OS: Confederate Flag Removed from Epcot

[lazyboy97o]

As long as we're going down this road...

How long until Six Flags is forced to change their name? They took their name from the six countries that have ruled Texas, including the Confederacy. Since all the current fervor is tied directly to the flag itself, this seems like an especially contentious name at the moment.

Epcot has always at least had the pretense of being educational and does a pretty good job of treating history with dignity and respect for their background. Six Flags has no such illusions or context, and truly gains nothing out of including the flag in their tally

Six Flags Over Georgia renamed its Confederate section a few years ago.

It was about one right and one right only. In fact, the Confederate Constitution removed some rights from the states, most notably some regarding slavery, but also whether or not states could allow naturalized citizens to vote in federal elections.

By the time of the war slavery was the focus, but your ignoring differences that go back to well before the Revolution.

 

[Matt_Black]

By the time of the war slavery was the focus, but your ignoring differences that go back to well before the Revolution.

There were differences, yes, but the main cause of secession, spelled explicitly in the articles of secession (ESPECIALLY Mississippi's- they didn't beat around the bush at all) was to continue the practice of slavery.

 

[MichWolv]

I find this removal disappointing for many of the reasons others have stated. There is a big difference between a government flying this flag and a private company doing so. And there is a big difference between flying this flag alone (or together with the US flag) at a public site vs displaying it along with many others is a historical display. The Confederacy happened. No matter how horrible it was (or wasn't) and how much the flag is a reminder of terrible things, displaying it in a historical exhibit along with dozens of other flags shouldn't be viewed as anybody "promoting" the Confederacy or anything it fought for -- it's just acknowledging that it happened.

Not a big deal, but I do think an unnecessary decision.

 

[s8film40]

I think Disney is doing a lot of damage for themselves with this. When they were trying to build Disney's America the critics said that a corporation like Disney couldn't be trusted to accurately portray history. Now just because something isn't popular they decide to jump on the bandwagon and remove it from their HISTORY based attraction. Disney has a lot of history based attraction and i've always thought they do a very good job with it. This certainly won't help their credibility in that area though. All politics aside regardless of your view of the flag this is one of the few places it does need to be, it's a key element in the show and it's a story that I think Disney does a good job of educating the public on.

 

[Sage of Time]

I'm fine with it. EPCOT is a museum of sorts, but it's still a theme park. It's not the right place for a conversation on the racism and prejudice associated with the flag.

 

[arko]

As was stated earlier,


Rather a simplistic view of history omitting lots of facts and interjecting a political bias. One in particular was a sovereign country (Texas), so why isn't it flown equally as well as the flags of the indigenous populations ?

Under the Articles of Confederation adopted in 1781, and the United States Constitution, ratified in 1789 . This union was widely understood by both the states and the federal government to be voluntary, and the Constitution was interpreted to reinforce this perspective. At the same time, the founding fathers, particularly Thomas Jefferson, recognized the states' right to secede. This I point out as your pejorative claim of "traitors" is baseless as the states were acting under the agreements as interpreted by the founders.

The current politically correctness (PC) fervor that's the popular rage attempts to silence everyone. There's not as a right to not be offended.

Actuall no by adopting a constitution over the original articles of confederation the notion of secession was removed. In fact anti federalists attempted to added secession language to New York's ratification message and it was rejected and the constitution was ratified without it.
This was confirmed by the Supreme Court in 1869 in Texas v. White. What has been confirmed is the extra constitutional right to revolt, which is what the south did, and that revolt failed.

 

[s8film40]

I'm fine with it. EPCOT is a museum of sorts, but it's still a theme park. It's not the right place for a conversation on the racism and prejudice associated with the flag.

Are you suggesting the American Adventure show should be removed?

 

[ToInfinityAndBeyond]

Let's not cross hairs about States' rights. As a Texas native, I hear so many of my colleagues and peers use the argument of States' rights when discussing the Civil War. The CSA were certainly concerned about rights being delegated to the States, which was an issue the southern States fought and bickered about since the writing of the Constitution (and before).

The main reason the southern delegates wanted stronger State's rights was to continue the practice of slavery, which supported the crop-growing economy.

 

[Matt_Black]

I think Disney is doing a lot of damage for themselves with this. When they were trying to build Disney's America the critics said that a corporation like Disney couldn't be trusted to accurately portray history. Now just because something isn't popular they decide to jump on the bandwagon and remove it from their HISTORY based attraction. Disney has a lot of history based attraction and i've always thought they do a very good job with it. This certainly won't help their credibility in that area though. All politics aside regardless of your view of the flag this is one of the few places it does need to be, it's a key element in the show and it's a story that I think Disney does a good job of educating the public on.

Glenn Beck thinks the Confederate Flag shouldn't be displayed anywhere. When you can't get Glenn Beck on board your states' rights train....

 

[aw14]

There were differences, yes, but the main cause of secession, spelled explicitly in the articles of secession (ESPECIALLY Mississippi's- they didn't beat around the bush at all) was to continue the practice of slavery.

this was the "straw that broke the camels back" so to speak. Obviously an agrarian society with free labor was going to rebel against change, especially when they feel forced to do so.

There are many other aspects that sparked the causes, but I do not believe thats what this discussion was pertaining to

 

[Hakunamatata]

I'm fine with it. EPCOT is a museum of sorts, but it's still a theme park. It's not the right place for a conversation on the racism and prejudice associated with the flag.

Slavery is still practiced in Africa. Should they remove the Outpost from World Showcase?

 

[Matt_Black]

The main reason the southern delegates wanted stronger State's rights was to continue the practice of slavery, which supported the crop-growing economy.

Not just the economy- due to the 3/5 Compromise, the institution gave them a noticeable advantage over the North in the House of Representatives. They wanted to keep that political clout so they could continue to keep slavery legal, to further protect their political clout, etc.

 

[s8film40]

Glenn Beck thinks the Confederate Flag shouldn't be displayed anywhere. When you can't get Glenn Beck on board your states' rights train....

I didn't say anything about states rights, I'm talking about history. Does Glenn Beck think the history of the civil war should be removed? If so he must hate the American Adventure show.

 

[arko]

I think Disney is doing a lot of damage for themselves with this. When they were trying to build Disney's America the critics said that a corporation like Disney couldn't be trusted to accurately portray history. Now just because something isn't popular they decide to jump on the bandwagon and remove it from their HISTORY based attraction. Disney has a lot of history based attraction and i've always thought they do a very good job with it. This certainly won't help their credibility in that area though. All politics aside regardless of your view of the flag this is one of the few places it does need to be, it's a key element in the show and it's a story that I think Disney does a good job of educating the public on.

Had this been an actual historical relic such as an actual preserved battle flag from the civil war, I would agree as it is part of history, but this was a modern flag and given the fact that the Confederate states object was to not be a part of the United States then it has no place in a display of flags meant to represent the flags of places that make up the United States.

 

[Sage of Time]

Are you suggesting the American Adventure show should be removed?

Talk about putting words in my mouth.

A wordless symbol (the flag) carries unspoken meaning. The American Adventure show explains and informs the audience. The latter is perfectly fine. Not explaining why the flag is there and its context could be problematic, hence Disney removing it.

 

[Sage of Time]

Slavery is still practiced in Africa. Should they remove the Outpost from World Showcase?

Yes, please do. And please put an African nation in there that's on the right side of history with a full fledged pavilion exhibiting culture and entertainment.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I think Disney is doing a lot of damage for themselves with this. When they were trying to build Disney's America the critics said that a corporation like Disney couldn't be trusted to accurately portray history. Now just because something isn't popular they decide to jump on the bandwagon and remove it from their HISTORY based attraction. Disney has a lot of history based attraction and i've always thought they do a very good job with it. This certainly won't help their credibility in that area though. All politics aside regardless of your view of the flag this is one of the few places it does need to be, it's a key element in the show and it's a story that I think Disney does a good job of educating the public on.

I don't.

I think that this is one of the first times that people will realize they had it on display.

Besides, society is changing. It's not meant for public display anymore. Museums? Sure. Living History? Sure.

 

[s8film40]

Had this been an actual historical relic such as an actual preserved battle flag from the civil war, I would agree as it is part of history, but this was a modern flag and given the fact that the Confederate states object was to not be a part of the United States then it has no place in a display of flags meant to represent the flags of places that make up the United States.

It's a hall of flags designed to represent the history of the US. I think it's important that the good and bad be represented.

 

[rsoxguy]

I honestly see two sides to this decision.
On one side, I think that the Confederate flag is appropriate to the attraction as a part of American history. Several of the flags displayed within this attraction can be seen with a degree of offense by some people, but such is the case with most things within the sensitivities of our current society. On the other side lies the fact that the Confederate Flag does represent several negative aspects, including the issues of slavery and treason. The fact that it has evolved into a symbol of Southern pride does not negate the core issues of all that this flag represents.

I believe that the history lessons being given here are well thought, but the bottom line remains much simpler. Disney is an entertainment based corporation, and they do that which is expedient toward profitability. If they fear widespread offense regarding any given issue, they act accordingly. Whether right or wrong, their concern revolves around people who pay large sums of money to see or not see the flag.

 

[englanddg]

Had this been an actual historical relic such as an actual preserved battle flag from the civil war, I would agree as it is part of history, but this was a modern flag and given the fact that the Confederate states object was to not be a part of the United States then it has no place in a display of flags meant to represent the flags of places that make up the United States.

So, extending that logic, Mexico wants to be a part of the US?