News Park attendance showing significant softness heading into the Fall 2018

[wannabeBelle]

I would say one minor change: instead of price - I would say value (to which price is a part).

Exactly!!! Marie

 

[Animaniac93-98]

We still find HS enjoyable. Even prior to TSL opening, we still had a good time. But we are not park commandos trying to get our ride count as high as possible in an effort to determine value, (not saying you are). We enjoy hanging out at Tune In Lounge or Baseline Tap House in between rides or shows and browsing around the shops. Just grabbing a beer and watching the Citizens of Hollywood is fun. HS still has a great atmosphere, IMO.

I totally agree with this and would say the same about Epcot too, but I’m in WDW right now and have yet to go in any of their parks because I cannot justify spending $102+ tax just to walk around one of them and maybe do a few rides (or spending $100s more to get a multi-day ticket because its a better “value”). I’m going to the Halloween Party tonight, but so far I’d say SeaWorld has been the highlight of the trip so far, which included HHN.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I wouldn't call it dead, but it certainly was no weekend crowd.

Good point. Just completed a survey from our trip last week, and they asked us for a detailed day-by-day listing of which parks we were in.

They had that information already in the system via (a) Gate entry records and (b) POS purchase records.

They didn’t care what parks you visited...those questions were designed to let you know that they are looking at who goes where and how much.

It’s a misdirection in data mining...which has become a “thing”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I would say one minor change: instead of price - I would say value (to which price is a part).

Well...my other consistent bully pulpit is about value and comparative decline/manipulation of expectations...

So I’m down

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I am sure there are both (check out various budget boards) -- and we'll never know how it breaks down. I know that the first time I went many years ago, that was our only family vacation for quite some time and we saved up a while for it. I'm sure we weren't alone.

But that was the “old way”...

The price assaults from the iger regime - I would venture - has wiped out a lot of the budgeted demographics.

Pay for most hasn’t gone up in decades (like the vaunted $15 and hour that doesn’t little to rectify the imbalance)...so if you can’t afford $8,000 for a week...that moneybag isn’t coming through the door...

 

[Disneyhead'71]

 

[matt9112]

Pop Warner Championships are being held during that week so the lack of availability is completely understandable. Marie

i wish all those things ended....but i get it free money its a no brainer in a time period that would otherwise be dead but i feel bad for people who happen to vaca during pip warner or cheer leading.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Winner

 

[wannabeBelle]

i wish all those things ended....but i get it free money its a no brainer in a time period that would otherwise be dead but i feel bad for people who happen to vaca during pip warner or cheer leading.

The parks usually aren't bad during this time but the hotels are packed and usually discounts are non existent for that week. Marie

 

[matt9112]

The parks usually aren't bad during this time but the hotels are packed and usually discounts are non existent for that week. Marie

well most vacations to the parks involve a hotel so still shame. i pitty the poor soul stuck in a value.
i know most groups only give the kids a day or two actually in the parks...

 

[matt9112]

Here's another data point:

It's freaking hot right now in Orlando. Has been for a while. Instead of average 80 degrees, every day is over 90. And it will continue that way next week.

So, yes, there may be long term and deep signs that attendance is flagging, such as with reduced hotel reservation, but there's also been:

1. It used to be this time of year was always 'dead.'
2. Florence cut off the Eastern Seaboard from driving to Orlando for two weeks.
3. The flipping heat is surely suppressing locals with APs waiting for nicer weather to pop in.

i saw NC and Sc plates all day for an entire week. i think they evaced to us.

 

[geekza]

I think part of it, also, is that the environment in which people are exposed to Disney has changed. Until the 1980's most people only had access to 3-4 TV channels. We went to the movies more often as well. Plus, no Internet. If you had a presence on network television, you were reaching a huge percentage of the population. What was on Sunday night television and had been since the 1950's? Disney. Families would tune in together to watch the Disney TV program. It was an institution. Plus, many episodes would focus on the parks or show classic Disney cartoons and films. They weren't just selling content, they were "part of the family" in the eyes of many people. They were reliable, safe, and usually had a level of quality that was consistently higher than other offerings. When you went to Disneyland or, later, Walt Disney World, it was like visiting a relative's house who just happened to have the coolest backyard in the world. The company was very good at making you believe that they took the words, "To all who come to this happy place, welcome," seriously. I'm not naïve (nor, I think were most people who were going to Disney during that time) enough to forget that they were a company, but the guest experience was a huge priority back then for Disney. They went out of their way to be courteous, empathetic to guest issues, and provide an almost flawless experience with regard to the attractions and park condition. Because of these factors, the parks gained a devoted following that helped make them the financial success that they are today.

Fast-forward to the present. Disney is omnipresent in our lives because of the rise of cable television and the Internet. They've bought up many beloved franchises and have made sure that everyone knows that Disney is in charge of them now. With that said, our cultural connection to Disney is now a fragmented one. Everyone is exposed to Disney in one way or another, but you don't have entire families connecting with "Disney" through a shared experience. Kids and tweens have the Disney Channel. Young boys have DisneyXD. Comic and Action film fans have the Marvel and Star Wars films. They market themselves to women with their various "lifestyle brands." The upshot of this is that, though the numbers of people who are attracted in one way or another to a Disney property has grown, by diversifying and fragmenting so much, they aren't developing the staunch loyalty that they once did. Another effect of this expansion has been that the central core values and identity that originally earned the almost-fanatical love and loyalty to the parks have been diluted to near-extinction in the name of chasing fads and targeting specific demographics in order to quickly bolster the bottom line on quarterly earnings reports. Meanwhile, all of this acquisition and rush to capitalize on trends and IP exploitation is costing the company a lot of money. In order to pay for these things, the public are paying more and more each day for their "Disney Tax" if they want to go to the parks. If they could charge you for each raindrop that falls in the summer in Orlando, they would, and would sell umbrellas and Minnie Ears that say, "Moisture Magic!" Increasing revenue also comes from decreasing things like attraction and building upkeep, decreasing staffing, and either eliminating little things that used to be given to guests at no charge or else beginning to charge for them (at a substantial markup).

I'm not interested in people telling me, "They're a business and that's how business works." I've heard it a million times and it doesn't address the issues. There will be a time when it's too much. At a certain point, the things that made people love the Disney parks above all others will no longer be there. The cost of going to the parks is already out of reach of a huge percentage of families who used to be able to go, at least occasionally. There's no way for the parks to remain culturally relevant when they are only available to the wealthy and have driven away their fanbase. If the company continues on its current trajectory, it's not a question of if, it's a question of when.

Do I think that the current softness is the beginning of the "Mousepocalypse?" No. I think that it's just a soft period before Galaxy's Edge and the 50th. Crowds will rebound and, at least through 2021 (barring an unforeseen economic crash or disaster), the parks will be fine. I do think that there are warning signs all around that point to trouble for them on the horizon, though.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

well most vacations to the parks involve a hotel so still shame. i pitty the poor soul stuck in a value.
i know most groups only give the kids a day or two actually in the parks...

I can tell you from my time inside that those events are an absolute gold mine for revenue...they bring in way more ancillary money even if they are on convention rates/tickets. The families spend like sailors in Singapore

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I think part of it, also, is that the environment in which people are exposed to Disney has changed. Until the 1980's most people only had access to 3-4 TV channels. We went to the movies more often as well. Plus, no Internet. If you had a presence on network television, you were reaching a huge percentage of the population. What was on Sunday night television and had been since the 1950's? Disney. Families would tune in together to watch the Disney TV program. It was an institution. Plus, many episodes would focus on the parks or show classic Disney cartoons and films. They weren't just selling content, they were "part of the family" in the eyes of many people. They were reliable, safe, and usually had a level of quality that was consistently higher than other offerings. When you went to Disneyland or, later, Walt Disney World, it was like visiting a relative's house who just happened to have the coolest backyard in the world. The company was very good at making you believe that they took the words, "To all who come to this happy place, welcome," seriously. I'm not naïve. nor, I think were most people who were going to Disney during that time, enough to forget that they were a company, but the guest experience was a huge priority back then for Disney. They went out of their way to be courteous, empathetic to guest issues, and provide an almost flawless experience with regard to the attractions and park condition. Because of these factors, the parks gained a devoted following that helped make them the financial success that they are today.

Fast-forward to the present. Disney is omnipresent in our lives because of the rise of cable television and the Internet. They've bought up many beloved franchises and have made sure that everyone knows that Disney is in charge of them now. With that said, our cultural connection to Disney is now a fragmented one. Everyone is exposed to Disney in one way or another, but you don't have entire families connecting with "Disney" through a shared experience. Kids and tweens have the Disney Channel. Young boys have DisneyXD. Comic and Action film fans have the Marvel and Star Wars films. They market themselves to women with their various "lifestyle brands." The upshot of this is that, though the numbers of people who are attracted in one way or another to a Disney property has grown, by diversifying and fragmenting so much, they aren't developing the staunch loyalty that they once did. Another effect of this expansion has been that the central core values and identity that originally earned the almost-fanatical love and loyalty to the parks have been diluted to near-extinction in the name of chasing fads and targeting specific demographics in order to quickly bolster the bottom line on quarterly earnings reports. Meanwhile, all of this acquisition and rush to capitalize on trends and IP exploitation is costing the company a lot of money. In order to pay for these things, the public are paying more and more each day for their "Disney Tax" if they want to go to the parks. If they could charge you for each raindrop that falls in the summer in Orlando, they would, and would sell umbrellas and Minnie Ears that say, "Moisture Magic!" Increasing revenue also comes from decreasing things like attraction and building upkeep, decreasing staffing, and either eliminating little things that used to be given to guests at no charge or else beginning to charge for them (at a substantial markup).

I'm not interested in people telling me, "They're a business and that's how business works." I've heard it a million times and it doesn't address the issues. There will be a time when it's too much. At a certain point, the things that made people love the Disney parks above all others will no longer be there. The cost of going to the parks is already out of reach of a huge percentage of families who used to be able to go, at least occasionally. There's no way for the parks to remain culturally relevant when they are only available to the wealthy and have driven away their fanbase. If the company continues on its current trajectory, it's not a question of if, it's a question of when.

Do I think that the current softness is the beginning of the "Mousepocalypse?" No. I think that it's just a soft period before Galaxy's Edge and the 50th. Crowds will rebound and, at least through 2021 (barring an unforeseen economic crash or disaster), the parks will be fine. I do think that there are warning signs all around that point to trouble for them on the horizon, though.

The Walt Disney Home Video generation is now taking their children to the parks. Will those kids grow up with the same brand attachment when so much of “Disney” today is something else (Star Wars, Marvel) and competition from other children’s programs and advertising is higher and stronger now than when it ever was during the Disney Renaissance?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The Walt Disney Home Video generation is now taking their children to the parks. Will those kids grow up with the same brand attachment when so much of “Disney” today is something else (Star Wars, Marvel) and competition from other children’s programs and advertising is higher and stronger now than when it ever was during the Disney Renaissance?

Huge question...

Not only media changes...but consumption of consumer products.

Kids have heavily moved away from toys...
Lost in the hubbub last year was that Star Wars 8 shipped 50% the product that 7 did.

Less product...even if a higher gross...contracts the marketing net Disney parks have always cast

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

The Walt Disney Home Video generation is now taking their children to the parks. Will those kids grow up with the same brand attachment when so much of “Disney” today is something else (Star Wars, Marvel) and competition from other children’s programs and advertising is higher and stronger now than when it ever was during the Disney Renaissance?

The epitome of anecdotal info: My kids have, and already talk about how they can't see themselves not continuing to visit. They're 12 and 13, so I guess we'll see!

 

[smile]

I would say one minor change: instead of price - I would say value (to which price is a part).

good point.

always like to remind folks a simple truth dj warren b rapped about, "price is what you pay. value is what you get."
- simple, but people seem to lose sight sometimes and it's a vital distinction to remember.

value and quality used to be attributes rarely questioned of twdc, but they're a bit more of a slippery slope now,
... made even slipperier by the choice to simultaneously raise prices of their own accord.


cat and mouse...but who's who?
does it even matter to you?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

good point.

always like to remind folks a simple truth dj warren b rapped about, "price is what you pay. value is what you get."
- simple, but people seem to lose sight sometimes and it's a vital distinction to remember.

value and quality used to be attributes rarely questioned of twdc, but they're a bit more of a slippery slope now,
... made even slipperier by the choice to simultaneously raise prices of their own accord.


cat and mouse...but who's who?
does it even matter to you?

 

[polynesiangirl]

...hopefully posting in the right thread this time, ugh. I need more coffee.

We just got back a few days ago. I thought the crowds were pretty robust, or at least to my eyes they seemed about the same as this exact time last year, but I'm no expert or anything (despite having been to WDW a billion times, hahaha). We didn't really use FP for much, and we didn't really need to. The posted wait times might have been a little bit inflated (e.g. I'd say we waited about 30-40 for Slinky when the posted time was something like 50 or 60,) but they weren't wildly off-base, at least for us.

We skipped FoP entirely because the posted wait time was still 120 minutes at one point, and a huge portion of the line was out in the sun on a very hot day. Maybe the wait was actually shorter in reality, but I wasn't willing to risk it (one of my kids isn't tall enough to ride it anyways so it was even less appealing.)

 

[geekza]

...hopefully posting in the right thread this time, ugh. I need more coffee.

I've done that several times. I feel your pain. What makes it worse when I do it is that I tend to rant, so it comes across as even more insane than I normally do. lol