flavious27
Well-Known Member
What other transportation options would it have to connect to uni?
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Orlando High Speed Rail IS DEFINITE
- Thread starter jt04
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What other transportation options would it have to connect to uni?
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
And if that is the case, there will be years when people generate a negative impression as they are stuck waiting for a train and then waiting for a bus, when a shuttle bus, taxi or rental car would have done the job much faster.
You're supposed to not be closed mined and look to the future when these stations may have other transit options.
No, I think it is more a question of when not if. Google maps are good but I prefer mapquest.
Goodnight. :snore:
flavious27
Well-Known Member
? There will be a bus routes with lynx and i-ride services connecting uni to cc, what other transportation options would orlando build for a 5 mile route?
Why are you assuming Orlando would build them. Could be entirely private funding.
And here is a nice little write-up of why Florida is THE choice. Sorry TP2000 but it confirms the Florida Project's Tampa/Orlando is the most shovel ready of any of the HSR possibilites.
http://www.america2050.org/2011/01/why-and-how-floridas-high-speed-rail-line-must-be-built.html
TimeTrip
Well-Known Member
Was TP2000 debating whether or not it was the most shovel ready?
Yes, something about not having concept work and other preliminary studies etc. No big deal. We have been discussing this for at least a year in multiple threads.
flavious27
Well-Known Member
You think that uni is going to spend the money to build a atleast a 5 mile transportation link between their parks and the convention center using land they have to purchase or lease? The only thing they would do is just buy a couple of extra buses for the i-trolley. The HSR isn't going to bring many people to uni unless there is a station on property.
You have an interesting opinion, I just disagree with it. Uni could use several options to provide transportation from the new station to its property. Just takes some imagineering. Same for Sea World.
PS- Are you positive it will be 5 miles? :veryconfu
flavious27
Well-Known Member
Straight line from 528 and 4 to the garage is about 4.4 miles, for buses it is about 5.
There are many options, but none that I see uni spending money on.
They could have a maglev train that will shuttle guests at 100 - 360 mph, but at about $50 - over $100 million per mile, I doubt they will spend that money unless they can guarantee that it will increase attendance for years to come.
There is the option of light rail but they will need to have a complete circuit, they can not shuttle with the lower speeds of the trains. That will cost about $35 million per mile.
With these options, Uni is going to be the one picking up the cost, not orlando and I doubt Loews. I don't see them spending much on it unless it can bring in more than enough money to cover its construction and maintenance.
I was on the bing map site and it lets you vary the start and stop points. If you start at the plot where the station would go (right next to I-4) and follow I-4 to just south of the parking structures (a likely spot for a transportation terminus) it comes in at less than 4 miles. While I am not expecting a monorail necessarily, I do think an out and back lightrail or a dedicated bus route is quite practical. Sea World could just use covered moving sidewalks.
Gotta go. Football time.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
This gets us back to the whole argument of using very expensive HSR train equipment designed to go at very fast speeds (180+ MPH) over long distances (500+ Miles) as a local tourist-zone shuttle instead. If the purpose is to transport people the 18 miles from the airport to the convention center and on to Lake Buena Vista, then a light-rail system would be far cheaper and provide more frequent (and arguably faster) service than HSR.
There's a newer 22 mile passenger rail line in north San Diego County called Sprinter that uses diesel trains that can go 70+ MPH. It was built for about 20 Million dollars per mile, through very hilly and populated terrain with lots of bridges and protected vehicle crossings involved with the 15 stations. Per mile costs would likely be a bit cheaper in pancake-flat, earthquake-free Orlando with only 3 or 4 stations.
Sprinter Light Rail - North San Diego County
Modern light rail trains are sleek and attractive, as seen above, and interior seating could easily be fitted in a more spacious and plusher tourist setup rather than the higher-density commuter setup.
Since the market for carrying people between Tampa and Orlando quickly and at a profit is dubious at best (no such market currently exists, in fact), it would seem a passenger train from MCO to OCC and WDW should be a 20 Mile tourist system at up to 70 MPH for a fraction of the cost of HSR equipment and engineering. The analogy used earlier seems apt again; that building a 3 Billion dollar HSR system to take people from the airport to Disney World is like building a 3 Billion dollar space shuttle to take housewives to their local supermarket.
The problem is that this isn't so much about the rational, speedy and profitable moving of people on rail between various points, as that would clearly point to using light-rail like Sprinter to move folks from the airport to WDW. The entire HSR thing has now become a political hot potato that is more about ego and tax subsidy and political futures and fortunes than it is about moving folks from Point A to Point B.
But it's going to be fun to watch in 2011!
flavious27
Well-Known Member
I was on the bing map site and it lets you vary the start and stop points. If you start at the plot where the station would go (right next to I-4) and follow I-4 to just south of the parking structures (a likely spot for a transportation terminus) it comes in at less than 4 miles. While I am not expecting a monorail necessarily, I do think an out and back lightrail or a dedicated bus route is quite practical. Sea World could just use covered moving sidewalks.
Gotta go. Football time.
The most likely location of the HSR station is going to be along 528 and a transit stop for a transportation link at uni would be between the two garages. That is where the distance of 4.4 miles from.
And with a train loop, it will be atleast 10 miles with a station at seaworld likely if uni is picking up the cost. I doubt that there would be any other stops because I-4 is the better route to use.
flavious27
Well-Known Member
This gets us back to the whole argument of using very expensive HSR train equipment designed to go at very fast speeds (180+ MPH) over long distances (500+ Miles) as a local tourist-zone shuttle instead. If the purpose is to transport people the 18 miles from the airport to the convention center and on to Lake Buena Vista, then a light-rail system would be far cheaper and provide more frequent (and arguably faster) service than HSR.
There's a newer 22 mile passenger rail line in north San Diego County called Sprinter that uses diesel trains that can go 70+ MPH. It was built for about 20 Million dollars per mile, through very hilly and populated terrain with lots of bridges and protected vehicle crossings involved with the 15 stations. Per mile costs would likely be a bit cheaper in pancake-flat, earthquake-free Orlando with only 3 or 4 stations.
Sprinter Light Rail - North San Diego County
Modern light rail trains are sleek and attractive, as seen above, and interior seating could easily be fitted in a more spacious and plusher tourist setup rather than the higher-density commuter setup.
Since the market for carrying people between Tampa and Orlando quickly and at a profit is dubious at best (no such market currently exists, in fact), it would seem a passenger train from MCO to OCC and WDW should be a 20 Mile tourist system at up to 70 MPH for a fraction of the cost of HSR equipment and engineering. The analogy used earlier seems apt again; that building a 3 Billion dollar HSR system to take people from the airport to Disney World is like building a 3 Billion dollar space shuttle to take housewives to their local supermarket.
The problem is that this isn't so much about the rational, speedy and profitable moving of people on rail between various points, as that would clearly point to using light-rail like Sprinter to move folks from the airport to WDW. The entire HSR thing has now become a political hot potato that is more about ego and tax subsidy and political futures and fortunes than it is about moving folks from Point A to Point B.
But it's going to be fun to watch in 2011!
Exactly, without this line being connected to the rest of the HSR on the east coast and midwest, is it really going to be shuttling that many people from tamp to orlando and miami or vice versa? Florida's HSR needs to be connected to the country, it doesn't seem like those that planned it thought about that.
The sprinter would be a way to connect uni to the cc, but they still would need to pick up the tab for it, orlando isn't going to finance a train line that only serves uni.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
It was actually more about my criticism of the hilariously amateurish website the Florida HSR group had up during 2009 and well into 2010. The old Florida HSR website was like something a 10th grader did on the family room computer in 2002. They finally paid someone to redo it with 2010 technology, and they have a small amount of pie-in-the-sky renderings of vague station concepts up there now. They also got rid of the rad 1980's synthesizer music playing in the background, which is what makes me really mad.
The overused and rather meaningless political phrase "shovel-ready" makes me chuckle, but since the Tampa-Orlando route is on land flatter than one of my slightly lumpy Sunday morning pancakes, and is running down the middle of a very wide freeway, it should be the engineering equivalent of building a small vacation home for European HSR designers. Heck, most of the planned Florida station areas are mostly wide swaths of flat barren land with no known community impacts. It could certainly get going tomorrow if they wanted to.
The Florida HSR website still is rather weak on details and specifics, reflecting a much shorter history of serious planning compared to the California version, but at least it's more polished looking now.
Florida High Speed Rail Website http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org/
California High Speed Rail Authority Website http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Are there even any SeaWorld branded hotels? Who would take high speed rail to SeaWorld? Much cheaper and easier for a family in Tampa to just drive. Tourists at Universal or Disney would be better served by a system intended for such short distances, but of course jt04 will just retort with his hypothetical high speed shuttle.
flavious27
Well-Known Member
It was actually more about my criticism of the hilariously amateurish website the Florida HSR group had up during 2009 and well into 2010. The old Florida HSR website was like something a 10th grader did on the family room computer in 2002. They finally paid someone to redo it with 2010 technology, and they have a small amount of pie-in-the-sky renderings of vague station concepts up there now. They also got rid of the rad 1980's synthesizer music playing in the background, which is what makes me really mad.
The overused and rather meaningless political phrase "shovel-ready" makes me chuckle, but since the Tampa-Orlando route is on land flatter than one of my slightly lumpy Sunday morning pancakes, and is running down the middle of a very wide freeway, it should be the engineering equivalent of building a small vacation home for European HSR designers. Heck, most of the planned Florida station areas are mostly wide swaths of flat barren land with no known community impacts. It could certainly get going tomorrow if they wanted to.
The Florida HSR website still is rather weak on details and specifics, reflecting a much shorter history of serious planning compared to the California version, but at least it's more polished looking now.
Florida High Speed Rail Website http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org/
California High Speed Rail Authority Website http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/
with any government site, mostly they are designed by some lackey until they get real money for studies.
cali's site is nice, but an expensive rail line that parallels a major fault line while crossing a couple others is not the best use of money.
flavious27
Well-Known Member
There are hotels there because of the cc. The same question is asked about being taking the train from philly to ac, yes i know that there is a larger distance covered. People take the train for the convenience of not having to drive and worry about parking.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
But when you are talking $40/person versus $15 for a day of parking at the park or $10/person on a Mears bus, how does the big, fancy, expensive train win? Some people may do it because it's cool, but would they do it repeatedly?
flavious27
Well-Known Member
Only if they have a good experience and no problems.
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