Pandoran problems 4.25.18

[jmmc]

I do hope you are saying this in jest because if you are not, this is the most ridiculous 'Disney-is-Evil' conspiracy statement I've ever read. To even suggest they are shutting down a marquee attraction to save labor cost is patently ridiculous. Obviously they had a technical or safety problem that forced this and they'll re-open as whatever that problem is resolved. They don't want it down either.

Purposely doing things that upset guests would be ridiculous. And even if you DID want to do that, wouldn't you shut down an unpopular ride???

 

[jmmc]

Absolutely not. Shared facilities is key to a better utilization of space, enabling the shaping of space and facilitates the layering of experiences.

I'm sure there are reasons to do that. Just saying that if these rides were in two buildings, a fire alarm issue would only shut down one ride at a time.

 

[monothingie]

I've seen 2 reports from sources I trust this morning that the issues are a recurrence of the fire alarm/suppression system reporting false positives again. They had similar issues right at launch last summer and everyone thought they had stabilized them, but it appears that is not the case. Unfortunately, when it comes to life/safety systems like that you must evacuate the attraction for the safety of guests and cast members until you stabilize the environment and restore the system to a proper operating state. They are not legally allowed to have people in the buildings without a properly working fire alarm/suppression system.

It's a connected building with FOP, with a single fire alarm system. So if there were a problem with the system both rides would be affected.

A fire alarm activation will shutdown the ride system, trigger an evacuation, bring up the house lights, etc to facilitate evacuation. If there is a problem sensor it can be disabled, or programing changes can be made to bypass until repairs are made.

 

[xdan0920]

Jest or not, I believe we've seen this seriously suggested on more than one occasion.

I heard that's why Horizons closed.

 

[donsullivan]

I'm sure there are reasons to do that. Just saying that if these rides were in two buildings, a fire alarm issue would only shut down one ride at a time.

The fact that these 2 attractions share a building is not anything new or unique to Pandora at all. It's a technique that has been used for decades by Disney. If you've ever looked at a satellite image of the magic Kingdom you'd notice things like Hall of Presidents, Columbia Harbor House, Peter Pan's Flight, Mickey's Philharmagic and a few shops are all in the same building and something like this would have the same impact here. There are countless examples of this all over the magic Kingdom. It's not a new construction method at all.

 

[matt9112]

The fact that these 2 attractions share a building is not anything new or unique to Pandora at all. It's a technique that has been used for decades by Disney. If you've ever looked at a satellite image of the magic Kingdom you'd notice things like Hall of Presidents, Columbia Harbor House, Peter Pan's Flight, Mickey's Philharmagic and a few shops are all in the same building and something like this would have the same impact here. There are countless examples of this all over the magic Kingdom. It's not a new construction method at all.

how often have all of those rides been evacuated at the same time? just hope they fix this issue for good. at this point replace the hardware period etc.

 

[TestTrack]

We got back from our trip on Friday. I can understand their frustration. We went to Hollywood studios to ride the marquee attractions (yes we knew it wouldn't take long). When we got there we knew Tower was closed...we walked to RNRC and it was closed too. We rode toy story mania and star tours which both had (understandably) very long waits because...what's really left? We waited as long as we could but the rides showed no sign of coming back up so we left. I felt bad for anyone without a park hopper that was stuck in that park. The next day we went to Animal Kingdom and waited in the morning line to ride FoP. We got on and then decided to go hit our fastpasses and come back for river and FoP again. Not too long after both rides went down for the same reason (I heard something about fire detection). We kinda waited around a bit and eventually they let people on to FoP. I waited in line and then they closed it again saying that they hadn't received approval to open it and it was a mistake. They gave out fastpasses. The ride did eventually open a few hours later and we got to go on that plus River again but it was a bit of a PR mess. When you have one park with hardly any rides that you are leaving open and two of the major rides go down and then you go to AK where there aren't that many rides and you have the two new ones go down it looks bad. They need to get a few issues fixed. Maybe its just knowing more now that we have the app but I've never seen rides go down so much in any past trip.

To their credit Disney handled it just fine for the most part. We got on our rides (except we never went back to HS). But I'm sure they had quite the wait at guest relations at both parks those days.

 

[donsullivan]

Exactly, if they didn't want to give out fastpasses to everyone they could have given them flight of passage stuffed animals or gift cards to build up good will for an unmagical day.

While I do not disagree with the thought here, it seem too many (not pointing at you directly) guests feel they are entitled to something if any part of their visit does not go exactly the way they planned it out. That is not a model that is sustainable for Disney. The moment they do it once, the Internet learns about it and everyone expects it every time something happens. That is just not a vialble business or service model for any company.

Sometimes, stuff just happens.

how often have all of those rides been evacuated at the same time? just hope they fix this issue for good. at this point replace the hardware period etc.

My guess is those MK locations have a much lower tech fire alarm/suppression system vs what they put into this building and the time that has passed they've been able to knock all the kinks out of those. This has all the hallmarks of using a system that is just a little too 'state of the art' for it's own good that does not have the reliability necessary for a structure like this.

 

[DisneyJeff]

Two words: Unmagical. Vacation.

Oh God, I really hope @katiebug101 was not in Animal Kingdom yesterday!!! We will never hear the end of it!!!

 

[matt9112]

While I do not disagree with the thought here, it seem too many (not pointing at you directly) guests feel they are entitled to something if any part of their visit does not go exactly the way they planned it out. That is not a model that is sustainable for Disney. The moment they do it once, the Internet learns about it and expects it every time something happens. That is just not a vialble business or service model for any company.

Sometimes, stuff just happens.



My guess is those MK locations have a much lower tech fire alarm/suppression system vs what they put into this building. This has all the hallmarks of using a system that is just a little too 'state of the art' for it's own good that does not have the reliability necessary for a structure like this.

I'm in HVAC and we are seeing just this....everything is so heavily regulated and such that there's so many components to fail now....

 

[mikejs78]

Is that the same as the campaign plan by folks here to convince people that planning a WDW vacation requires a PhD in organization?

Disney should standardize their booking windows for everything, so there aren't so many timelines to remember and you can do the whole thing at once, but beyond that, if 10 minutes at 180 and 60 days is soul crushing and "too much planning" then maybe a lower key vacation is more your speed. Or you know....don't book that far out. Still plenty of options day of more often or not.

We rarely book right at the opening timeline and have yet to have the life changing disappointment on our trips that folks here claim will happen if you don't map your day out in MS Project.

Agreed. Although I planned this past trip moreso, there have been others in the past where I haven't planned as much and have had a great time. Even this time, I was able

This.

When the two newest and most popular rides in all WDW are down for an entire day, they should compensate. Simple as that.

I think the disagreement is the *level* of compensation. Free FPs? Sure. Offer those without a PH to transfer to another park? Sure. Full refund? That's ridiculous.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

This drives me insane to no end. They are just looking for some compensation which will end up being a fastpass. You're ruining your vacation for something completely out of your control. For every attraction that is dow, there are several more to go and enjoy. Now Disney definitely should take some blame but unless I have a major issue, I am not waiting in line for a possible free ice cream bar.

Exactly, go on to plan B or C.

 

[jmmc]

The fact that these 2 attractions share a building is not anything new or unique to Pandora at all. It's a technique that has been used for decades by Disney. If you've ever looked at a satellite image of the magic Kingdom you'd notice things like Hall of Presidents, Columbia Harbor House, Peter Pan's Flight, Mickey's Philharmagic and a few shops are all in the same building and something like this would have the same impact here. There are countless examples of this all over the magic Kingdom. It's not a new construction method at all.

I get you. I really just meant that as kind of a joke, anyway. Not a real criticism.

 

[MrPromey]

It’s as if everyone forgets that just one year ago to the day, this land didn’t exist.
The difference between yesterday at DAK and a year ago at DAK is exactly the same.

... Unless you consider guest headcount as a result of this heavily marketed land and set of attractions in which case, it's not quite the same.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

Could the issue be with the Orange smell from FoP? Stupid question I know but it's worth asking.

 

[ThatMouse]

I would argue that Disney needs something else besides the 'super' fast pass ticket as compensation. I don't know what it would be - a free beer? Just something simple really. If you're in line, you should get it. FP is a separate issue. Nothing else to do at the park you paid $100 for? Separate issue.

We got one of these from Splash, but it was our last day and we were headed to EPCOT. The pass was only good for MK. So it was just strange to me we were given something completely useless.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

I would argue that Disney needs something else besides the 'super' fast pass ticket as compensation. I don't know what it would be - a free beer? Just something simple really. If you're in line, you should get it. FP is a separate issue. Nothing else to do at the park you paid $100 for? Separate issue.

We got one of these from Splash, but it was our last day and we were headed to EPCOT. The pass was only good for MK. So it was just strange to me we were given something completely useless.

splash is a bit different situation than an attraction that some people planned their whole trip around.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm sure there are reasons to do that. Just saying that if these rides were in two buildings, a fire alarm issue would only shut down one ride at a time.

That is not necessarily true depending on the systems, construction types and separation distances. There are also different ways to handle a single building.

 

[MrPromey]

On some level that strikes me as a problem - where it is better to "give away" - some number of approximately $100 tickets than to provide a slot in a ride queue. If the FP system is constantly running at 100% capacity then there is no margin for error and we all know stuff happens. Even JIT supply chains don't run with 0% slack.

It's better when there are no or not enough "slots" to give away. Think of it as a problem in your hotel room when the hotel is booked solid for the night. They can't move you to another room so they offer you a free night.

Yeah, they may lose money down the road on that free night but they can't really do anything for you in the here-and-now that gives you what you want.

In the case of a ride like FOP, I suppose they could just give everyone impacted an anytime fastpass and then watch the fastpass line balloon to a 4 hour wait. What does that accomplish? It royally angers the people with fastpasses for that timeframe and does nothing to really help the people you gave the "extra" fastpasses to.

Giving people tickets to come back seems like a huge gesture given the price guests pay to get in but it is really only a potential opportunity cost for Disney. The only way they lose out is if someone is using that ticket at a point they would have gone anyway and paid full price or on a day when the park has to close for capacity and they couldn't sell someone a ticket because that person got in for free.

Even if they lose out on the chance to sell that person a ticket for the day they decide to use it because having the free ticket wasn't the main motivation to go on that particular day, they still stand a good chance of making better-than-otherwise money on that guest in terms of food and merchandise sales since many people are inclined to "splurge" more when they feel they have gotten a deal - like buying concessions at a movie theater when going on a free ticket when you might otherwise not have if you'd paid full price to get in.

Would that hit break-even on a ticket price? Maybe. Maybe not but it isn't necessarily as bad as saying they lost $100 in that situation.

Free tickets are probably one of the easiest things for Disney to offer as long as they don't do it all the time for any and every reason and it feels to the guest like a major compensation when in reality, you just walked out of there without Disney refunding you anything, without giving you anything that it really cost them anything to produce (like food or merchandise), and it means you're coming back with the likelihood of spending more money with them in the future.

 

[George]

While I do not disagree with the thought here, it seem too many (not pointing at you directly) guests feel they are entitled to something if any part of their visit does not go exactly the way they planned it out. That is not a model that is sustainable for Disney. The moment they do it once, the Internet learns about it and everyone expects it every time something happens. That is just not a vialble business or service model for any company.

I'd agree with the post above more

Several days out of the 60 days, sure. But maybe you leave an extra day at the end for issues like this, just in case.

if an understanding of game theory wasn't necessary to book rides for Maximal Ride Opportunity (MRO). If I'm spending many thousands for a vacation and I used time at home or work early in the morning 2+months ago to get a reservation for something I am at least planning part of my day around some compensation isn't unreasonable. Disney made this system. The consequences are their burden.