Opinion: Toy Story Land's grand opening will be a disaster

dieboy

Active Member
I suppose my ignorance is bliss then.

I'd simply ignore it. Times change. Some people cannot get over that. They are typically people with a house full of what they consider 'relics of a better time', which most normal people look at as junk. I loved WdW when i was a young teen, all the way through present day (don't care to disclose age). I for one, welcome a new time, new generation, and the changes they bring. Hint, i'm actually not that old, but feel like it sometimes.
 

geekza

Well-Known Member
They are typically people with a house full of what they consider 'relics of a better time', which most normal people look at as junk.
"Normal people?" I hate to break it to you, but you're spending time discussing a theme park on the Internet. Best not to throw stones in a glass house.
Hint, i'm actually not that old,
The deuce, you say! I couldn't tell!

I'm really not trying to insult you. I'm just issuing fair warning that one day you'll wake up and find that suddenly people who are younger than you have begun to devalue your opinions and experiences as the ramblings of an old person. You'll get used to it, but you'll never like it.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
"Normal people?" I hate to break it to you, but you're spending time discussing a theme park on the Internet. Best not to throw stones in a glass house.

The deuce, you say! I couldn't tell!

I'm really not trying to insult you. I'm just issuing fair warning that one day you'll wake up and find that suddenly people who are younger than you have begun to devalue your opinions and experiences as the ramblings of an old person. You'll get used to it, but you'll never like it.
Actually, the older I get the less I give a crap about whether or not anyone values my opinions. It's their loss as they will learn soon enough. How's that for a ramble. I also don't care if people know how old I am... so in just over 2 months I will be 70 if I am not murdered at the hands of a jealous husband before then.
 

dieboy

Active Member
Ha Geekza, touche about normal people. In retrospect, you have a point. In all honestly, I just come here to occasionally lend a hand to someone asking a question I actually know something about (which isn't much, but sometimes i can shine). I do enjoy the trip reports, as it reminds me of when i was young(er).

I've been going down to wdw, for approx thirty five years, annually, or twice a year sometimes. I've been okay with the changes. The sole change I hate, is how crowded it gets now days. There's my old timer gripe ;) 'back in my day, when we went the parks, the longest wait for a ride was about twenty minutes'

I'm actually totally okay with getting older and not getting listened to, or people not heeding my warnings or knowledge of life lessons learned. When I was younger, I did the same thing .. now that I am older, I wish I hadn't, but i accept that as part of life in general.

Totally don't take it as an insult, to each their own. There are about a few billion people on this planet, and each and every one has a different perspective.

There will always be a good amount of people who liked the 'good ol days' and also a good amount of people that like it as it is. I really don't expect each group to ever see eye to eye, but a nice medium would be good :)
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
That's how C and D Ticket rides work. They're not meant to be headliners, they're meant to be fillers. WDW added fillers and you're dinging them for not being headliners.

It's like dinging a hamburger for being an awful steak.
Usually lands are comprised of at least one headlining attraction and built out with a mix of smaller attractions. It's a relatively new and unusual circumstance for a land to open without a ride that acts as an anchor to both the land and the park.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Usually lands are comprised of at least one headlining attraction and built out with a mix of smaller attractions. It's a relatively new and unusual circumstance for a land to open without a ride that acts as an anchor to both the land and the park.

TSM is a solid D (arguably an E) is the headliner. SDD could also be called a D. The land isn't three carny rides. A year an a half later, a new land with 2 Es and no filler rides is opening. Along with another E in the park.

Seriously, folks, if TSL opened the same time as SWL and MMRR no one would be dinging it for the lack of a new E.

Also, tired of the moving goal post here:

TSL only has 2 rides, no new land has only 2 rides!
It has 3, you're forgetting, TSM.
But that's always been there, it doesn't count. New lands get lots of new rides!
No, here's a list of all the new lands in the past decade, they don't all get 3 or more new rides. And many incorporate existing rides into the new lands.
It doesn't have a headliner! All new lands have headliners and lesser rides!
SWL will be just headliners with no lesser rides.
And it goes on and on with new rules made up in order to set a bar that TSL then fails to meet. And it's quite ridiculous when the rules don't even fit the supposed history and precedents set in the past decade for new lands.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
TSM is a solid D (arguably an E) is the headliner. SDD could also be called a D. The land isn't three carny rides. A year an a half later, a new land with 2 Es and no filler rides is opening. Along with another E in the park.

Seriously, folks, if TSL opened the same time as SWL and MMRR no one would be dinging it for the lack of a new E.

Also, tired of the moving goal post here:

TSL only has 2 rides, no new land has only 2 rides!
It has 3, you're forgetting, TSM.
But that's always been there, it doesn't count. New lands get lots of new rides!
No, here's a list of all the new lands in the past decade, they don't all get 3 or more new rides. And many incorporate existing rides into the new lands.
It doesn't have a headliner! All new lands have headliners and lesser rides!
SWL will be just headliners with no lesser rides.
And it goes on and on with new rules made up in order to set a bar that TSL then fails to meet. And it's quite ridiculous when the rules don't even fit the supposed history and precedents set in the past decade for new lands.
Oh I'm not saying it's a problem, it's a potentially interesting evolution in the distribution of a Disney park's attractions. It's unusual to have a park's attractions distributed in such a way, usually the A-E tickets are more readily intermingled than DHS will have in it's coming lineup. It remains to be seen how that will influence guest satisfaction, but it's an interesting case study, and different enough that I can see why it might throw people off. It differs from traditional attraction arrangement patterns. Not something most guests will actively notice, but I wonder if they will subliminally. It seemed to have that effect on Toontown, where it was popular for guests to regard it as a "lesser-land" than the others in the Magic Kingdom.

RE: Your later points, I think the sentiment tends to be that TSL is only opening two rides, not that it only has two. I think it's fair to imagine there will be guests who look towards Toy Story Mania and say "wait, hasn't this one been here for a while?" It is relatively rare for an attraction to switch lands, though it does happen, so it's reasonable that there may be some confusion there too.

I also don't think the complaint is that "all lands have headliners" as much as it is that guests want it to have one. That goes back to the what I was saying earlier, it's understood by guests (subliminally or otherwise) that most lands have at least one clear headliner for the land and park. In this case the ride that is being touted as the anchor has been open for 10 years and was designed by it's creators to be a D-Ticket for the park. I think it's fair that some feel that diminishes the impact of the highly-promoted new land, that we've already become accustomed to the presence of the "best part" of it.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
I'm a guest and I have never once considered if a land had a so-called headliner, or not. Frankly, I never really consider the lands themselves when planning what to do or for FP+. When I make plans with the family, we just discuss what rides/shows we want to enjoy, with no mention of what "land" they happen to live in. Now, I will admit that for our next trip we want to spend time admiring the landscape of Pandora, just because of how different it is supposed to be. But, we did not do that for the new Fantasy Land.
That's fine, I won't pretend it's something that many guests actively think about. But it used to be that each land was designed with a "weinie", something that drew you in with Liz Lemon-like "I want to go to there" intensity. It hasn't necessarily been that way for every land for a little while, but I think it's something some guests do still expect from Disney given that the mainstay lands tend to follow this premise, even if they don't expect it outwardly. Some of us here do think about it consciously by the nature of our fanboyism, but the onus isn't and shouldn't be on the guests to consider it, it was only ever meant to be something they felt. Something that drew you into a place and then rewarded you for spending your time there.

It sounds like in the case of Toy Story Land the greatest reward being offered is a D-Ticket attraction guests have been riding for 10 years. That's an option! But doesn't exactly inspire effusive praise.
 

justintheharris

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
TSM is a solid D (arguably an E) is the headliner. SDD could also be called a D. The land isn't three carny rides. A year an a half later, a new land with 2 Es and no filler rides is opening. Along with another E in the park.

Seriously, folks, if TSL opened the same time as SWL and MMRR no one would be dinging it for the lack of a new E.

Also, tired of the moving goal post here:

TSL only has 2 rides, no new land has only 2 rides!
It has 3, you're forgetting, TSM.
But that's always been there, it doesn't count. New lands get lots of new rides!
No, here's a list of all the new lands in the past decade, they don't all get 3 or more new rides. And many incorporate existing rides into the new lands.
It doesn't have a headliner! All new lands have headliners and lesser rides!
SWL will be just headliners with no lesser rides.
And it goes on and on with new rules made up in order to set a bar that TSL then fails to meet. And it's quite ridiculous when the rules don't even fit the supposed history and precedents set in the past decade for new lands.

The reason I would be more forgiving about the lack of an E ticket ride (Even though I consider Toy Story Midway Mania to be an E ticket attraction) if it was opening with Runaway Railway or Star Wars Galaxy's Edge would be that Disney likely would not be selling Toy Story Land as if it DOES contain such rides. Publicity is my overall problem with the land. It is being sold as if the headlining attraction is brand new. It's not. It's being sold as if it's going to be as grandiose as Pandora. While opening day is still over a month away, I think I feel comfortable saying it will not be as good as Pandora. Toy Story land seems like its sole purpose is capacity... like Dinoland USA was for Animal Kingdom in the early 2000s.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry guys remind me again what is the ABCD thing with rides?
Is a E ride good or bad?

Do you think Joe regular visitor knows what the letter designation means? I mean if I'm in the park and you say to me slinky dog is a "E" attraction will that influence my enjoyment of the ride?
 

justintheharris

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I'm sorry guys remind me again what is the ABCD thing with rides?
Is a E ride good or bad?

Do you think Joe regular visitor knows what the letter designation means? I mean if I'm in the park and you say to me slinky dog is a "E" attraction will that influence my enjoyment of the ride?

In the old days at Disneyland and Disney World, you bought tickets designated ABCDE. So it was more of a system in which you paid more money to ride more rides rather than just a blanket admission fee. E ticket was the most expensive and for the most desired attractions such as Pirates of the Caribbean and Haunted Mansion. Peter Pan's Flight was like a C ticket. I recall that when Pandora was under construction, Flight of Passage was described as an E ticket ride in which you fly on the back of a Banshee.

Does the average Joe visiting know this? Eh possibly? The term "E ticket attraction" is used throughout the theme park industry. If you type E ticket into Google, there's a Wikipedia regarding it.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
In the old days at Disneyland and Disney World, you bought tickets designated ABCDE. So it was more of a system in which you paid more money to ride more rides rather than just a blanket admission fee. E ticket was the most expensive and for the most desired attractions such as Pirates of the Caribbean and Haunted Mansion. Peter Pan's Flight was like a C ticket. I recall that when Pandora was under construction, Flight of Passage was described as an E ticket ride in which you fly on the back of a Banshee.

Does the average Joe visiting know this? Eh possibly? The term "E ticket attraction" is used throughout the theme park industry. If you type E ticket into Google, there's a Wikipedia regarding it.
"E-Ticket" as a term has made some entries into popular culture as well, such was the nature of its presence in the parks - Sally Ride famously described her experience of the Space Shuttle launch as "a real E-Ticket", and people knew what that meant.

The general population is less aware of the intricacies of the system or the various letter grades, but "E-Ticket" can sometimes still mean something to "regular" people when they hear it. It's prevalence is presumably shrinking since the functioning ticket system has been disused for over 30 years, but it is a more than just a relic. And certainly within the industry it's a useful indicator of the ambition of an attraction's design.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
"E-Ticket" as a term has made some entries into popular culture as well, such was the nature of its presence in the parks - Sally Ride famously described her experience of the Space Shuttle launch as "a real E-Ticket", and people knew what that meant.

The general population is less aware of the intricacies of the system or the various letter grades, but "E-Ticket" can sometimes still mean something to "regular" people when they hear it. It's prevalence is presumably shrinking since the functioning ticket system has been disused for over 30 years, but it is a more than just a relic. And certainly within the industry it's a useful indicator of the ambition of an attraction's design.
Some did, many didn't. Some do, many don't. Do you guys really think that people lives revolve around Disney especially any of them that were born in the late 70's and that is getting to be a larger and larger number. Not your friends because they are probably Disney people as well, but, ask random people if they know what an E ticket is and please don't be hurt if they look at you like you have three heads. Sally Ride was a long time ago... two generations at least. The general Disney Fan (more then just park visits) do know what E means, but, that number is comparatively small.
 

geekza

Well-Known Member
Ha Geekza, touche about normal people. In retrospect, you have a point. In all honestly, I just come here to occasionally lend a hand to someone asking a question I actually know something about (which isn't much, but sometimes i can shine). I do enjoy the trip reports, as it reminds me of when i was young(er).

I've been going down to wdw, for approx thirty five years, annually, or twice a year sometimes. I've been okay with the changes. The sole change I hate, is how crowded it gets now days. There's my old timer gripe ;) 'back in my day, when we went the parks, the longest wait for a ride was about twenty minutes'

I'm actually totally okay with getting older and not getting listened to, or people not heeding my warnings or knowledge of life lessons learned. When I was younger, I did the same thing .. now that I am older, I wish I hadn't, but i accept that as part of life in general.

Totally don't take it as an insult, to each their own. There are about a few billion people on this planet, and each and every one has a different perspective.

There will always be a good amount of people who liked the 'good ol days' and also a good amount of people that like it as it is. I really don't expect each group to ever see eye to eye, but a nice medium would be good :)
Well said, my friend. :)
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
Some did, many didn't. Some do, many don't. Do you guys really think that people lives revolve around Disney especially any of them that were born in the late 70's and that is getting to be a larger and larger number. Not your friends because they are probably Disney people as well, but, ask random people if they know what an E ticket is and please don't be hurt if they look at you like you have three heads. Sally Ride was a long time ago... two generations at least. The general Disney Fan (more then just park visits) do know what E means, but, that number is comparatively small.
Thank you for reinforcing the exact point I made in my post -- there are still people who know, but the number is probably shrinking.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
They do fit 4 people
I think their point is that the arrangement of the carts into long trains was not appealing to them.

It does appear that in the movie they only ever show one cart at a time, they're never connected into a train -- but I think it's an understandable compromise for the reality of ride capacity that they linked them together.
 

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