Opinion: Toy Story Land's grand opening will be a disaster

[eliza61nyc]

I think that those of you who are of the opinion that folks who defend Disney of the past are just old fogies and need to get with the times misunderstand why the majority of us feel the way we do. It has very little to do with individual attractions and more to do with the effort and creativity that went into attractions in the past that, in many cases, is absent from a lot (not all) of modern attractions.

Of course not all of the attractions from the "glory days" of DL or WDW were instant classics that should have never been improved or removed. Disneyland was in an almost constant state of flux while Walt was alive. You don't hear too many people pining for the return of the Conestoga Wagons or mule rides. The Flying Saucers in DL were terrible, by all accounts.

All I want is for modern Disney to create attractions with the idea of saying, "There may be a similar ride mechanism elsewhere, but we're Disney and we're going to do something with it to make the experience unlike anything else." Make experiences that are worth spending thousands of dollars and travelling from other parts of the world to enjoy.

Am I upset that the original mission of Epcot is being abandoned in the name of adding more thrill rides and incongruous IP? Absolutely. I'm well aware that time travel hasn't been invented yet and so it isn't possible for those of you who weren't able to visit EPCOT Center in it's heyday to have a frame of reference, but it's not fair to dismiss the opinions of those of us who were able to experience it simply because you enjoy today's WDW. I'm glad you enjoy it. I've never had a bad time at Disney. All I can do is offer my informed opinion comparing today's parks with yesterday's. After my upcoming trip, I will have visited WDW once in each decade of its operation (twice in the 80's). There were several years between each visit, so the changes stood out to me. Many were for the better, some detracted from what had come before.

I can't speak for everyone, but all I want is for Disney to always strive to be the best that it can be, because I've seen what is possible when they're firing on all cylinders and it's marvelous. Right now, I don't think they are. It doesn't mean that they won't ever again.

So let me say I am absolutely not dismissing your opinion and I wholeheartedly apologize if anything I say comes across, Disney is my happy place so I enjoy hearing about it.

Let me explain it another way.
I grew up in Manhattan during what I call the "golden" age of Department stores. shopping was not the horrible experience it is today. We had huge gorgeous buildings with attentative personal that actually KNEW their stuff. One of my favorites was a store called B. Altmans. it was on 34 street I think and 5th ave. Had elevator operators and the store associates that would direct you to where you wanted to go, so you did not end up wandering aimlessly around. Had people to tell you the price of merchandise, and the stores were CLEAN. OMG, not the horrible mess with clothes flung all over the place.

Stores like that actually made shopping pleasurable.

They are gone, the modern consumer does not shop like that anymore.

Now the problem is Geeza, is that you guys criticize absolutely every thing Disney does against some unattainable, never to return to metric. ABSOLUTELY every conversation on any change turns into "back in the day, when Epcot, MK, HS, Ak" fill in the blank. EVERY conversation.

Now personally I don't think it's ever going to be that way again. No we are not going back to typewriters, we are not going back to huge mega department stores, we are not going back to how the parks were run in 1980's and that might not be a bad thing. The reality is Disney is giving the modern day visitor exactly what it wants. They like the IP stuff, the love the character meet and greets.

Could they do better? maybe, I'm the first to admit, I don't look really that deep into theme park rides at all. I couldn't tell you if the ride should have visible tracks or not, I could not tell you if a ride is based on a carnival attraction or not.

 

[MrConbon]

7DMT will continue to have long wait times for years on end.

No broad assumptions about children and what excites them, either. When given the choice between going to an amusement park or a museum, the majority of children will choose the amusement park. Education and curiosity aren't as valued today as they once were. Do you see kids in the Norway pavilion reading about the rich Scandinavian culture, or screaming over Elsa and Anna?

That isn’t anything new. I highly doubt if you asked a kid in 1980 if he would rather go to Disney or a museum every kid would pick Disney. Kids these days aren’t completely dumb, mindless zombies like some people think they are.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Serious and real question:
If you went for a more authentic Chinese food(correct, I'm not talking Panad Express here) and the staff were native Colombian or from Sudan would you find that restaurant credible? I would not at face value, even though there is a chance that it could pump out some damn tasty offerings.
Goes to credibility/believability

lol, you don't live in NY do you? Where a large majority of pizza joints will have some one from latin America making the food. that's a joke, I totally get what you are saying. now I do think you have to take even that scenario with a grain of salt. One of my favorite Greek restaurants here in Philly has a very multinational staff. The owner and head chef are from Mikos but think about it, if you've got a restaurant with 30 workers, what's the probability that everyone you hire is going to be from that food ethnicity?

 

[DisneyDoctor]

That isn’t anything new. I highly doubt if you asked a kid in 1980 if he would rather go to Disney or a museum every kid would pick Disney. Kids these days aren’t completely dumb, mindless zombies like some people think they are.

There are some unsettling trends, but I don't think many of them are unique to children. The advent of social media and technology, while purposeful, have created addicted users, some would even call them mindless zombies.

 

[Angel Ariel]

7DMT will continue to have long wait times for years on end.

No broad assumptions about children and what excites them, either. When given the choice between going to an amusement park or a museum, the majority of children will choose the amusement park. Education and curiosity aren't as valued today as they once were. Do you see kids in the Norway pavilion reading about the rich Scandinavian culture, or screaming over Elsa and Anna?

There's a reason I took my nephews to Epcot before we took them to any other WDW park on their first trip. They were 3 and 6 at the time. They had no concept of what Disney World was. They spent at least 2 hours in The Seas pavilion. Yes, we rode the ride and did Turtle Talk, but they were also fascinated with the aquarium itself, the manatees, and asking the CMs questions. After riding Spaceship Earth, they spent a good 30+ minutes playing the games at the end of the ride. They would have spent longer had we not moved them along. Innoventions? At least another hour there...(and this was 2013, so while Innoventions still existed, it wasn't what it had been even just 5-6 years before that). Living with the Land was a hit too. Test Track actually didn't go over well with the 6 year old at the time. He hated it. Both boys loved Soarin'. We spent the whole day in future world, pretty much...only venturing back to WS for dinner. They're now 8 and 12, and they still love Epcot. These boys also love the memberships they have to their local aquarium and local natural history museum. When they visit me., the air and space museum is a must (who doesn't love seeing a Space Shuttle?)

Adults make a lot of unconscious decisions for kids. That they won't like this, or won't like that, so we don't bring them there. Which then turns into them not liking those things, because they aren't exposed to it. We're all more happy and comfortable when we're familiar with something. Of course kids love rides - everyone loves rides. But they are also quite capable of enjoying educational experiences *along* with rides when they're given the exposure.

 

[eliza61nyc]

That isn’t anything new. I highly doubt if you asked a kid in 1980 if he would rather go to Disney or a museum every kid would pick Disney. Kids these days aren’t completely dumb, mindless zombies like some people think they are.

No, they are not but kids usually have the same expectations that adults make. If I told my kids and neices and nephews tomorrow we were going to wdw they would not associate that with "learning". if I told them we were going to the Franklin institute (a popular place here in philly that combines museums with "fun") the expectation would be different. If I told them we were going to Wildwood NJ, that would be a totally different expectation than if I said we were going to Independance Hall.

It's funny because my kids hated Cape Canaveral and Kennedy space center. the reason?? "Too much reading mom". lol and this was from a kid who went on to be an engineering major in college.

Now I live in Philly, my kids are sandwiched in between 3 major cultural centers. Not to mention their father was Portugese and the spent a bunch of time flying to Europe, freakin kids got better passports than most adults I know and have been exposed to more museums that the law should allow ADD that to the fact their grandmother was a civil rights attorney so they grew up with a 100 thousand relatives that could be described as teh history of black america.... and when you say Disney, they hear "FUN"!!

 

[DisneyDoctor]

There's a reason I took my nephews to Epcot before we took them to any other WDW park on their first trip. They were 3 and 6 at the time. They had no concept of what Disney World was. They spent at least 2 hours in The Seas pavilion. Yes, we rode the ride and did Turtle Talk, but they were also fascinated with the aquarium itself, the manatees, and asking the CMs questions. After riding Spaceship Earth, they spent a good 30+ minutes playing the games at the end of the ride. They would have spent longer had we not moved them along. Innoventions? At least another hour there...(and this was 2013, so while Innoventions still existed, it wasn't what it had been even just 5-6 years before that). Living with the Land was a hit too. Test Track actually didn't go over well with the 6 year old at the time. He hated it. Both boys loved Soarin'. We spent the whole day in future world, pretty much...only venturing back to WS for dinner. They're now 8 and 12, and they still love Epcot. These boys also love the memberships they have to their local aquarium and local natural history museum. When they visit me., the air and space museum is a must (who doesn't love seeing a Space Shuttle?)

Adults make a lot of unconscious decisions for kids. That they won't like this, or won't like that, so we don't bring them there. Which then turns into them not liking those things, because they aren't exposed to it. We're all more happy and comfortable when we're familiar with something. Of course kids love rides - everyone loves rides. But they are also quite capable of enjoying educational experiences *along* with rides when they're given the exposure.

What kid wouldn't enjoy an aquarium? Also, big surprise, they enjoyed playing the video games after spaceship earth. What do they do in WS? Do they enjoy the rich cultural offerings and read about the different countries?

I think your nephews are likely the exception, not the rule. I appreciate the anecdotal stories, but it doesn't change the fact that kids are more interested in rides.

 

[geekza]

@Angel Ariel Well said. Exposing children at a young age to the Arts, Science, History, etc. is what helps them develop an appreciation and love for them. My kids love video games and thrill rides as much as other teenagers, but they also enjoy the more intellectual pleasures in life. It's all in how it's presented. Walt knew that.

 

[DisneyDoctor]

@Angel Ariel Well said. Exposing children at a young age to the Arts, Science, History, etc. is what helps them develop an appreciation and love for them. My kids love video games and thrill rides as much as other teenagers, but they also enjoy the more intellectual pleasures in life. It's all in how it's presented. Walt knew that.

So it was Walt who exposed children to the arts, science, and history at a young age? Or was it the parents?

The current and future states of Epcot reflect what children value and appreciate at home. Why, then, should Disney try and convert kids from ride loving to art, science and history appreciating children while they're on vacation? That makes absolutely no sense. They should give the kids what they want, make lifelong fans, and create return customers.

 

[geekza]

So it was Walt who exposed children to the arts, science, and history at a young age? Or was it the parents?

The current and future states of Epcot reflect what children value and appreciate at home. Why, then, should Disney try and convert kids from ride loving to art, science and history appreciating children while they're on vacation? That makes absolutely no sense. They should give the kids what they want, make lifelong fans, and create return customers.

You and I are seemingly at odds with what is valuable and worthwhile. There's no sense in going back and forth. Current Disney management is very much in agreement with your point of view. I just happen to vehemently disagree. I'll leave the conversation there.

 

[Angel Ariel]

What kid wouldn't enjoy an aquarium? Also, big surprise, they enjoyed playing the video games after spaceship earth. What do they do in WS? Do they enjoy the rich cultural offerings and read about the different countries?

I think your nephews are likely the exception, not the rule. I appreciate the anecdotal stories, but it doesn't change the fact that kids are more interested in rides.

I'd also say that what their parents expose them to is the exception, not the rule...which was kind of the point of my post. Adults have a great deal of influence over what kids like and don't like. Especially at young ages like 3 and 6. They see what we love, what we enjoy, and it creates a disposition to love it themselves. But, I'm just a teacher...what do I know?

 

[Crazydisneygirl]

What are the predictions on how busy the new land will be 2 1/2 months into it. We are going in September and wondering how busy this park will be. We usually love HS for the tower and Rock n Roll coaster. Predictions please

 

[DisneyDoctor]

I'd also say that what their parents expose them to is the exception, not the rule...which was kind of the point of my post. Adults have a great deal of influence over what kids like and don't like. Especially at young ages like 3 and 6. They see what we love, what we enjoy, and it creates a disposition to love it themselves. But, I'm just a teacher...what do I know?

So is it Disney’s job to fix what the adults of the world messed up?

 

[DisneyDoctor]

You and I are seemingly at odds with what is valuable and worthwhile. There's no sense in going back and forth. Current Disney management is very much in agreement with your point of view. I just happen to vehemently disagree. I'll leave the conversation there.

I understand their point of view, I don’t like it.

 

[eliza61nyc]

What are the predictions on how busy the new land will be 2 1/2 months into it. We are going in September and wondering how busy this park will be. We usually love HS for the tower and Rock n Roll coaster. Predictions please

Hey most folks here are predicting it to be a disaster, so who knows. lol. We're going the last week in August and that use to be a "slower" time.
I did a touring plan for 8/29-9/4 and most of the days are 5's and 6's. now the new TSL will bring in the guest with smaller children so maybe at the other end with RnR and TT will be lighter.

 

[Crazydisneygirl]

I

Hey most folks here are predicting it to be a disaster, so who knows. lol. We're going the last week in August and that use to be a "slower" time.
I did a touring plan for 8/29-9/4 and most of the days are 5's and 6's. now the new TSL will bring in the guest with smaller children so maybe at the other end with RnR and TT will be lighter.

I don't have the touring plans - any clue what is the number for Sept 9-19? We are also spending 2 days at Universal. Going with husband and a 16 year old boy.

 

[Angel Ariel]

So is it Disney’s job to fix what the adults of the world messed up?

Um, no, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

Let's try to reword the point. In general, kids have no concept of what Disney world is until they go for the first time. Especially those that go at toddler ages. Adults can influence how kids see epcot by how they choose to introduce it to them. Go to any of the other 3 parks first, epcot will likely be found boring. Go to epcot first, and you might be surprised how much kids do enjoy it as an edutainment experience. It's not Disney's job to fix what adults do or don't do, but that doesn't mean they *have* to limit what is available to experience either. Epcot attendance numbers are still above the other 2 "ride" parks, last I checked.

Of course, much of the education aspect has been ripped out at this point and epcot is just a shell with no real purpose either way right now. so, yes, it needs direction moving forward. I just believe that Disney doesn't have to toss aside the concept of edutainment. That's what sets epcot apart from MK. If anyone can do edutainment well, both from a fun standpoint and an education standpoint, Disney can. When they care enough to do so.

 

[Damon7777]

They are amazing. Not to mention Star Wars is likely to have some major jaw-dropping theming (hopefully congruent so @Damon7777 can quit whining) and attractions.

I think people like you do need to get with the times

I feel a bit concerned about your future patients since listening(reading what was actually written as opposed to you inventing and manufacturing)and bedside manners are not strong in you.

Hey would be medic, Surprise Surprise!!!!
As a rule, with some exceptions, I prefer the newer type attractions, especially the entire 2001 built Disney Sea.

 

[graphite1326]

7DMT will continue to have long wait times for years on end.

No broad assumptions about children and what excites them, either. When given the choice between going to an amusement park or a museum, the majority of children will choose the amusement park. Education and curiosity aren't as valued today as they once were. Do you see kids in the Norway pavilion reading about the rich Scandinavian culture, or screaming over Elsa and Anna?

My wife and I go to WDW every-other-year. Our children are adults. 7DMT is a big disappointment to us. Now that I have looked into TS land, it looks like it will be 1 and done for us there. TSMM and out.

We don't do Norway anymore either. Used to be a must for us.

 

[DisneyDoctor]

I feel a bit concerned about your future patients since listening(reading what was actually written as opposed to you inventing and manufacturing)and bedside manners are not strong in you.

Hey would be medic, Surprise Surprise!!!!
As a rule, with some exceptions, I prefer the newer type attractions, especially the entire 2001 built Disney Sea.

Brains and thought power are not strong in you, Damon. I feel a bit concerned for whatever profession you partake in, although based on the content in your previous posts and your grammar it can't be too detrimental to society.