Paint the night is not moving to Disney World. Stop bumping this.

[Crazydisneyfanluke]

I remember when FOF was the highlight of conversation during its opening it was discussed/rumored of having evening performances and replacing MSEP while a new parade gets created. If done right with adding additional onboard lighting and colored parade route lighting, asside from the already equipped hub lighting, FOF could be really awesome at night and easily get MK by for a few years with no light parade.

Will that actually happen however, I'm not going to hold my breath. I think WDW is going to keep FOF at 3pm and only have Move it shake it dance and play it, Celebrate the magic and Wishes. I'm sure they see MSEP leaving as a way to cut costs, so why would they want to pay the FOF performers for a second performance each day?

I think someone mentioned in the FOF thread that some Floats already have on board lighting as well as strobes.

 

[TP2000]

Wouldn't the two listing of Fantasmic! and WoC at DLR only be during peak times? I mean, if you are going to do that, you should also account for the fact that Wishes and Fantasmic! at WDW run 2 times a night during peak times as well, which would bring the total to 9 a day. You have to compare apples to apples, not peak DLR entertainment versus "regular" times at WDW.

I was just comparing entertainment offered today, August 24th 2016, at WDW. But you are right, there are peak times when they offer two Fantasmic! shows and such. There are also peak times at Disneyland when they offer three Fantasmic! shows per night, with the third show slotting in at 11:30pm. (A schedule widely expected next summer for the debut of Fantasmic! 2.0)

Tonight, Wednesday August 24th, the "Night Spectacular" entertainment schedule is the following;

WDW Resort
1 Fantasmic! at 8:30pm
1 Star Wars Fireworks at 8:45pm
1 Reflections of Earth at 9:00pm
2 MSEP at 9:00pm and 11:00pm
1 Wishes Fireworks at 10:00pm
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/entertainment/#/fireworks,nighttime-spectacular,Parades/

At Disneyland tonight the park is open until Midnight and there will be two performances of Paint The Night and fireworks, and at DCA tonight the park is open until 10:00pm and there will be two performances of World of Color. There will also have been two different afternoon parades, one in each park. If the Rivers of America wasn't drained for Star Wars Land construction, there would be two performances of Fantasmic! historically scheduled for that type of peak operating day.

The question isn't why Disneyland has as many, if not more, daily scheduled performances of major parades and night spectaculars than WDW does. The question is why doesn't WDW have double the number of major parades and night spectaculars scheduled than Disneyland does??? Looking at the daily schedule, it's obvious TDO is trying to do the absolute bear minimum as they can spread as thinly across all four parks as logistically possible, with shows that have an average age of 10+ years old.

And then if you bring that up in conversation, all these folks jump up with all these excuses defending TDO why that is okay. It's not okay.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I was just comparing entertainment offered today, August 24th 2016, at WDW. But you are right, there are peak times when they offer two Fantasmic! shows and such. There are also peak times at Disneyland when they offer three Fantasmic! shows per night, with the third show slotting in at 11:30pm. (A schedule widely expected next summer for the debut of Fantasmic! 2.0)

Tonight, Wednesday August 24th, the "Night Spectacular" entertainment schedule is the following;

WDW Resort
1 Fantasmic! at 8:30pm
1 Star Wars Fireworks at 8:45pm
1 Reflections of Earth at 9:00pm
2 MSEP at 9:00pm and 11:00pm
1 Wishes Fireworks at 10:00pm
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/entertainment/#/fireworks,nighttime-spectacular,Parades/

At Disneyland tonight the park is open until Midnight and there will be two performances of Paint The Night and fireworks, and at DCA tonight the park is open until 10:00pm and there will be two performances of World of Color. There will also have been two different afternoon parades, one in each park. If the Rivers of America wasn't drained for Star Wars Land construction, there would be two performances of Fantasmic! historically scheduled for that type of peak operating day.

The question isn't why Disneyland has as many, if not more, daily scheduled performances of major parades and night spectaculars than WDW does. The question is why doesn't WDW have double the number of major parades and night spectaculars scheduled than Disneyland does??? Looking at the daily schedule, it's obvious TDO is trying to do the absolute bear minimum as they can spread as thinly across all four parks as logistically possible, with shows that have an average age of 10+ years old.

And then if you bring that up in conversation, all these folks jump up with all these excuses defending TDO why that is okay. It's not okay.

On top of underdelivering on entertainment at WDW, Fantasmic, Illuminations, Wishes and MSEP are 18, 17, 13 and 44 years old, respectively, with little to no changes since their debuts. Star Wars at DHS is the only new offering, and if ROL ever makes it online, it will be brand new as well. Both offerings are to be commended, but they're not enough.

In what world is it okay for Disney to present a 13 year old fireworks show and a 44 year old light parade as world-class entertainment at what is supposedly the most-attended theme park in the world? Why are Epcot guests treated to the same fireworks show they were in 1999? Why has Fantasmic been left to rot at DHS with no upgrades or updates in 18 years?

Because WDW guests love them. They love their old, rotting nighttime shows. They love their old rotting daytime shows too (looking at you Beauty and the Beast). WDW guests get what they want - the same old creaky entertainment, year in and year out.

 

[Mike S]

On top of underdelivering on entertainment at WDW, Fantasmic, Illuminations, Wishes and MSEP are 18, 17, 13 and 44 years old, respectively, with little to no changes since their debuts. Star Wars at DHS is the only new offering, and if ROL ever makes it online, it will be brand new as well. Both offerings are to be commended, but they're not enough.

In what world is it okay for Disney to present a 13 year old fireworks show and a 44 year old light parade as world-class entertainment at what is supposedly the most-attended theme park in the world? Why are Epcot guests treated to the same fireworks show they were in 1999? Why has Fantasmic been left to rot at DHS with no upgrades or updates in 18 years?

Because WDW guests love them. They love their old, rotting nighttime shows. They love their old rotting daytime shows too (looking at you Beauty and the Beast). WDW guests get what they want - the same old creaky entertainment, year in and year out.

DLR fans loved Aladdin too and TDA still replaced it with something great and new. Totally different vibe out there.

 

[Speedy71]

On top of underdelivering on entertainment at WDW, Fantasmic, Illuminations, Wishes and MSEP are 18, 17, 13 and 44 years old, respectively, with little to no changes since their debuts. Star Wars at DHS is the only new offering, and if ROL ever makes it online, it will be brand new as well. Both offerings are to be commended, but they're not enough.

In what world is it okay for Disney to present a 13 year old fireworks show and a 44 year old light parade as world-class entertainment at what is supposedly the most-attended theme park in the world? Why are Epcot guests treated to the same fireworks show they were in 1999? Why has Fantasmic been left to rot at DHS with no upgrades or updates in 18 years?

Because WDW guests love them. They love their old, rotting nighttime shows. They love their old rotting daytime shows too (looking at you Beauty and the Beast). WDW guests get what they want - the same old creaky entertainment, year in and year out.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

DLR fans loved Aladdin too and TDA still replaced it with something great and new. Totally different vibe out there.

Yes, and TDA should be applauded for barreling through the ridiculous fan tears over Aladdin, a 13 year old stage show that overstayed its welcome. Stage shows shouldn't run for longer than 5 years IMO, so I hope Frozen, despite being a great show, is changed out for something else by 2021.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I am guilty of this unconditional love when it comes to IllumiNations, so I really don't have room to smack talk the entertainment offerings since I'll be the first to throw a hissy fit when its replaced

I understand the attachment that's formed to these kinds of shows. They're great shows, which is why they've lasted as long as they have. It's just that entertainment HAS to be updated and switched out and freshened and changed. It has to, or the parks stagnate. New memories and attachments will be made to the new show, and so on. People will prefer the old one, or they'll prefer the new one, and in 5 years or so, it should be switched out again. It's the cycle of entertainment life.

That said, WDW's inability to change out entertainment has made this worse. Attachments to these old shows are far deeper rooted than they should be, and they will face big backlash for changing them - and that's no one's fault but their own for letting the shows overstay.

 

[Mike S]

Yes, and TDA should be applauded for barreling through the ridiculous fan tears over Aladdin, a 13 year old stage show that overstayed its welcome. Stage shows shouldn't run for longer than 5 years IMO, so I hope Frozen, despite being a great show, is changed out for something else by 2021.

I'm thankful that I got to see it once. Would've liked twice. As to Frozen maybe it could change out shortly after you guys get Arendelle.

I understand the attachment that's formed to these kinds of shows. They're great shows, which is why they've lasted as long as they have. It's just that entertainment HAS to be updated and switched out and freshened and changed. It has to, or the parks stagnate. New memories and attachments will be made to the new show, and so on. People will prefer the old one, or they'll prefer the new one, and in 5 years or so, it should be switched out again. It's the cycle of entertainment life.

That said, WDW's inability to change out entertainment has made this worse. Attachments to these old shows are far deeper rooted than they should be, and they will face big backlash for changing them - and that's no one's fault but their own for letting the shows overstay.

Perfectly stated.

 

[MUTZIE77]

That said, WDW's inability to change out entertainment has made this worse. Attachments to these old shows are far deeper rooted than they should be, and they will face big backlash for changing them - and that's no one's fault but their own for letting the shows overstay.

It's certainly not inability, it's an unwillingness to go bigger and better than before. I am sure the guest satisfaction ratings are high for all nighttime spectaculars, so the TDO mindset is why spend the money when everyone loves them. Whereas TDA will give you a new show that will be amazing whether you like it or not.

 

[Next Big Thing]

It was actually 15 years, as The Mulan Parade was created as a night parade that ran at night in 1998 and 1999.

After that Disneyland had Fantasmic!, plus a big fireworks show, plus whatever afternoon parade was running at that time.

DCA had an afternoon parade and then the Electrical Parade at night to play against the fireworks and Fantasmic! next door.

In 2015, before Fantasmic! was closed for its Fantasmic! 2.0 upgrade due to the Star Wars Land construction, the daily peak DLR schedule was this, all within a 5 to 10 minute walk from each other in two adjacent theme parks;

3:30 PM - Mickey's Soundsational Parade (Disneyland Park)
5:00 PM - Pixar Play Parade (DCA Park)
5:45 PM - Mickey's Soundsational Parade (Disneyland Park)
8:45 PM - Paint The Night Parade (Disneyland Park)
9:00 PM - Fantasmic! (Disneyland Park)
9:00 PM - World of Color (DCA Park)
9:30 PM - Disneyland Forever! fireworks spectacular (Disneyland Park)
10:15 PM - World of Color (DCA Park)
10:30 PM - Fantasmic! (Disneyland Park)

That's three different parades performed five times per day, plus two different water shows performed four times per day, plus a fireworks show inbetween. In two little, tiny theme parks jammed in just 100 yards from each other. That's nine (9) daily offerings of parades and night spectaculars.

Meanwhile, at WDW, there are currently two parades with three performances per day (1 FOF, 2 MSEP), plus two water shows with one performance each (1 Fantasmic!, 1 ROE), and two fireworks shows (1 Wishes, 1 Star Wars). That's seven (7) daily offerings of parades and night spectaculars. In four HUGE theme parks sprawled across a massive piece of property that in 1966 Walt said would offer "the blessing of size". From a Parks & Resorts division that created $994 Million in after-tax profit in the last Fiscal 2016 quarter, just 90 days of business.

Assuming WDW's four parks would double the offerings of DLR's two parks, you would think WDW would have 18 daily offerings of various parades, fireworks and water shows. It's fascinating to consider that WDW has recently offered less daily performances of parades and night spectaculars than Disneyland Resort has. How do you even justify that if you are TDO?

If you were just talking about night entertainment between the 2 resorts, sure, you've got a point. A great one at that. But you brought daytime entertainment into the equation with the parades, so I think that calls for including stage shows as well.

DLR has Magical Map, Frozen, and the Fantasy Faire shows.

WDW has Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Indiana Jones, Frozen Sing-a-long, Lion King, Finding Nemo, and Flights of Wonder. Maybe I should also count Lights, Motors, Action! too since this is apparently still 2015 (...and while we're at it, maybe I should include Rivers of Light since we're including things currently not performing, but will be...). And I didn't even include, the Castle show, but I was only counting things with a roof overhead. Oh, and you didn't include Celebrate the Magic in your nighttime offerings either.

I'm in no way saying WDW's entertainment is better. I just visited DLR for 5 days in July and enjoyed the hell out of it. But you painted the most extreme picture to make DL seem perfect and WDW like there's nothing to do, which is blatantly untrue.

 

[TTA94]

I wonder how many MK CMs still believe PTN is coming.

 

[mikenatcity1]

If you were just talking about night entertainment between the 2 resorts, sure, you've got a point. A great one at that. But you brought daytime entertainment into the equation with the parades, so I think that calls for including stage shows as well.

DLR has Magical Map, Frozen, and the Fantasy Faire shows.

WDW has Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Indiana Jones, Frozen Sing-a-long, Lion King, Finding Nemo, and Flights of Wonder. Maybe I should also count Lights, Motors, Action! too since this is apparently still 2015 (...and while we're at it, maybe I should include Rivers of Light since we're including things currently not performing, but will be...). And I didn't even include, the Castle show, but I was only counting things with a roof overhead. Oh, and you didn't include Celebrate the Magic in your nighttime offerings either.

I'm in no way saying WDW's entertainment is better. I just visited DLR for 5 days in July and enjoyed the hell out of it. But you painted the most extreme picture to make DL seem perfect and WDW like there's nothing to do, which is blatantly untrue.

I was doing this comparison last night in the car with a friend of mine and thought the same thing While DL has a fair amount of entertainment, WDW has a great deal more...while some of it is older than a lot of people, it still draws the crowds (I can't degrade that- I love Wishes and Illuminations and miss Spectromagic!)

 

[mikenatcity1]

On top of underdelivering on entertainment at WDW, Fantasmic, Illuminations, Wishes and MSEP are 18, 17, 13 and 44 years old, respectively, with little to no changes since their debuts. Star Wars at DHS is the only new offering, and if ROL ever makes it online, it will be brand new as well. Both offerings are to be commended, but they're not enough.

In what world is it okay for Disney to present a 13 year old fireworks show and a 44 year old light parade as world-class entertainment at what is supposedly the most-attended theme park in the world? Why are Epcot guests treated to the same fireworks show they were in 1999? Why has Fantasmic been left to rot at DHS with no upgrades or updates in 18 years?

Because WDW guests love them. They love their old, rotting nighttime shows. They love their old rotting daytime shows too (looking at you Beauty and the Beast). WDW guests get what they want - the same old creaky entertainment, year in and year out.

I told a friend about the parade going away and nothing announced (yet) for her February 2017 trip and she is devastated- she loves MSEP and thought it looked amazing...she also thinks Fantasmic is one of the best shows available to see. It seems that WDW is almost to be kept more of a museum of memories than to be ever changing as it was originally intended. I wish WDW was willing to change and upgrade/update...it would sure make going there all the time so much easier and exciting!

 

[rreading]

I understand the attachment that's formed to these kinds of shows. They're great shows, which is why they've lasted as long as they have. It's just that entertainment HAS to be updated and switched out and freshened and changed. It has to, or the parks stagnate. New memories and attachments will be made to the new show, and so on. People will prefer the old one, or they'll prefer the new one, and in 5 years or so, it should be switched out again. It's the cycle of entertainment life.

That said, WDW's inability to change out entertainment has made this worse. Attachments to these old shows are far deeper rooted than they should be, and they will face big backlash for changing them - and that's no one's fault but their own for letting the shows overstay.

Obviously some/many feel this way - that things need to be new...but how old are you, GMTM? Not personal, but when we have grown up with MSEP and are loving the nostalgia of seeing it and having our children growing up with it, it is something we miss. If you're in your twenties, then you don't have this perspective. Something new could be better, but DL Forever to me was NOT better then RDCT; did we really need Captain Jack Sparrow on POTC? And Wishes, while it could be considered stale (if you want to think of it that way) is still beautiful, and effectively timeless for this audience.

Change for the sake of change is not always a good thing. Ideally, TDO would replace/refresh things that need updating; and then maintain the things which need maintaining. And then expand. It's not like they've tapped out their potential. Add new parades in their other parks before retiring/replacing a classic.

However, in this case - I understand it probably wasn't their choice. It seems to have been TDA's parade to reclaim as they chose.

 

[ford91exploder]

Obviously some/many feel this way - that things need to be new...but how old are you, GMTM? Not personal, but when we have grown up with MSEP and are loving the nostalgia of seeing it and having our children growing up with it, it is something we miss. If you're in your twenties, then you don't have this perspective. Something new could be better, but DL Forever to me was NOT better then RDCT; did we really need Captain Jack Sparrow on POTC? And Wishes, while it could be considered stale (if you want to think of it that way) is still beautiful, and effectively timeless for this audience.

Change for the sake of change is not always a good thing. Ideally, TDO would replace/refresh things that need updating; and then maintain the things which need maintaining. And then expand. It's not like they've tapped out their potential. Add new parades in their other parks before retiring/replacing a classic.

However, in this case - I understand it probably wasn't their choice. It seems to have been TDA's parade to reclaim as they chose.

But it WAS TDO's choice to destroy Spectromagic a couple years ago and not have a replacement for MSEP funded as it was obvious that DL and/or Disney Archives would want MSEP back at some point.

 

[ford91exploder]

I told a friend about the parade going away and nothing announced (yet) for her February 2017 trip and she is devastated- she loves MSEP and thought it looked amazing...she also thinks Fantasmic is one of the best shows available to see. It seems that WDW is almost to be kept more of a museum of memories than to be ever changing as it was originally intended. I wish WDW was willing to change and upgrade/update...it would sure make going there all the time so much easier and exciting!

Well up to the beginning of the Iger era at WDW there was always something new even if it was just a show, Now the only NEW things at WDW is what's been cut THIS month without a replacement.

 

[TTA94]

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...eet-electrical-parade-povs-live-announcement/

 

[ford91exploder]

I understand the attachment that's formed to these kinds of shows. They're great shows, which is why they've lasted as long as they have. It's just that entertainment HAS to be updated and switched out and freshened and changed. It has to, or the parks stagnate. New memories and attachments will be made to the new show, and so on. People will prefer the old one, or they'll prefer the new one, and in 5 years or so, it should be switched out again. It's the cycle of entertainment life.

That said, WDW's inability to change out entertainment has made this worse. Attachments to these old shows are far deeper rooted than they should be, and they will face big backlash for changing them - and that's no one's fault but their own for letting the shows overstay.

I don't think that it's the CHANGE in stage shows, It's that when TDO closes a show the stage is dark for MONTHS and then something new comes along, It's not like Disney is some mom-n-pop production company which cannot afford a backstage 'practice' set. If the show closed Saturday and the new one was up on Tuesday I don't think you would see the tears and complaints.

 

[ford91exploder]

I can easily imagine that's the case.

This was a company that used to issue all-new parades every summer based on that year's big animated motion picture. And they would begin to create this parade a year in advance of when the movie would open in theaters, working just on storyboards and early clips of said movie. Aladdin's Royal Caravan, The Lion King Parade, Hercules Victory Parade, The Mulan Parade, were all issued forth every 12 to 24 months right on top of each other.

A company division like Parks & Resorts with access to a Billion dollars in after-tax profit every 90 days can build a lavish new night parade in a year. If it wants to, of course.

It's not the PLANS that are the issue it's the FUNDING for those plans which the bean counters will never approve. It's like the line in 'The Right Stuff' where the Sacred Seven are discussing funding and this classic line was spoken which is still used widely in the aerospace business.

.... I'll tell you something, and you guys too: No bucks, no Buck Rodgers

It's not that Disney does not have plans for amazing things its that the bean counters refuse to FUND THEM.

 

[wdwfan22]

On top of underdelivering on entertainment at WDW, Fantasmic, Illuminations, Wishes and MSEP are 18, 17, 13 and 44 years old, respectively, with little to no changes since their debuts. Star Wars at DHS is the only new offering, and if ROL ever makes it online, it will be brand new as well. Both offerings are to be commended, but they're not enough.

In what world is it okay for Disney to present a 13 year old fireworks show and a 44 year old light parade as world-class entertainment at what is supposedly the most-attended theme park in the world? Why are Epcot guests treated to the same fireworks show they were in 1999? Why has Fantasmic been left to rot at DHS with no upgrades or updates in 18 years?

Because WDW guests love them. They love their old, rotting nighttime shows. They love their old rotting daytime shows too (looking at you Beauty and the Beast). WDW guests get what they want - the same old creaky entertainment, year in and year out.

Sorry but not all shows require replacing all the time. Wishes and IllumiNations are still world class entertainment offerings. The Main Street Electrical parade and Fantasmic are gems as well. I would like to see them both updated, but replaced no. Disneyland's replacements have not always been stellar either. Disneyland Forever was not as spectacular as Remember Dreams Come True. So change isn't always for the better.