Pay more, get less. When does it end?

[jlsHouston]

We also just returned from 11 nights on property. July 3-14. Given the fact I decided to go on July 1 and booked the room only that day I didn't expect much. Picked up the discount tickets on July 3rd when we arrived from Tickets2 you or whatever they are called. Loading them into MDE was probably the only thing that worked right with MDE app the entire trip which was ultimately extremely frustrating and contributed to disappointment when finally getting FP for the day. Overall the 2 properties we stayed on were in top shape, even the eyesore monstrosity going up at CSR, (which I am going to have to stay in at least once I have to admit) and the 24 hour sound of generators operating taking the serenity right out of CSR didn't stop me from being impressed with the updated rooms in Cabana section, the mousekeeping and the bus service. Moved to BWI on the 11th for last 3 nights and it was low key and relaxing and not real crowed there either so we enjoyed evening strolls and pool. Besides MDE being a total flop for me because I have too many F&F I am thinking and the app just doesn't map correctly when you overload it with too many managers, and IT and guest services and concierge incompetent when it comes to correcting an IT issue, the single greatest disappointment I experienced was MK closing at 10pm almost every night and even on the nights when they didn't run the premium event. For some reason I expect MK to stay open until midnight in summers and 10pm really cramped our ability to get the most out of the park experience the way we like to do the parks in the summer months. Anyways to make a long story short, I still love WDW. In hindsight I would have used the money to buy annual water park tickets for the 4 of us and stayed at either Four Seasons or POLY and skipped the 4 parks altogether for a summer visit. And if I return next summer that will be what I do unless I end up getting an annual pass before then..
I have been going to WDW since 2011 and yes it just keeps getting more expensive for less of an experience. However comparatively speaking it's still a great vacation spot.

 

[D M C]

Resort fees will be next

That will be my breaking point. Will move to offsite places for future trips.

 

[clarabellej]

I’m approaching middle-age. I’ve been to Disney more times then I’d like to admit. One of my children has already been to Disney 2 times more than I had gone when I was their age. Disney obviously holds a special place in my heart.

That being said, I can’t help but notice the “pay more, get less” mentality that has been going on for the past decade or so. Having just come back, I was shocked to observe that Splash Mountain (and to a lesser extent, the Jungle Cruise) were closed for EMHs. Even more appalling is that Living with the Land and Figment close two hours BEFORE the park closes!?

While these few observations might be seen as minor, it wasn’t too long ago that the MK closed CONSISTENTLY at 11pm or midnight…now, its 10pm. Or park tickets could be purchased with the non-expiration option. Hell, if anyone has priced out park tickets lately, a 10-day pass is only 13% more than a 4-day pass. Effectively, you receive 250% more product for only 13% more in price. Which means, everyone purchasing a 4-day pass is effectively paying for a 10-day pass. Great margins, indeed!

The addition of resort parking fees, with no apparent benefit to the consumer, doesn’t help either.


My ultimate question is…when does it end? When does Disney get so greedy that people will actually start acting with their wallet rather than their hearts?

I have noticed this trend too!! And you are so right. It is nothing less than pure greed!! I assume this is to help cover expenses on the many renovations and creations of new attractions. You would think Disney makes enough money on a daily basis to cover their costs. We are guilty of paying for a dessert party/Plaza Garden Viewing for HEA. As nice as it was to have a designated viewing area waiting for us in the Spring Break crowds, I could not help but notice the relatively skimpy dessert offerings by comparison. Not that I needed to eat another bite. It was just noticeable when paying the price we paid. And noticeable since a few years back you could use a fastpass and be in same reserved area for “free.” Also noticeable that Tomorrowland terrace area looks like when you are selling your house and the realtor advises you not to paint or put in fresh carpet, because it will sell as is. Cramped little bathroom with a line formed, etc. Just not up to par. So yes, all these “add on” offerings are noticeable to those of us who have gone repeatedly over the years. Sorry for my repeated use of the word “noticeable.” When we ate at Sunshine Seasons last March, it was not as good as it used to be. ROL is a joke. Not sure what could have been done differently there. Unfortunately there are those who will pay more, so these extra charges will continue. Club level. Paying to get Fastpasses sooner, etc. The worst are these magic hours where they close the parks and allow only those ticket holders in. Not sure what they call it. Fortunately they have not done that during our Spring Break vacation. I can’t imagine being there and finding out that MK has closed earlier for this and having to leave early. I have noticed earlier park closing rather than later EMH evening hours. I swear we used to be there till early a.m. in years past. Major changes. Not sure I am a fan of them all. Disney should be catering to their repeat visitors and yet I’ve gone for the past 12 years in a row and no one has taken notice. Do I get an award for that. I guess not. I think I have been about 16 times total. My days may be numbered with all these “extra charges.” Not to mention the regular charges.

 

[TechRavingMad]

Hans, you have to realize that some of the posters here are likely much younger than you and I (I can guarantee they're more likely younger than I am), and haven't been going to WDW for as long as we have. So they haven't seen all of the cuts, Or they don't remember what's been lost. It's been longer than 10 years, though. If you look back, it started around 2000. Coincidentally (???) about the time Iger took over as COO, and then CEO a couple of years later. Never a lot of things at once. A cut here. A cut there. Who cares?. But years later you look back and realize how they've all added up. It's the proverbial death by a thousand cuts.

Many park visitors today don't know, or have forgotten, that every park once had an afternoon parade. That evening hours at MK used to extend much later at night. That you could buy nonexpiration tickets. That evening EMH lasted 3 hours. And the list goes on. Disney counts on that. They've cruised on their past reputation to keep sailing along.

Some will argue that these cuts don't amount to much when you look at the new lands and attractions that have been or are being built. But never forget that Disney is Big Business with a capital B. Their eye is squarely on the bottom line and maximizing profit (and Igers yearly bonuses). For every person who decides they're done with the parks, there's a new, younger family to take their place. And for every person who gets upset about a new cut, there are more who just don't care. Disney counts on that.

So you think it would be better to go back to running it like it was 20-30 years ago when Disney was in danger of being bought out or the parks were struggling financially? Yeah things are different now, but in comparison to other vacations Disney isn't out of range for what you get. You can't compare today to the early 2000's or worse the 80's, we're not in the same world now then we were then.

Yeah, it's expensive, but when comparing what I get for what I pay, Disney is still high on the list for desirable vacations.

 

[DryerLintFan]

You're on a Disney forum, which means you have some affinity for the place, as most of us clearly do.
To get me to believe you will simply "stop going" without taking ANY preceding action, just doesn't make sense.
As some others have posted, some posters are:

• Spending less on vacation
• Staying offsite
• Delaying their vacation
• Skipping their vacation
• Complaining to Disney

To someone who has some level of affinity for Disney, all of this makes sense long before one simply stops vacationing there.

This is the sloppiest logic on this whole thread, lol. Wat??

I have been on this board since nearly a calendar year before my first ever trip. ZERO affinity. It's a planning tool. I stayed because of my affinity to some of the people on the board. Saying people who are on the boards cannot just up and quit going to Disney because they have to like-like/love Disney to be on the boards is just silly.

 

[emvisco]

The simple answer is: when people stop paying. Their allegiance is to their shareholders.

 

[pittsburghdude]

I honestly think EVERYWHERE has gotten this way. Sometimes people try to blame it on all of us getting older, but I don't think that's the case. I like a good roller coaster as much as I did twenty years ago, for example, but just feel that in a profit-driven economy, so many companies are shortchanging here.

Two weeks ago, I was at Kennywood, our local amusement park in Pittsburgh. I paid $32 for a discounted ticket. They're normally closer to $50, but can be purchased through my township's community center for less. The newest roller coaster, the Sky Rocket, was down that day. The indoor coaster, the Exterminator, was shut down for some time as well. The water for the two water rides looked dirtier than usual. Like at WDW, the food was on the expensive side. Water fountains are your friend, by the way.

I still enjoyed all of the functional rides at Kennywood that day, but just felt as though the ticket should have been $22, not $32. I'll probably go again this summer, maybe on a Thursday when it's not as crowded, but felt like there wasn't as much going on there as there had been.

This is happening outside the amusement industry, too. Have you noticed it at restaurants? How about at clothing stores, where it seems some of the manufacturers are using cheaper materials yet charging the same price?

The only thing that gave me more bang for my buck lately was the new TV I bought in March. For just $160, I got a hi-def 28" LG TV that blows my old 24" Sony set from 14 years ago out of the water...and cost about half as much.

 

[HansGruber]

This is the sloppiest logic on this whole thread, lol. Wat??

I have been on this board since nearly a calendar year before my first ever trip. ZERO affinity. It's a planning tool. I stayed because of my affinity to some of the people on the board. Saying people who are on the boards cannot just up and quit going to Disney because they have to like-like/love Disney to be on the boards is just silly.

You only visit this board for planning but are reading and commenting on a thread that has nothing to do with planning.
At least keep your story straight, please.

 

[DryerLintFan]

You only visit this board for planning but are reading and commenting on a thread that has nothing to do with planning.
At least keep your story straight, please.

I'm sure this is news to you.... but you don't actually own the internet....

 

[MMouse1972]

I completely agree with the OP. EMH used to be for one park, either morning or night, for every day of the week. Usually all E Ticket and most other rides were open. MK used to stay open to at least 1 AM on Friday, Saturday or Sunday, sometimes all three. MK used to have MSEP for a night parade 2 times a night. I can remember, and have video of leaving Soarin' at 2AM (granted this was extremely late, but it was an EMH night where EPCOT was open until Midnight and the line for Soarin' was crazy). I can also remember when everything, except alcohol, was included in the various meal plans. This included the tip and for "sit down" dining, full appetizers, entree, and desert were included for each guest. I know many will disagree, but I preferred the old Fastpass system. Now I have to plan the entire trip 120 days in advance if I want to be guaranteed to ride certain rides. Even the "Magical Express" ride has become one long, 40 minute "infomercial" to a captive audience instead of a preview of the fun you're about to have on your vacation. To us, the breaking point came last year at "The Land". My family loves "The Land" as a nice chance to sit down, cool off, relax from the heat and hustle bustle of EPCOT. We normally ride it 5 or 6 times on a week-long trip and it was never more than a 10 minute wait, normally walk on. Last year, we were not able to ride it once. Not because it was broken, but because the lines were out into the food court area and all Fastpasses were taken. Yes, I know that with the addition of the new rides, etc, this may get better, but for us, it summed up the entire "vibe" that we now get from WDW: pay much more, get much less. The magic is gone: this is a business, we're here to make money, shove as many willing souls through the gates as we can, and try to see how much the public will bear. I know this concept is not new to Disney, but it's just so "in your face" and obvious now, that the veil of "magic" is completely gone.

 

[HansGruber]

I'm sure this is news to you.... but you don't actually own the internet....

Correct. What does that have to do with my point?

 

[Bpmorley]

I’m approaching middle-age. I’ve been to Disney more times then I’d like to admit. One of my children has already been to Disney 2 times more than I had gone when I was their age. Disney obviously holds a special place in my heart.

That being said, I can’t help but notice the “pay more, get less” mentality that has been going on for the past decade or so. Having just come back, I was shocked to observe that Splash Mountain (and to a lesser extent, the Jungle Cruise) were closed for EMHs. Even more appalling is that Living with the Land and Figment close two hours BEFORE the park closes!?

While these few observations might be seen as minor, it wasn’t too long ago that the MK closed CONSISTENTLY at 11pm or midnight…now, its 10pm. Or park tickets could be purchased with the non-expiration option. Hell, if anyone has priced out park tickets lately, a 10-day pass is only 13% more than a 4-day pass. Effectively, you receive 250% more product for only 13% more in price. Which means, everyone purchasing a 4-day pass is effectively paying for a 10-day pass. Great margins, indeed!

The addition of resort parking fees, with no apparent benefit to the consumer, doesn’t help either.


My ultimate question is…when does it end? When does Disney get so greedy that people will actually start acting with their wallet rather than their hearts?

It will end when crowds diminish. Me and DW have already curbed our visits and the amount of money we spend on property. Even 10 years ago we would eat 90% of our meals on property, go to at least 1 park a day. Now we can go for a week and maybe go to a park twice, never eat a meal on property, never buy a drink, etc... Greed has pushed us away. I give it about 10 more years where all I do is rent out my points and never step foot in DW again. Unless something changes with their direction. The only way this stops is if you hit them in their wallet and I don't see that happening, at least not anytime soon.

 

[addcogulf]

If two rides only were closed, that does not count as pay more get less. Pay more get less is when you go to disney and every ride is closed.
Plus MK has no night parade. No night parade means less entertainment for the day, meaning earlier shut down time.
Also you're really not missing much by skipping figment.

I happen to love

I’m approaching middle-age. I’ve been to Disney more times then I’d like to admit. One of my children has already been to Disney 2 times more than I had gone when I was their age. Disney obviously holds a special place in my heart.

That being said, I can’t help but notice the “pay more, get less” mentality that has been going on for the past decade or so. Having just come back, I was shocked to observe that Splash Mountain (and to a lesser extent, the Jungle Cruise) were closed for EMHs. Even more appalling is that Living with the Land and Figment close two hours BEFORE the park closes!?

While these few observations might be seen as minor, it wasn’t too long ago that the MK closed CONSISTENTLY at 11pm or midnight…now, its 10pm. Or park tickets could be purchased with the non-expiration option. Hell, if anyone has priced out park tickets lately, a 10-day pass is only 13% more than a 4-day pass. Effectively, you receive 250% more product for only 13% more in price. Which means, everyone purchasing a 4-day pass is effectively paying for a 10-day pass. Great margins, indeed!

The addition of resort parking fees, with no apparent benefit to the consumer, doesn’t help either.


My ultimate question is…when does it end? When does Disney get so greedy that people will actually start acting with their wallet rather than their hearts?

 

[addcogulf]

I happen to Love Figment. And I agree that's its more of a money, money money deal to Disney executives now. You pay more for less. Although I love and still go to WDW every year there is defineintly a decline in entertainment

 

[TheDisneyMom]

If two rides only were closed, that does not count as pay more get less. Pay more get less is when you go to disney and every ride is closed.
Plus MK has no night parade. No night parade means less entertainment for the day, meaning earlier shut down time.
Also you're really not missing much by skipping figment.

I totally agree with “pay more, get less.” There are fewer EMH, they are only 2 hours, not 3, NO rides should be closed during EMH (on our trip in May, very few were actually open, which made those few, incredibly crowded,) transportation stinks, all but a few small food places close during EMH, restaurant prices are soaring while we’re being served the same chicken , braised short ribs and flatbreads everywhere, new rides lack imagination, and the list goes on. Sure, I can stop going, and that day may be soon. But Disney, and all the crazy security, and lack of imagination and constant price hiking, does leave a bitter taste. And you would be missing a lot with Figment. Had they left the original ride alone!

 

[bh_trade]

It will end when crowds diminish. Me and DW have already curbed our visits and the amount of money we spend on property. Even 10 years ago we would eat 90% of our meals on property, go to at least 1 park a day. Now we can go for a week and maybe go to a park twice, never eat a meal on property, never buy a drink, etc... Greed has pushed us away. I give it about 10 more years where all I do is rent out my points and never step foot in DW again. Unless something changes with their direction. The only way this stops is if you hit them in their wallet and I don't see that happening, at least not anytime soon.

Your reply resonated with me. My family has vacationed in Orlando every other year for some time now. Last few times we have only spent 2 days of our week going to parks and only quick service food, just too pricey and too much time standing in line. The general trend of pay more, get less is 100% true, it really shouldn't be up for debate, it just IS.

That said, there are only 2 logical choices if one is disgruntled with this trend: 1) suck it up and deal with it because you can't bear to be away from Disney or 2) go less often. Your family and mine have chose option 2 but it seems many choose option 1 then incessantly complain.

 

[spock8113]

This all very reminiscent and a familiar marketing ploy.
Remember the last time you got home from the supermarket and the same bag of BBQ chips you paid $2.69
that was 12 ounces is now 7 ounces? While it's the same product, there's actually now a 40% price increase with 60% more air.

Saavy?

 

[PTL76]

I’m approaching middle-age. I’ve been to Disney more times then I’d like to admit. One of my children has already been to Disney 2 times more than I had gone when I was their age. Disney obviously holds a special place in my heart.

That being said, I can’t help but notice the “pay more, get less” mentality that has been going on for the past decade or so. Having just come back, I was shocked to observe that Splash Mountain (and to a lesser extent, the Jungle Cruise) were closed for EMHs. Even more appalling is that Living with the Land and Figment close two hours BEFORE the park closes!?

While these few observations might be seen as minor, it wasn’t too long ago that the MK closed CONSISTENTLY at 11pm or midnight…now, its 10pm. Or park tickets could be purchased with the non-expiration option. Hell, if anyone has priced out park tickets lately, a 10-day pass is only 13% more than a 4-day pass. Effectively, you receive 250% more product for only 13% more in price. Which means, everyone purchasing a 4-day pass is effectively paying for a 10-day pass. Great margins, indeed!

The addition of resort parking fees, with no apparent benefit to the consumer, doesn’t help either.


My ultimate question is…when does it end? When does Disney get so greedy that people will actually start acting with their wallet rather than their hearts?

Sad to say you are so right. As a Disney park lover like yourself from 1972 and now a Florida resident and pass holder Disney is now like most American corporations, how do we push the stock up to take care of our stockholders don’t care about our workers or what the public thinks.
With attendance up every year the only thing that will get Disney’s attention is if attendance at the parks or staying at resorts drops dramatically off. Don’t think that is happening

 

[Minnie1976]

It is very obvious how greedy Disney has gotten.
Unfortunately, it just seems to draw you back. We have been Disney people since 1976 and have grown old with Disney as it has grown up. This year for our Mardi Gras break we took our oldest granddaughter to Universal because of Harry Potter. Since we all love Disney we made arrangements to eat 3 meals at Disney hotels and ride the monorail. She kept saying, “ I can’t believe we aren’t going to MK.” The tickets for 3 adults plus food in the park all became too expensive. Then my husband said, “I can’t believe Disney is so expensive for 1 day.”

Another example of greed and y’all may laugh is the tye dyed cheese cake at POP. The 1st time we purchased nice slice, another trip in a round container, this past October a small round container with a part of the container pertruding into the cup so to received even less.

I will say this about the parks the food has improved since we started going in 1976. It really wasn’t good in the beginning. We use to leave to go eat sometimes. We just wished for a BK or McDonald’s to be at the MK because that was the only park at that time.

 

[larryz]

Sad to say you are so right. As a Disney park lover like yourself from 1972 and now a Florida resident and pass holder Disney is now like most American corporations, how do we push the stock up to take care of our stockholders don’t care about our workers or what the public thinks.
With attendance up every year the only thing that will get Disney’s attention is if attendance at the parks or staying at resorts drops dramatically off. Don’t think that is happening

You think they're pushing up the stock price for the shareholders.

I think they're doing it to pad their executive bonuses.