News Park attendance showing significant softness heading into the Fall 2018

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thomas998

Well-Known Member
larryz said:
Well, the argument has been made that in implementing FP+ across the board, crowds are being conditioned for monetization of "premium FP+" offerings.

Increased stand-by times would have that effect, as would longer waits in the FP+ lines...
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Of course the problem is going to happen when they continue churning out more onsite resorts while failing to create new premium rides. What value do guests see in staying onsite if they can't get a fastpass to a good ride and get stuck with something lame like people mover.
 
larryz

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
MisterPenguin said:
When one compares the way the MK was before FP, one not only has to account for how FP distributes crowds, but also account for an extra 3 million more people in the park per year. The extra 3 million people could possibly have an effect on wait times.
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Yeah. They're the people in the stand-by lines because they didn't know about FP+.
 
LSLS

LSLS

Well-Known Member
MisterPenguin said:
When one compares the way the MK was before FP, one not only has to account for how FP distributes crowds, but also account for an extra 3 million more people in the park per year. The extra 3 million people could possibly have an effect on wait times.
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Absolutely, but you would also need to factor in number of rides for comparison as well. Also, 3,000,000 over 365 days is 8,219 people per day. You spread that over say 15 attractions for arguments sake, that is about 550 people per ride. If you are talking rides having 2000 people per hour, you are talking an added 15 minutes of wait time on average per ride. Now I know they don't all come at the same time, rides have different throughput, etc., but it does put it a bit in perspective. One thing I do know, I'd love to play with real numbers comparing wait times, fast pass number distributions, actual vs. posted waits, and overall attendance.
 
MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
LSLS said:
Now I know they don't all come at the same time, rides have different throughput, etc., but it does put it a bit in perspective.
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Yeah, in fact, spreading them out evenly is what FP is supposed to do!

But, people being people, the extra 3 million will not be evenly spread and the majority will show up at the already-peak days and times of day exacerbating the peakiness of the situation.
 
D

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Marc Davis Fan said:
I have to admit, I am confused by the possibility of standby queue times being the same before and after the 1999 introduction of FP (adjusting for attendance, etc).

Here is what confuses me:

Say I visited The Magic Kingdom in the summer of 1999, before Fastpass. I rode Splash Mountain, Space Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Haunted Mansion, Peter Pan's Flight, and It's A Small World.

Then let's say I visited again TWICE in the summer of 2000, when Fastpass existed, and I went on days that had similar crowd-levels and demographics as my visit the previous summer.

On the first of those days, I went on all of the same rides as 1999, and I did not use Fastpass. If Fastpass does not affect queue times, I should have spent the exact same amount of time in line.

On the second of those days, I went on all of the same rides again, but I used Fastpass for the three mountains. If Fastpass does not affect queue times, I should now be spending less time in line than on either of the prior two visits.

Now, multiply this by every visitor. It would mean that with Fastpass, everyone waits less on average, even though the ride capacities are exactly the same as before.

Now that I think of it, this could make sense. It just means that part of the "wait" has been converted to "virtual," and thus everyone really can spend less time in queues and more time in the park with the existence Fastpass. Is that correct?

And if that's true, the other consideration would be that Fastpass makes the parks' walkways more crowded, which is obviously a particular problem for Disneyland.

I wish there were "No Fastpass Days", just for the experience.
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First, I also wish there were "No FP Days" as well.

As far as your example, if you just look at the standby lines, they will unquestionably be longer. However, since on your second example day in 2000 you used FP for the 3 mountains, that will lower your average wait time compared to your first example day. That average wait time could possibly be the same or less than 1999. Before FP+, Splash was a very long wait (IIRC 90 minutes+ in the summer) but with a FP for Splash you'd be on in a couple of minutes at most.

Let's take a 2 ride example from right now. At the park formerly known as Disney-MGM Studios, the standby for RNRC is 50 minutes and ToT is 85 minutes (I'm assuming due to a breakdown). If you have a FP for ToT in an hour, you can get on standby for RNRC, wait 50 minutes, ride and then wait less than 5 minutes when you use your ToT FP. So basically an average of 27 minutes on each ride.

Before FP was implemented, unless the park was completely empty, the wait was at least 30 minutes for each one. So, essentially, the total wait time was the same. Except now you have the added "fun" of being able to stress about your FP+ reservations 30 or 60 days before your relaxing vacation.
 
BoarderPhreak

BoarderPhreak

Well-Known Member
Kman101 said:
Heh.

I'm not one to say "remember the good ole days" but there was a period of time when Disney actually had slow periods and they didn't act like the sky was falling and they'd be putting up the "CLOSED" sign tomorrow.

I understand them wanting the parks constantly busy but they've truly lost sight of giving the guests a comfortable experience ...
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I'm not either, but... Those WERE good times (for us, in any event). I remember walking around MGM and it was a ghost town. Epcot, easy breezy walk on easy. *sigh*
 
Skibum1970

Skibum1970

Well-Known Member
HauntedPirate said:
Wait... so if there were no FastPass lines, and rides were allowed to load like they were designed to, wait times would be shorter??? What kind of crazy talk is this?!? And how can I be expected to know what rides I want to ride without planning them 60 days in advance???
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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Just move along, move along...

Actually, I wonder what would happen if they handled it like UNI. Have a limited number that would only account for 20% of capacity (which, according to @Tom Morrow is currently at 80%). Maybe give it out to deluxe resorts and DVC resorts. Make it an add-on for everyone else. However, instead of the "just walk on up", the FP selections would still be 60 days out but you get six rides to set up. I would be very interested to see how the queue lines changed or if it would be about the same.

We'll be there next week and I'll see if I detect any impact from budget cuts, although I am typically not observant enough to figure it out. I usually am focused on having fun, avoiding shin shots from strollers, and not getting too aggravated by the herd mentality of people.

One thing that is interesting. Touring Plans has the parks on 2/3 levels but the wait times are still not short. Flight of Passage and Navi are each predicted to be at least an hour, even on days that AK is a 1/2. Just shows that they need to build higher capacity rides and more of them.
 

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