s8film40
Well-Known Member
It's not just sitting there. It's in a hall with all the other flags. It's explained by the cast member taking you in that the hall represents all of the flags that have been a part of the US history.
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OS: Confederate Flag Removed from Epcot
- Thread starter FerretAfros
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Sage of Time
Well-Known Member
AgeEight-E
Active Member
I don't agree at all that it's open-ended. I don't think there's any conclusion one can draw from the flag's presence alongside the rest of the exhibit than that the flag represents those abhorrent ideals. Having it there strengthens its ties to slavery, and shows you why it's not a symbol to be looked up to.
Divorcing that flag from the concept of slavery is what I think is truly offensive, and why there's been a movement to remove it from state grounds in the first place.
Sage of Time
Well-Known Member
I would think that that explanation needs to be couched in something more finely tuned to the impact that the Civil War and its consequences had.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I grew up in the Smithsonian's downtown.
So that's where I come from on what is a museum.
s8film40
Well-Known Member
Well I guess that's where we disagree. I really don't think it needs to be dumbed down to that level I just don't think people are that stupid, a few sure but I don't think we need to model everything to the lowest common denominator. If someone doesn't understand the history of the flag they certainly will in the show they are walking in to as they go through that hall. If they really need help many of the cast members there are very passionate about the history that the American Adventure represents and will be happy to help them understand what the hall of flags represents. If they still can't get it I'm sure they would be happy to point them in the direction of Nemo & friends so they can do something more their pace.
TalkingHead
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know if Six Flags still flies the Confederate flag? Maybe they should rename their company Five Flags.
AgeEight-E
Active Member
I don't think there's any debate on whether or not there are many elements of museums, or museum-like intent, in Disney parks. There most definitely are. Disney wanted to entertain, but he also wanted to teach; he felt it was important and those fingerprints are all over his work.
And once you've decided that you're going to have museum elements somewhere, you have to have both good and bad history included. Cherry-picking the noble and good stuff is dangerous. You have to be careful about tone and presentation, of course, and be respectful and provide plenty of context—especially at a place like Disney where people do go to be entertained—but a sanitized version of history fails on a fundamental level at its purpose.
And once you've decided that you're going to have museum elements somewhere, you have to have both good and bad history included. Cherry-picking the noble and good stuff is dangerous. You have to be careful about tone and presentation, of course, and be respectful and provide plenty of context—especially at a place like Disney where people do go to be entertained—but a sanitized version of history fails on a fundamental level at its purpose.
s8film40
Well-Known Member
Just because I am around theme parks all the time doesn't mean I can't recognize a good themed attraction when I travel abroad. Sure I could be all snooty and say well in Orlando we have WDW and Universal but I don't, I try to look at things outside of comparing them to others and how they stand on their own. I would think being around the smithsonian exhibits would heighten your appreciation of the museum level displays that Disney has. Not everyone gets to go to experience all the great museums of the world, which is why I feel it's even more important that things like this don't start rewriting history as for some this may be their only exposure to this historical lesson.
Sage of Time
Well-Known Member
It's not about being dumbed down. It's about being respectful to people that were effected by the ideology behind that flag.
I said it before, but I'll repeat: I belong to a group of people that would not be treated well by another group of people flying the confederate flag. Seeing the confederate flag in a public setting never sits well with me. It reminds me of a painful and prejudicial past.
I don't go to EPCOT for that sort of experience. I go to museums and memorials for that sort of thing.
Atcually this is false, the emancipation proclamation was designed to give slaves that were in rebel terrorities immediate legal status if they managed to get to Union controlled territories either by union advances or running away. In fact it did not free all slaves.All slave states that stayed in the Union including Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri were not included. This was a war measures act that was as much a solution to a war time problem as it was a political statement. It was not until the 13th amendment was passed that slavery was outlawed in all states
spectromagic04
Well-Known Member
Just saw this on the WGN news in Chicago.
Frankie The Beer
Well-Known Member
I'm from Japan and never associated the Confederate flag with racism as much as I have associated it with the history and building of the United States.
AgeEight-E
Active Member
It shouldn't sit well with you, or with anyone. The Confederate flag sure as hell unsettles me. The reminder of a painful and prejudicial past is the very point. History isn't always about feeling good. I want to be unsettled by this aspect of our past, and I don't want us to ever forget it.
You may not want to see that kind of thing at Disney, but it's there. It's a part of what Disney wanted to achieve with these parks. They have an exhibit about slavery. The Confederate flag belongs with that exhibit, because that's what it should be forever associated with.
s8film40
Well-Known Member
I understand where you are coming from as far as not liking the flag outside of a historical context. That's fine that's your opinion and I respect that. This however is in that historical context. There are a lot of things in the American Adventure that can emotionally affect certain people that's just part of it. Same is true with many historical exhibits.
Sage of Time
Well-Known Member
With THAT exhibit, sure. Where it's carefully explained.
I don't think it was carefully explained just sitting in the Hall of Flags along with other flags with more positive meanings.
Sage of Time
Well-Known Member
Of course. Explain things. That always makes things better. Education is part of EPCOT's message in the first place and it should remain true to that.
s8film40
Well-Known Member
You do understand that you walk through this hall to get to the show right? This hall is a part of the show, it sets up what is about to be told. These are the flags that are a part of the history of the US, now follow us through here to learn more about them.
AgeEight-E
Active Member
The Hall of Flags is the entrance to that exhibit. It's part of it.
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