Opinion: Toy Story Land's grand opening will be a disaster

[Damon7777]

7DMT will continue to have long wait times for years on end.

Really??
McDonalds over I billion served. I guess under your own rationale McDonalds must be some high end eating since so many continue to queue for it

 

[DisneyDoctor]

Um, no, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

Let's try to reword the point. In general, kids have no concept of what Disney world is until they go for the first time. Especially those that go at toddler ages. Adults can influence how kids see epcot by how they choose to introduce it to them. Go to any of the other 3 parks first, epcot will likely be found boring. Go to epcot first, and you might be surprised how much kids do enjoy it as an edutainment experience. It's not Disney's job to fix what adults do or don't do, but that doesn't mean they *have* to limit what is available to experience either. Epcot attendance numbers are still above the other 2 "ride" parks, last I checked.

Of course, much of the education aspect has been ripped out at this point and epcot is just a shell with no real purpose either way right now. so, yes, it needs direction moving forward. I just believe that Disney doesn't have to toss aside the concept of edutainment. That's what sets epcot apart from MK. If anyone can do edutainment well, both from a fun standpoint and an education standpoint, Disney can. When they care enough to do so.

Reread the question. No words were "put in your mouth," a simple question was asked. Hopefully you teach math or science, and not english.

I agree that Epcot is a shell with no real purpose right now, but Disney has made it very clear that they are reimagining that purpose and filling Epcot with new attractions to DRAW CROWDS IN. This is the whole point of a vacation, right? Why would any vacation destination build attractions and experiences that don't maximize potential?

Look at Universal's crowd levels. Are they building educational attractions?

 

[DisneyDoctor]

Really??
McDonalds over I billion served. I guess under your own rationale McDonalds must be some high end eating since so many continue to queue for it

What about the newest high-end restaurant that has huge waiting times for a table? Same rationale, Damon.

 

[Disone]

Neither sarcasm nor hyperbole but straight up undeniable fact.

There are Yoda's and Wookies in Dinoland USA........for sale of course. That is just a tiny example of modern day Disney being abysmal compared to the older days......thematic incongruence.

Merchandise crossover? You are grasping at straws. No normal guest is leaving DAK thinking about the Starwars offerings that they experienced at DAK that day.

There's that pesky thing about the modern day Disney overt thematic incongruence showing up again

I didn't realize that was a thing. I will have to agree to disagree with you here. But....

Serious and real question:
If you went for a more authentic Chinese food(correct, I'm not talking Panad Express here) and the staff were native Colombian or from Sudan would you find that restaurant credible? I would not at face value, even though there is a chance that it could pump out some damn tasty offerings.
Goes to credibility/believability

You didn't read my entire post? If the entire WS pavillion was staffed with no natives, or even if the majority of the WS Pavillion was staffed with non natives, it may lose some of its authenticity feel for me. However a few.... absolutely not. Diversity is good. And remember, just because they look non-native does not mean they are.

Really??
McDonalds over I billion served. I guess under your own rationale McDonalds must be some high end eating since so many continue to queue for it

Not the same. Your comparing Apples to Bricks here, sure both can be red, but that is not why people use Bricks.

 

[Angel Ariel]

From the tone you've taken, your question came across as more rhetorical/sarcastic in nature, not one actually looking for a sincere response. My apologies if I mistook your tone.

I agree that Epcot is a shell with no real purpose right now, but Disney has made it very clear that they are reimagining that purpose and filling Epcot with new attractions to DRAW CROWDS IN. This is the whole point of a vacation, right? Why would any vacation destination build attractions and experiences that don't maximize potential?

Look at Universal's crowd levels. Are they building educational attractions?

Based on your response, you seem to have a view that an attraction is either educational, or it's fun. IMO, Disney is fully capable of delivering both in an attraction. I don't think it has to be the either/or that you seem to think it is.

I agree Epcot needs revitalization and new attractions, I just don't think they are required to abandon what made Epcot stand out in order to do so. Epcot still has just under 2 million more in attendance compared to either US Universal park. I don't think they need to do what Universal does to be successful.

 

[Goofyernmost]

7DMT will continue to have long wait times for years on end.

No broad assumptions about children and what excites them, either. When given the choice between going to an amusement park or a museum, the majority of children will choose the amusement park. Education and curiosity aren't as valued today as they once were. Do you see kids in the Norway pavilion reading about the rich Scandinavian culture, or screaming over Elsa and Anna?

Actually having gone to school in the 50's and 60's, I can assure you that children were never feeling their hearts go at rapid speed when thinking about education. What draw, which at the time was extensive, Epcot had was because it taught without kids knowing that they were being taught. Edutainment was the name for it. No kid ever, other then a very few, ever thought that a fun thing to do during a vacation was to attend classes. But, it could not keep up with technology, because technology was moving at warp speed. After a brief time, all the technology that was found in Epcot was also on the desk in their bedrooms on a funky little machine called a computer.

When Epcot opened there were very few personal computers. Kids now get an amazing part of their enlightenment on the internet. A theme park dedicated to "teaching and learning" is no longer needed. Old people like myself fondly remember those times and wish it still existed, but, only because it is nostalgia for us and been there, done that, for the youth of our current times. Besides, even at it's best Epcot was never able to display a future technology that didn't already exist. And due to the speed of innovation could not get a show built before that technology was obsolete.

 

[DisneyDoctor]

From the tone you've taken, your question came across as more rhetorical/sarcastic in nature, not one actually looking for a sincere response. My apologies if I mistook your tone.



Based on your response, you seem to have a view that an attraction is either educational, or it's fun. IMO, Disney is fully capable of delivering both in an attraction. I don't think it has to be the either/or that you seem to think it is.

I agree Epcot needs revitalization and new attractions, I just don't think they are required to abandon what made Epcot stand out in order to do so. Epcot still has just under 2 million more in attendance compared to either US Universal park. I don't think they need to do what Universal does to be successful.

I have to wonder what currently draws people to Epcot then. Is it Test Track and Soarin? Can't forget about World Showcase either.

I would love to see more educational attractions and experiences in Epcot. Learning fascinates me and I wish it fascinated every kid. But, I just don't think Disney cares too much about the minority point of view. Do I agree with their point of view? Not by any means. But, I definitely understand it.

 

[DisneyDoctor]

Actually having gone to school in the 50's and 60's, I can assure you that children were never feeling their hearts go at rapid speed when thinking about education. What draw, which at the time was extensive, Epcot had was because it taught without kids knowing that they were being taught. Edutainment was the name for it. No kid ever, other then a very few, ever thought that a fun thing to do during a vacation was to attend classes. But, it could not keep up with technology, because technology was moving at warp speed. After a brief time, all the technology that was found in Epcot was also on the desk in their bedrooms on a funky little machine called a computer.

When Epcot opened there were very few personal computers. Kids now get an amazing part of their enlightenment on the internet. A theme park dedicated to "teaching and learning" is no longer needed. Old people like myself fondly remember those times and wish it still existed, but, only because it is nostalgia for us and been there, done that, for the youth of our current times. Besides, even at it's best Epcot was never able to display a future technology that didn't already exist. And due to the speed of innovation could not get a show built before that technology was obsolete.

That's a good point, and I appreciate you sharing.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I have to wonder what currently draws people to Epcot then. Is it Test Track and Soarin? Can't forget about World Showcase either.

I would love to see more educational attractions and experiences in Epcot. Learning fascinates me and I wish it fascinated every kid. But, I just don't think Disney cares too much about the minority point of view. Do I agree with their point of view? Not by any means. But, I definitely understand it.

Test track and soarin are fun, but they aren't the main draw for me. I love world showcase...the performances around the world have always been top notch. My daughter is 6. she loves watching live performers. Music, dancing, acting...it captures her attention like nothing else (and I don't say that lightly, because her attention span is generally a very big issue for her).

As goofyernmost pointed out..the whole idea was to be learning something *without knowing you were "learning."* Kids are sponges. They naturally want to soak up what's around them. I disagree that the Internet fills that need now, as all kids learn differently. Some may learn from the internet, others learn from more hands on approaches..think like the kiwi crate boxes that are hugely popular. Hands on, interactive, STEAM based learning is a pretty big trend right now. And kids don't see it as learning so much as they see it as fun. They just happen to also be learning at the same time. Adults tend to forget that so much of learning IS play for kids. Even up into elementary ages.

 

[DisneyDoctor]

Test track and soarin are fun, but they aren't the main draw for me. I love world showcase...the performances around the world have always been top notch. My daughter is 6. she loves watching live performers. Music, dancing, acting...it captures her attention like nothing else (and I don't say that lightly, because her attention span is generally a very big issue for her).

As goofyernmost pointed out..the whole idea was to be learning something *without knowing you were "learning."* Kids are sponges. They naturally want to soak up what's around them. I disagree that the Internet fills that need now, as all kids learn differently. Some may learn from the internet, others learn from more hands on approaches..think like the kiwi crate boxes that are hugely popular. Hands on, interactive, STEAM based learning is a pretty big trend right now. And kids don't see it as learning so much as they see it as fun. They just happen to also be learning at the same time. Adults tend to forget that so much of learning IS play for kids. Even up into elementary ages.

I hope to one day have children who are more like the children in your life. Most of the kids I've recently interacted with despise learning and obsess over more... superficial things.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I hope to one day have children who are more like the children in your life. Most of the kids I've recently interacted with despise learning and obsess over more... superficial things.

Like I said..kids are sponges. They soak up what's around them. Both positive and negative. We, as adults, really influence what that environment is..or isn't. In Sondheim's words:

"Careful the things you say
Children will listen
Careful the things you do
Children will see and learn
Children may not obey, but children will listen
Children will look to you for which way to turn"

 

[MrConbon]

What kid wouldn't enjoy an aquarium? Also, big surprise, they enjoyed playing the video games after spaceship earth. What do they do in WS? Do they enjoy the rich cultural offerings and read about the different countries?

I think your nephews are likely the exception, not the rule. I appreciate the anecdotal stories, but it doesn't change the fact that kids are more interested in rides.

The Epcot of the 80’s isn’t substantial today. Technology moves at a rapid pace these days and with the internet you can see those things from the comfort of your home. Epcot was failing because they focused too much on the educational aspect and not enough on being a theme park destination.

 

[TwilightZone]

It's the question of whether you want educational epcot which will keep it how it is now with some of the worst attractions, boring attractions, and blank spaces everywhere, or if you want epcot to grow out of it's educational aspect to keep it entertaining.
I'm all for option 2.

 

[Angel Ariel]

It's the question of whether you want educational epcot which will keep it how it is now with some of the worst attractions, boring attractions, and blank spaces everywhere, or if you want epcot to grow out of it's educational aspect to keep it entertaining.
I'm all for option 2.

again bringing it down to an either/or. while I will agree that's certainly how Disney *has* been acting, I just disagree that it has to be that way. Of course I want Epcot to be better than it is now.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I have to wonder what currently draws people to Epcot then. Is it Test Track and Soarin? Can't forget about World Showcase either.

I would love to see more educational attractions and experiences in Epcot. Learning fascinates me and I wish it fascinated every kid. But, I just don't think Disney cares too much about the minority point of view. Do I agree with their point of view? Not by any means. But, I definitely understand it.

Epcot is still an interesting place to be. No, it's not done with the serious dedication that it was originally, but, I still find it fun and spend at least two days there. I no longer stay for Illuminations because after all these years, it's, well, it's boring for me. I like all the attractions, new and old, except the Imagination which should be put out of it's misery, but, at least it is something to do at this point. Even with the changes I still enjoy it to a smaller degree then before.

I am not afraid to say that after seeing all those omni-mover almost identical rides, they got to be declining in holding my interest. UoE was much improved with the addition of Ellen. Still educational, but, with some humor to stave off the mind numbing dryness of the original presentation. Horizons was good, but, to me, never had the staying power. Once seen it didn't take to many repeat visits to make it something that was less then exciting. Wonders of Life was OK, but, the only thing worth doing was Body Wars and Cranium Command. World of Motion is the one that I miss the most. That was a fun and humorous trip in a unique pavilion winding it's way through the history of transportation. On that side of Future World. UoE is gone forever now and I'm unsure about what the Guardians will be like. I still haven't gotten tired of riding Mission: Space. WoL is currently, allegedly in the process of a redo. Test Track, is OK, but, to me is not worth riding every time I go there, but, there is always a line so what do I know.

The Seas is essentially the same, with the addition of a few cartoon fish, but, the loss of the Hydrolators are a loss to everyone visiting it. It made the story and was one of the most memorable parts of the pavilion. At this point the only thing missing from The Land is the movie and Kitchen Kabaret, however, the addition of Soarin more then made up for those two. Imagination isn't even pleasant to think about. At one point it was one of the most dynamic and fun pavilions in Epcot. The original Journey into Imagination was a very inspirational ride with a song that you would be humming the rest of the day. Now there is a watered down ride, no 3D movie and a sad Image Works that used to cover two floors and is just one now. Apparently the Imagineers at this point should be renamed Iain'tgotnoimaginationeers. They cannot think of anything worth putting in there that the management is willing to spend money on.

Spaceship Earth is not a huge leap away from the original. The base of the message in the ride has not really changed, just a few scenes. World Showcase is almost completely identical to what it was when it opened except that Norway now houses Frozen as a ride instead of one of the most put you to sleep shows depicting the excited things to see in Norway like a polar bear, some oil wells, trolls and a travel movie that had more people leaving Norway then going there.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Like I said..kids are sponges. They soak up what's around them. Both positive and negative. We, as adults, really influence what that environment is..or isn't. In Sondheim's words:

"Careful the things you say
Children will listen
Careful the things you do
Children will see and learn
Children may not obey, but children will listen
Children will look to you for which way to turn"

Yes, but, if it is obvious like... it's now time for a lesson in energy, their eyes will glaze over, their minds will switch off and the only way you will know they are even awake is because they will be squirming in their seats. Put it in computer form and watch them come to life, or if you do not want them to hear anything and all of a sudden they can hear a pin drop on Jupiter.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Yes, but, if it is obvious like... it's now time for a lesson in energy, their eyes will glaze over, their minds will switch off and the only way you will know they are even awake is because they will be squirming in their seats. Put it in computer form and watch them come to life, or if you do not want them to hear anything and all of a sudden they can hear a pin drop on Jupiter.

As I agreed with earlier...I'm not advocating for lecturing to them I do disagree, though, that computers are the only way to draw them in. Hands on, interactive play is still very engaging. Computers are definitely a part of that, but not the only part.

 

[Goofyernmost]

As I agreed with earlier...I'm not advocating for lecturing to them I do disagree, though, that computers are the only way to draw them in. Hands on, interactive play is still very engaging. Computers are definitely a part of that, but not the only part.

True, and I didn't mean to imply it wasn't, but, we are talking about a theme park and the number of people that will be positively affected. Also remember that kids go to these parks with parents or guardians. If the P & G's don't want to sit through that stuff, the kids will not be seeing it either. Parks, especially Disney parks do not exist on wishes and dreams, they need people. That is what happened to Epcot.. it lost people. They had to put in things like the Drink, Eat and Puke events to bring people in, and that was mostly grown-ups. It was a wonderful idea that technology stopped from making it very far into the 21st Century.

 

[Angel Ariel]

True, and I didn't mean to imply it wasn't, but, we are talking about a theme park and the number of people that will be positively affected. Also remember that kids go to these parks with parents or guardians. If the P & G's don't want to sit through that stuff, the kids will not be seeing it either. Parks, especially Disney parks do not exist on wishes and dreams, they need people. That is what happened to Epcot.. it lost people. They had to put in things like the Drink, Eat and Puke events to bring people in, and that was mostly grown-ups. It was a wonderful idea that technology stopped from making it very far into the 21st Century.

I agree that it needs to be fun for all...parents, adults and kids. I think Disney is fully capable of making attractions that are fun (while also educational..as you mentioned, edutainment, where you don't realize it happening). Whether they will choose to put forth the effort is something else entirely, but they are capable of it. and it doesn't have to be a focus on new technology alone to do so.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I agree that it needs to be fun for all...parents, adults and kids. I think Disney is fully capable of making attractions that are fun (while also educational..as you mentioned, edutainment, where you don't realize it happening). Whether they will choose to put forth the effort is something else entirely, but they are capable of it. and it doesn't have to be a focus on new technology alone to do so.

They actually still do... Mission Space, teaches you a little about space travel and what it would feel like to be an astronaut. Test Track teaches you about cars, aerodynamics and computer operated vehicles. Seas teaches about real sea life as well as Nemo (they sneak that right in without anyone noticing) That land still teaches about the land and healthy eating and even Soarin teaches by observation about other lands and cultures that are all part of the land. Imagination has a limited curriculum now but still does delve into how the imagination works and what it can achieve. And of course, Spaceship Earth as never stopped teaching about communication and now even modern interactive communication. Not sure what Guardians are going to hit us with, but, we will find out. The World showcase still teaches about the cultures and people of other places in the world. We also tend to forget that American Adventure teaches people from other countries about what used to be American ideals. A little shaky at the moment, but, everything cycles around eventually.