things at once. A cut here. A cut there. Who cares?. But years later you look back and realize how they've all added up. It's the proverbial death by a thousand cuts.

Many park visitors today don't know, or have forgotten, that every park once had an afternoon parade. That evening hours at MK used to extend much later at night. That you could buy nonexpiration tickets. That evening EMH lasted 3 hours. And the list goes on. Disney counts on that. They've cruised on their past reputation to keep sailing along.

Some will argue that these cuts don't amount to much when you look at the new lands and attractions that have been or are being built. But never forget that Disney is Big Business with a capital B. Their eye is squarely on the bottom line and maximizing profit (and Igers yearly bonuses). For every person who decides they're done with the parks, there's a new, younger family to take their place. And for every person who gets upset about a new cut, there are more who just don't care. Disney counts on that.

Not a coincidence with Iger. My family calls much of what he has done to the parks “igervating”. Wonder how much the parks are being milked to make up for the ESPN money fiasco?