Orlando Gunman Scouted WDW ...

[SorcererMC]

A copy cat seems unlikely but Disney still has not made any changes that would prevent a crime outside any of the parks.

Agreed that there wouldn't be anything further. I think that Disney would be making a big mistake to not make visible efforts (beyond security measures) towards answering the question 'what is Disney doing to keep me and my family safe while on Disney property?' It's a legitimate concern that a lot of people will have now, and I think Disney would be remiss to not address it. People shouldn't be willfully negligent about their own safety either (aka the Disney bubble).

 

[xdan0920]

I shared that the opinion of the reporter was that is that while the checkpoint might have deterred the shooter (there is no evidence either for or against that theory),

I'd argue that since he potentially scouted WDW, and decided not to attack there, is evidence that the security deterred him.

 

[DisneyCane]

I don't think this guy was the first or last terrorist or nut to scout Disney World for an attack. Not being political, with respect to gun control making the country safer, it relies on the assumption that it would keep guns out of the hands of bad guys. You could ban all guns tomorrow and the terrorists, gangs and drug dealers would still manage to have them. No matter what the issue is, we should never make laws just to "do something" because politicians have to "do something" to protect all of us helpless citizens.

Unfortunately, the only way to get somewhere close to guaranteeing the security of Disney World and other targets like malls, restaurants, etc. would be to turn the US into a police state. There would have to be security checks everywhere, roadblocks with random searches and surveillance of everything you do. I don't think many people would want this. As Ben Franklin said, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Extreme measure like that still wouldn't stop somebody from making a bomb out of a pressure cooker like the two idiots in Boston.

Situations like this attack are horrific and sad. They are also shocking and disturbing because of the number of victims that are killed at once. However, to put things into a little perspective, the fatality rate for motor vehicle accidents in the US is over 10 per 100,000 population. This is over twice the homicide rate (which includes all homicide methods). If all the fatal accidents occurred at once, there would be politicians and talking heads discussing all kinds of ideas to protect us.

 

[SorcererMC]

Unfortunately, the only way to get somewhere close to guaranteeing the security of Disney World and other targets like malls, restaurants, etc. would be to turn the US into a police state.

I disagree that the US needs to become a police state nor would I want that (I love my personal freedoms as much as anyone else). I think that there are practical steps that can be taken to counter the threat, that the threat varies over time and place, and that the government, business, and the public all have a role to play in taking those steps.

ETA: Not all targets are created equal, so there has to be public awareness about the nature of terrorism- without fear mongering - about what is being targeted. Just as there is awareness about highway safety, wearing seatbelts, etc. Disney knows that its properties are under threat (it's a global American brand), and they did increase security in January when they had intel about an uptick in threat level (I'm inferring this from the meeting that Spirit said happened in December, then the new metal detectors).

However, to put things into a little perspective, the fatality rate for motor vehicle accidents in the US is over 10 per 100,000 population.

I don't think comparing the statistics of car accidents to terrorist attacks is useful in this context. People rationally know and expect that a loved one may be injured or die in a car accident; they do not expect that a loved one will die or be injured in a terrorist attack (due to its rarity).....it's why recovering from this kind of trauma is difficult, but recovering and being resilient is what the Orlando community and the nation must do.

 

[SorcererMC]

In the interest of being fair, I'm going to post Disney's statement re: security measures that has been in the news articles:

“Unfortunately we’ve all been living in a world of uncertainty, and we have been increasing our security measures
across our properties for some time, adding such visible safeguards as magnetometers, additional canine units, and law
enforcement officers on site, as well as less visible systems that employ state-of-the-art security technologies,” a spokesperson for
Disney said in a statement.
------------------------------------

Disney is addressing it publicly, this statement is probably sufficient for now until further things are done, so I think I'm going to hold off on commenting until more is known.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

And are you suggesting that the media should ignore this angle?

The media coverage on Disney being a potential target has been fair. I think we all get, by now, that you don't. Can we move on?

FBI Shooter Had No Other Targets
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/.../?hootPostID=46da5d26ab5bdf4fb4c5366063cb8ae6
Excerpt from article re: Disney

(FBI Lead Investigator Hopper)
While federal authorities have been reviewing whether the 29-year-old security guard had considered other locations in the area, including Disney World, Ron Hopper, who is managing the broad federal inquiry, said there was no evidence to indicate other possible targets.

@WDW1974 - so now that the FBI has come out with an official statement that there is no evidence to indicate other possible targets, are you still going to claim that the media reporting Disney as a possible target is fair and unbiased reporting, when no other possible targets were listed besides Disney?

So whatever happened to reporters only reporting news, and not making up angles to get more views and clicks? Disney should NEVER have been brought into the news media's reporting until it was proven that he was looking at other potential targets to include Disney. Then, and only then does it become "news". It is click bait to generate views and nothing else and doesn't belong in a balanced and fair news report.

Please explain how that isn't true.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

In the interest of being fair, I'm going to post Disney's statement re: security measures that has been in the news articles:

“Unfortunately we’ve all been living in a world of uncertainty, and we have been increasing our security measures
across our properties for some time, adding such visible safeguards as magnetometers, additional canine units, and law
enforcement officers on site, as well as less visible systems that employ state-of-the-art security technologies,” a spokesperson for
Disney said in a statement.
------------------------------------

Disney is addressing it publicly, this statement is probably sufficient for now until further things are done, so I think I'm going to hold off on commenting until more is known.

And anyone that is saying that Disney should also tell us what the less visible systems are should understand that they have no right or need to know that information. Telling anyone tells everyone, including those that would do harm, and might allow them to circumvent those systems.

 

[Cesar R M]

A copy cat seems unlikely but Disney still has not made any changes that would prevent a crime outside any of the parks.

Well, there were some screenshots of some dudes in facebook/instagram claiming "your work wont be incomplete" and "we stand behind you" floating in tumblr. Of guys showing their support for the shooter.. :/

 

[ford91exploder]

And anyone that is saying that Disney should also tell us what the less visible systems are should understand that they have no right or need to know that information. Telling anyone tells everyone, including those that would do harm, and might allow them to circumvent those systems.

Correct, The best security is invisble and unknown to all but those involved in the program

 

[SorcererMC]

Correct, The best security is invisble and unknown to all but those involved in the program

True but I think that after the news story 'Gunman Scouted WDW' is everywhere without proper updates, that Disney is going to have to work hard at regaining that public trust re: safety. I don't think people will have blind faith.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

True but I think that after the news story 'Gunman Scouted WDW' is everywhere without proper updates, that Disney is going to have to work hard at regaining that public trust re: safety. I don't think people will have blind faith.

And that's been my entire complaint with the news media. Quick to jump on the bandwagon, but slow to correct themselves when they are proven wrong or at least misleading.

 

[SorcererMC]

And that's been my entire complaint with the news media. Quick to jump on the bandwagon, but slow to correct themselves when they are proven wrong or at least misleading.

It really made me think about what you said, b/c the FBI came out so quickly to try and put it to rest, b/c there is potential for hysteria. I can accept that it's an ongoing news story w/ new developments (shooter may have been shopping), but for there not to be corrections? Irresponsible in my book.

 

[The Mom]

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of websites out there where people can argue pro/anti gun control. This isn't one of them. Let's get back to WDW, please.

The same thing I said yesterday.

 

[bhg469]

It really made me think about what you said, b/c the FBI came out so quickly to try and put it to rest, b/c there is potential for hysteria. I can accept that it's an ongoing news story w/ new developments (shooter may have been shopping), but for there not to be corrections? Irresponsible in my book.

If it bleeds it leads.. They dont like to retract things and IMO when they are so quick to report misinformation it just adds fuel to the conspiracy tin foil nut job fire.

 

[ford91exploder]

And that's been my entire complaint with the news media. Quick to jump on the bandwagon, but slow to correct themselves when they are proven wrong or at least misleading.

Unfortunately the US news media is increasingly pushing an agenda They have gotten away from the Three W's - What, When and Where to the 4 W's What, When, Where and most important WHY, For the Florida issue I've ignored the US media and have been following BBC and CBC as my primary sources.

The US media is more and more the media wing of the political parties rather than a 'Hard News' organization reporting impartially on the events of the day.

 

[SMS55]

Don't know if this has been mentioned earlier, but remember that at the beginning of June when he went, was also Gay Days. He may have bene scouting or he may just have been there for the events. Seems like the guy struggled quite a bit with his sexual identity.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Don't know if this has been mentioned earlier, but remember that at the beginning of June when he went, was also Gay Days. He may have bene scouting or he may just have been there for the events. Seems like the guy struggled quite a bit with his sexual identity.

Was he struggling? It's hard to understand right now with all the different stories coming out. He could have just been casing and looking for targets, figuring out his attack strategy.

 

[TeriofTerror]

PSA: As a side note, I finally made an appointment to donate blood (been out of town all week). Even if you don't live in Orlando, blood bank reserves nationwide could use your support. Donating blood saves lives!

 

[MrHappy]

A comment was made earlier about Disney and the FBI being "cozy". In other threads there's the idea that Disney employees cheap security just for theater. Which is it? Can I go on the belief that there's more than meets the eye at WDW for security other than those bag checking at the gates?

 

[bsiev1977]

Now there's news that weeks ago the shooter tried to buy 1000 rounds of ammo and body armor at a store. They refused him and contacted the FBI, and it seems like the FBI did nothing.

Heads should roll at the FBI. A guy who's already been investigated twice tries to make a suspicious weapons purchase, and they don't feel the need to check him again?