Pay more, get less. When does it end?

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Sometimes I wish there was a way to watch alternate realities like a tv show. It would be awesome to see the possibilities of what would have been had Disney run their business the way some of our members and those on other boards say they should have. I wonder how WDW would look today had the business been run with little to no concern for bottom line.

The first 25 years of WDW did a pretty good job of giving guests value for their money while making plenty of profit for the company.

My guess, you would have 40 square miles of swamp with a run down theme park crumbling from the elements because it was shuttered when the company went bankrupt.

When the company was at its closest to being sold off, the parks were the most successful division. Regardless of who was in charge, the WDW parks were never at risk of being shut down completely.
 

pax_65

Well-Known Member
There was a “how much did your trip cost thread”.. I read a lot of it and was actually surprised.

The average money spent looked to be between $3,000- $4,000 total money spent. For a party of 4.

When you think about how much that includes, really the price isn’t bad at all.

I'm a little skeptical at those numbers... how many days is that?

We do longer trips (usually over a week) and we are DVC members which helps a lot. Our cost for our last trip was around $6K (including DVC costs) not including airfare which was around $1,000 so $7K for the whole trip.

While $7,000 can get you a pretty nice vacation in a lot of places, I agree with you that the value isn't terrible when you consider all that you're getting at Disney. Still, I agree wholeheartedly with the OP that the value isn't what it used to be.

We used to get a LOT more for what we spent in years past, so much so that we would splurge with more in-park table service dining including character meals, boat rentals and special tours like the behind-the-magic and fireworks boat rentals.

Because of what I perceive as price gouging by Disney, I find myself watching my wallet more closely - eating more meals in my villa or off property, watching my charges, etc.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
There was a “how much did your trip cost thread”.. I read a lot of it and was actually surprised.

The average money spent looked to be between $3,000- $4,000 total money spent. For a party of 4.

When you think about how much that includes, really the price isn’t bad at all.
How long were those trips?

Were the customers domestic?
 

Lets Respect

Well-Known Member
There are price limits as to what people will spend and they do hit them. Things like dessert parties have been cut back in some cases because they couldn't fill all of the nights. There are resort discounts and package discounts. Lots of their park merchandise ends up at the outlets. That kind of thing.

I don't think you'll see an overall change at any point, they will just hit the price wall on certain things and scale back the price or offerings accordingly.

On a personal level, it's up to each person to decide when they have had enough and either stop going or change how they go (go for a shorter time, stay offsite, etc)
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Hans, you have to realize that some of the posters here are likely much younger than you and I (I can guarantee they're more likely younger than I am), and haven't been going to WDW for as long as we have. So they haven't seen all of the cuts, Or they don't remember what's been lost. It's been longer than 10 years, though. If you look back, it started around 2000. Coincidentally (???) about the time Iger took over as COO, and then CEO a couple of years later. Never a lot of things at once. A cut here. A cut there. Who cares?. But years later you look back and realize how they've all added up. It's the proverbial death by a thousand cuts.

Many park visitors today don't know, or have forgotten, that every park once had an afternoon parade. That evening hours at MK used to extend much later at night. That you could buy nonexpiration tickets. That evening EMH lasted 3 hours. And the list goes on. Disney counts on that. They've cruised on their past reputation to keep sailing along.

Some will argue that these cuts don't amount to much when you look at the new lands and attractions that have been or are being built. But never forget that Disney is Big Business with a capital B. Their eye is squarely on the bottom line and maximizing profit (and Igers yearly bonuses). For every person who decides they're done with the parks, there's a new, younger family to take their place. And for every person who gets upset about a new cut, there are more who just don't care. Disney counts on that.
Very well put.
 

John park hopper

Well-Known Member
Posted before post it again. As a consumer you have control over what you spend above the fixed cost of lodging and park tickets. If you still enjoy WDW cut back on park dinning and junk food and souvenirs, bring food you can eat for breakfast and lunch. If you drive go off site and eat it's cheaper, you don't have to decide 6 months in advance what you want to eat and many times the food is better. That's my plan and I'm sticking to it come May 2019 trip
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
I'm going to start a drinking game for every "stop going" response. But until then...
lol,
I do feel bad because pretty much imo that's the most effective solution. I mean the last few months we've had a plethora of complaints from TSL being a disaster, to new rides aren't really E rides, new charges stink, so forth and so on.
I mean I get it, Disney in the olden days was great. I just don't know what else to contribute. the fact is, it is what it is. as trite as that sounds. folks are either going to deal with the world with Iger or you're going to be disappointed.
Now for me, vacations are way to important to go in knowing I'll be disappointed. I mean who plans a vacation knowing they won't like a particular place??
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
I'm not going to get into a full rant on this because I'm tired of it, but I've had similar feelings (even some of the same complaints) after our last few trips. I can tell you that the end is in your hands...not Disney's.

Disney is extremely profitable, so even if you don't like the direction of things, they are going to keep moving right along. I've been going since the mid 80s, was a FL resident for a while, and have seen many changes over the years. Some have actually been good too...i.e. it wasn't all perfect in 80s. Still, after having complaints falling on deaf ears, I've decided that the best solution is to speak with my wallet.

That's not to say I won't ever go back, but it won't be for quite a while, I won't be paying for many of the things I've decided are poor values, and so on. I will say that it's also easier to look past some of the issues if you've been away for a while. We took a lengthy Disney break (6/98-12/10), and those first two trips after that break were pretty awesome...despite all of the posts I saw on here about the issues. I'm just not as likely to notice the problems and declines if I've been away for a while. Maybe it's because enough changes when you take a significant break...i.e. makes it all seem fresh again. Either way, I'm hoping we feel that way after this break.

Ultimately, the only way to make it end - aside from running the place and doing things your way - is to not go.
 

HansGruber

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
You can't compare cars with disney. They are two completely different things.
2 rides closed is nothing. There's still a bunch of other rides open. Why couldn't you have just accepted that and enjoyed you trip? That's what every other sane person does.
Also if you hated your trip that much, then just don't complain and not visit again. Disney is not going to listen to you, and people here are not going to take you seriously.

I'm guessing it's the rose-colored glasses? Maybe take them off for just a second and have an adult conversation?

Never once did I indicate that I 'hated' my trip. I'm simply pointing out the overall trend of paying more and receiving less.
Maybe if more consumers took off the rose-colored glasses and demanded a little bit more, we'd all collectively get it.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
I'm guessing it's the rose-colored glasses? Maybe take them off for just a second and have an adult conversation?

Never once did I indicate that I 'hated' my trip. I'm simply pointing out the overall trend of paying more and receiving less.
Maybe if more consumers took off the rose-colored glasses and demanded a little bit more, we'd all collectively get it.
Actually it's the opposte, I think now the general customer gets it. I think it's the "old timer" who compare it to back in the day who are dissatisfied.
Ok so I'm making a few assumptions but let's go with a common complaint here about rides not being "E" ticket. Unless you are of a certain age, how many folks care if a "ride" is E ticket. Now I've been accused of "accepting" mediocrity but I don't go on rides thinking like that, i say "was" it fun. Now again I didn't go until the 2000s so my experience is limited.
So I would say its "rose" colored to the point where we (older visitors) are viewing every thing on a long ago time.
 
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Lets Respect

Well-Known Member
You can’t demand anything while you keep buying the product. It makes no sense. Would you show a bad restaurant that they should change by eating there? Show a clothers designer you hate their stuff while still buying their clothes every year?

You can try to maximize your value by spending less (and finding ways to do more while you are there) but that’s about it.
 

JIMINYCR

Well-Known Member
I can go along with you regarding the change of non expiring tickets somewhat ( although I can understand Disneys reasoning to cut them out too) and the parking fee add on which is riduculous. But I cant on there being less value for your money. Even with a couple of rides closed and an hour off of a parks hours I still find more than enough enough to experience in the time I have to feel that I'm getting my moneys worth. Ticket prices have increased but every entertainment venues prices have over the years. Just because its Disney and they are pulling in profits doesnt mean they have to keep their pricing at 1980s level. They have added on more attractions, lands and entertainment and should be compensated for those improvements. If you were to add the cost up individually for everything you get in a day for entertainment it would show you that you are getting your value.
 

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
They did not vote Iger in to make you feel warm and fuzzy, the did it to make them money and have no qualms about sacrificing the things you value.
What the stockholders don't know or seem to care about is that the "value" we find in WDW is its stock-in-trade. Same with the movies, same with the TV programming, same with the books, and records, and Broadway productions, and cruise line... when the quality is no longer there, they'll just be ex-TV weathermen and dime-a-dozen MBAs trading on the Disney name.
 

HansGruber

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
There was a “how much did your trip cost thread”.. I read a lot of it and was actually surprised.

The average money spent looked to be between $3,000- $4,000 total money spent. For a party of 4.

When you think about how much that includes, really the price isn’t bad at all.

A thread is going to be a horrendous metric for comparison purposes.
Everyone has their own idea of costs. Everyone has their own benchmark for what a "vacation" entails.
Some view park food as a necessity. Others will view souvenirs as a necessity.
Plane ticket costs will vary dramatically.

I don't know how you can quantify any of it.
 

Glasgow

Well-Known Member
OP. Im in the same boat. We went every year between 2007-2015 but havent been back since due to the value ratio thing. WDW has lost our vacation dollars to UNI and other places for now, at least until they have gotten the parks back up to higher capacity (via ride additions .. which have been 10 years past due). Anyway, show your disapproval with your wallet .. thats what we did, begrudgingly.
 

DryerLintFan

Premium Member
Surely, you do realize you are paying for a 10-day pass when purchasing a 4-day pass, right?
It's an incredible price-gouge on the average vacationing family.


It's not a whole picture computation though. The longer a family stays, the more money Disney makes from them. This means they want to highly incentivize staying longer, which they've done with ticket prices.

4 day park tickets: $760
4 nights at hotel: cheapest moderate $688
Food: roughly $400
Souvenirs: roughly $400
Total per day: $562
Total Disney gets: $2248


8 day park tickets: $850
8 nights at hotel: $1376
Food: roughly $800
Souvenirs: roughly $800
Total per day: $478
Total Disney gets: $3826


You get a better deal on the trip, but ultimately, you pay Disney over $1500 more than you originally would have.
 

HansGruber

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It's not a whole picture computation though. The longer a family stays, the more money Disney makes from them. This means they want to highly incentivize staying longer, which they've done with ticket prices.

I don't disagree, but their main priority is to gouge and exploit the price of an average family stay. Any captured revenue after that average is just gravy.
Far more families stay for 3-5 days vs. those that stay 10 days. It makes sense to exploit the 3-5 days.
Hell, adding the water park option for my family of 4 only cost us an extra $100.
10 days of water parks for "only" $100! They know you're already getting gouged.
 

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