News Park attendance showing significant softness heading into the Fall 2018

[Lensman]

That's my point. The percentage isn't calculated based on available rooms, it's based on total rooms, at least in this context. Fewer available rooms reduces the numerator, not the denominator.

I wanted to back up what Captain is saying with a quote from Iger during the Q3 FY17 earnings call.

At our domestic hotels, per room spending was up 8% while occupancy was down 2 percentage points to 88%. If you adjust for rooms not available due to refurbishments, occupancy would be comparable to prior year.

I also found the following on some website that provided some calculators for small hotel operators. It says that different hotels may use different definitions of available rooms, with some taking out of order rooms out of the denominator and some not.

Also at some hotel Available Rooms are taken after reducing the OOO (Out of Order Rooms) ie Sellable Rooms = Available Rooms - Out Of Order Rooms. Other hotels always take all rooms in their hotel as Available Rooms because this gives a consistent base on which the occupancy is measured.

 

[nyrebel3]

A room under refurb is considered to be a room that cannot be occupied and thus a loss of revenue and occupancy since the amout of rooms have not changed, just the availability.

Or they are doing creative accounting.

I'll admit that I have never worked the front desk of a hotel. But I have worked at the corporate level at a major chain. The way it was explained to me was the rooms out of order were subtracted from available inventory.

So if all of the rooms are available: 85 occupied rooms / 100 available rooms = 85% occupancy

But if 5 rooms are out of order: 85 occupied rooms / (100 total rooms - 5 out of order) = 89.5% occupancy

I believe this is the industry norm as we used this methodology to report internally and externally. But this was decades ago and I can't remember what I had for breakfast today.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Ah, the perks of being a travel agent, probably as good or better than being an airline employee. (I'm a former airline employee, my flight benefits run out at the end of this year and it is depressing!!!!)

Not so much for airlines I can assure you. We don't get any discount on any of the major carriers that I have ever looked into. So I am just looking around online the same as anyone else. From what I understand, that was not always the case. Airlines used to give TA's discounts but that was not in place when I started which is over 10 years ago at this point. Marie

 

[ryguy]

I am sure the struggling South American economies haven't helped either.

 

[wannabeBelle]

And as a related aside, according to another news site, pricing has been raised for Ear headbands, bubble wands and misting fans by two or three dollars each, depending on the item. Take this as you will. Marie

 

[TwilightZone]

And as a related aside, according to another news site, pricing has been raised for Ear headbands, bubble wands and misting fans by two or three dollars each, depending on the item. Take this as you will. Marie

Thank god, maybe this means less bubbles in eyes

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

Looking at things from another viewpoint: I thought that the parks would be More crowded, as people would take advantage of the pre-starwars lull before the actual opening in 2019. My husband and I are taking advantage of the time before the surge for Star wars land starts. We don't really care to be in that mess. We do like star wars (the old one with Darth Vader, etc, but are not really hyped up about the upcoming land. We will visit it when it slows down, if ever.
Just thought more guests would try to visit pre-star wars land? when it's not so busy.

 

[asianway]

A room under refurb is considered to be a room that cannot be occupied and thus a loss of revenue and occupancy since the amout of rooms have not changed, just the availability.

Or they are doing creative accounting.

Creative wordsmithing. It doesnt say "because of" just "reflecting" or inclusive of.

 

[disneyflush]

Looking at things from another viewpoint: I thought that the parks would be More crowded, as people would take advantage of the pre-starwars lull before the actual opening in 2019. My husband and I are taking advantage of the time before the surge for Star wars land starts. We don't really care to be in that mess. We do like star wars (the old one with Darth Vader, etc, but are not really hyped up about the upcoming land. We will visit it when it slows down, if ever.
Just thought more guests would try to visit pre-star wars land? when it's not so busy.

Family and I have May of 2019 booked for precisely this reason as well. It will still be busy but we were trying to avoid any Star Wars congestion.

 

[asianway]

I'll admit that I have never worked the front desk of a hotel. But I have worked at the corporate level at a major chain. The way it was explained to me was the rooms out of order were subtracted from available inventory.

So if all of the rooms are available: 85 occupied rooms / 100 available rooms = 85% occupancy

But if 5 rooms are out of order: 85 occupied rooms / (100 total rooms - 5 out of order) = 89.5% occupancy

I believe this is the industry norm as we used this methodology to report internally and externally. But this was decades ago and I can't remember what I had for breakfast today.

Rooms that are allowed to be removed are those closed from sale for 30 days or more due to demand(this is the number @WDW1974 refers to when he says they are trying to constantly maintain the high occupancy rate by closing wings or floors up), those closed 6 months or more for MAJOR refurbishment(think Copper Creek), or those being used by the hotel(like when CBR set up a market in one of the rooms).

An out of order, as in a backed up toilet for a day or two is not allowed to be removed from the available room total.

These rules have become more flexible over the past 20 years...

DVC owner usage and those in process of declaring into the Condo also constantly changes those buckets and really needs to be analyzed separately.

Short answer is you wouldnt be able to make heads or tails unless you looked at the internal books.

 

[Sonconato]

Did anyone else notice that MK is not open past 8:00 PM all January? I know that's slow season, but Epcot is the only park open past then. It seems a little odd to me, personally.

 

[Andrew C]

Did anyone else notice that MK is not open past 8:00 PM all January? I know that's slow season, but Epcot is the only park open past then. It seems a little odd to me, personally.

It will probably change as that date gets closer.

 

[Sonconato]

It will probably change as that date gets closer.

Thank You. I wasn't sure.

 

[Princess Leia]

Thank god, maybe this means less bubbles in eyes

Or at the bottom of Peter Pan’s Flight (had an interesting stopped attraction experience with because of that last fall)

 

[Andrew C]

Thank You. I wasn't sure.

Just FYI. I have no specific information regarding this. I am just going off what I (and others here) have seen them do in the past.

 

[disneyworlddad]

Sadly, yes. When we visited last spring, the guac was gone (along with the queso, which had been removed previously). They were selling little 2-Tblsp. condiment cups of it as a "side" for $2 apiece (also available for a snack credit, LOL!). Such a small thing -- but those small things add up after a bit.

This annoys me and my wife to no end! We will still will eat there from time to time because we still think it is one of the better QS on property. However we have skipped lunch all together at the MK because of this as well.

 

[SpoiledBlueMilk]

And as a related aside, according to another news site, pricing has been raised for Ear headbands, bubble wands and misting fans by two or three dollars each, depending on the item. Take this as you will. Marie

You increase wages and prices will rise accordingly. I imagine price hikes on some small items are seen as fairly benign ways to even it all out.

 

[SpoiledBlueMilk]

Adapt or die. TDO waited way too long to build any new significant park offerings coming out of the recession. They should have anticipated this strong economy 10 years out and had been ready for it.

People are really underestimating how fast Orlando is growing. Once terminal C opens at the airport and the i4 project is done Orlando is going to explode with growth as it already is.

No one can seriously prognosticate today how strong the economy will be in 2028.

 

[wannabeBelle]

This annoys me and my wife to no end! We will still will eat there from time to time because we still think it is one of the better QS on property. However we have skipped lunch all together at the MK because of this as well.

You increase wages and prices will rise accordingly. I imagine price hikes on some small items are seen as fairly benign ways to even it all out.

I am seeing it slightly differently. For a small increase that may seem not so big of a deal, that little removal of the guac cost the company 2 QS meals that were going to by purchased DisneyworldDad. Was it totally worth the removal of that one item? In that case a $2.00 side of guac cost the company the price of two quick service meals so $15.00 - $20.00 depending on what is selected. Same idea with the items for purchase going up. I wonder how many more people will purchase items from other outlets as opposed to purchasing a similar item while in the parks, just due to how expensive it is in comparison to similar items available elsewhere? Marie

 

[asianway]

I am seeing it slightly differently. For a small increase that may seem not so big of a deal, that little removal of the guac cost the company 2 QS meals that were going to by purchased DisneyworldDad. Was it totally worth the removal of that one item? In that case a $2.00 side of guac cost the company the price of two quick service meals so $15.00 - $20.00 depending on what is selected. Same idea with the items for purchase going up. I wonder how many more people will purchase items from other outlets as opposed to purchasing a similar item while in the parks, just due to how expensive it is in comparison to similar items available elsewhere? Marie

You have to eat, they got you by the ****s