Official D23 Thread

[EPCOT Explorer]

Why? Because society wants to have fun at a theme park?

Damn them! Damn them to hell!

:lol:

:ROFLOL::ROFLOL:


Gotta agree with you there.

There are different types of fun, though...And to this, I apply the AC Rule here.

EPCOT does NOT have to apply to everyone, or, rather everyone in the "typical Disney World Family" Family can mean anything.

So can fun....See the AC Connection?


So....D23....That....:lol:

 

[HMF]

Why? Because society wants to have fun at a theme park?

Damn them! Damn them to hell!

:lol:

That wasn't what I meant. Epcot should be fun and educational at the same time. The point is it seems that this train of thought that people are getting dumber is spreading within the Disney Company so they feel the need to shove characters into things and turn Spaceship Earth into an episode of the Jetsons. Disney seems to think it's guests are all Miss Teen South Carolina

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

That's a problem with society and unfortunately Epcot seems to reflect society.

Thats a big mirror

 

[luvlifeinfl]

Man how did I miss the announcement from the D23 expo on release of POTC 4 in 2011.:brick: I just seen that today And I am beyond excited!!! :sohappy:AAh Johnny Depp.:slurp:

 

[jakeman]

I don't blame Disney for that...But inspiring future generations? How? I see none of that.

In the same "vein" of choosing things, you don't choose to see how the OLD pavilion worked. This is a two way street, Jake.

I don't really think you need to talk to me about old Epcot. I was going there before you were born and am much more familiar with the old Epcot than you give me credit for.

The old pavilion was great for its time, but its time passed. I understand exactly how it worked and how it fit into the old Epcot. I also can see that it ultimately failed in the end to retain interest of the general public.

I admitted that it entertained...It's still missing the Inspirational part, and the Informing. And when I say Inform, I am looking for something more than the plaques and what TT COULD do. If you think like that, there is a whole host of things that can be considered entertainment, that really isn't. At the most, it's back up, or plussing....At least to me, it is. It should ACTIVELY do that, not require you to go read a plaque.:lol: Same for inspire.

Again, you have in your mind what you want and that differs from what is presented. It's not about you and your singular ideals for Epcot. You have such a narrow focus of what Epcot can and can't do, such a rigid set of rules that you can't see what others see.

Yeah, it's there to take your money. It takes you money. I see that. But, I also see a place that is rich in ideas, stories, life, and something of deeper meaning and experience. It's a business, yes, but it creates (or created) the aura of not being one.

As always, that's called marketing.

And now I feel we are too deep into my thought process, so would you, umm, budge up a bit, Jake....Make room for Servo.:lol::lookaroun

:lol:

That wasn't what I meant. Epcot should be fun and educational at the same time. The point is it seems that this train of thought that people are getting dumber is spreading within the Disney Company so they feel the need to shove characters into things and turn Spaceship Earth into an episode of the Jetsons. Disney seems to think it's guests are all Miss Teen South Carolina

Because we don't want to reach everyone, right? Just the people you deem smart enough for your Epcot.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I don't really think you need to talk to me about old Epcot. I was going there before you were born and am much more familiar with the old Epcot than you give me credit for.

The old pavilion was great for its time, but its time passed. I understand exactly how it worked and how it fit into the old Epcot. I also can see that it ultimately failed in the end to retain interest of the general public.

Again, you have in your mind what you want and that differs from what is presented. It's not about you and your singular ideals for Epcot. You have such a narrow focus of what Epcot can and can't do, such a rigid set of rules that you can't see what others see.

As always, that's called marketing.

:lol:

Because we don't want to reach everyone, right? Just the people you deem smart enough for your Epcot.

Fine, then...I'll let up, there.

Don't make this just about me, however!:lol: This is a whole SLEW of people. And yes, you are going to say "It's just the Fanboys". In my opinion, the fans are the most important group to a company. We know them, we expect things out of them, we are nostalgic for them. In this interaction for and with us, they maintain values and an image that if one group of people latch onto, others can and will, too. It can, of course change.:shrug:

I wonder if anyone, any random person, is latching onto the Disney of 2009. Ignoring the past Disney, and latching on just for things happening in the present? I don't think so...The past is what created this. They should try to preserve it, and change things STUCK in the past to match the present while still pertaining to the original aims and ideas.

So...While we might be creating new fans with Nemo, and putting them in EPCOT, you are alienating the original fans. Exclude Nemo and have a dry old show, you exclude the new people.

You have to fine a happy balance...Something they did NOT do with Nemo@TLS. Something they DID do with TL, SSE, and now, even FL! (Let's bring this full circle, shall we?) (Heck, let's go deeper! D23? New fans...What about the rest of us that WERE fans before?)

Marketing? See above. Same thing.

And yes, I want to reach everyone. Like I said...Happy balance. They are reaching new fans, yes. Me? Nope.

An EPCOT for all, how's that for a blanket statement?:lol:

 

[krankenstein]

I prefer Nemo to the TLS, but I never cared for the original much. However, I do miss "The Deluge." :lol:

 

[HMF]

Because we don't want to reach everyone, right? Just the people you deem smart enough for your Epcot.

On the contrary I belive Epcot can inspire and educate a lot of people if given the chance.

 

[janoimagine]

Thats a big mirror

Humongous.

 

[jakeman]

Fine, then...I'll let up, there.

Don't make this just about me, however!:lol: This is a whole SLEW of people. And yes, you are going to say "It's just the Fanboys". In my opinion, the fans are the most important group to a company. We know them, we expect things out of them, we are nostalgic for them. In this interaction for and with us, they maintain values and an image that if one group of people latch onto, others can and will, too. It can, of course change.:shrug:

I wonder if anyone, any random person, is latching onto the Disney of 2009. Ignoring the past Disney, and latching on just for things happening in the present? I don't think so...The past is what created this. They should try to preserve it, and change things STUCK in the past to match the present while still pertaining to the original aims and ideas.

So...While we might be creating new fans with Nemo, and putting them in EPCOT, you are alienating the original fans. Exclude Nemo and have a dry old show, you exclude the new people.

You have to fine a happy balance...Something they did NOT do with Nemo@TLS. Something they DID do with TL, SSE, and now, even FL! (Let's bring this full circle, shall we?) (Heck, let's go deeper! D23? New fans...What about the rest of us that WERE fans before?)

Marketing? See above. Same thing.

And yes, I want to reach everyone. Like I said...Happy balance. They are reaching new fans, yes. Me? Nope.

An EPCOT for all, how's that for a blanket statement?:lol:

However, and I've brought this up many times before, look how the fans act.

Why would Disney cater to you (the fan)? You will not be pleased.

TL (Tomorrowland?): Have you seen the numerous threads decrying the theming?

SSE: Really? Again, thread after thread on how it was dumbed down.

FL: It's not even built and people are claiming there is nothing for them in the expansion.

D23: I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the arguement against D23. I'm not a member but I don't begrudge the club or anyone who decided to join.

Personally, if I was a Disney executive, I wouldn't give old Epcot fans the time of day. I really think you (the fan) do more harm than good.

There comes a time when fans aren't worth the trouble. I'm afraid that Disney has reached that point with its most hardcore group. Beside, that group is going to come anyways. Why does it matter if they spend a little less when there are 2 people waiting to take their place with deeper pockets?

 

[Atomicmickey]

However, and I've brought this up many times before, look how the fans act.

Why would Disney cater to you (the fan)? You will not be pleased.

TL (Tomorrowland?): Have you seen the numerous threads decrying the theming?

SSE: Really? Again, thread after thread on how it was dumbed down.

FL: It's not even built and people are claiming there is nothing for them in the expansion.

D23: I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the arguement against D23. I'm not a member but I don't begrudge the club or anyone who decided to join.

Personally, if I was a Disney executive, I wouldn't give old Epcot fans the time of day. I really think you (the fan) do more harm than good.

There comes a time when fans aren't worth the trouble. I'm afraid that Disney has reached that point with its most hardcore group. Beside, that group is going to come anyways. Why does it matter if they spend a little less when there are 2 people waiting to take their place with deeper pockets?

Nicely said, but I'm not certain that Disney thinks the hardcores aren't worth the trouble--they are just giving them attention proportionate to their numbers. I don't know if others on the board are the same, but I know dozens, if not hundreds of people who have been to WDW once or more--and NONE of those are as interested in Disney as I am--well, in my own personal experience, then, it's several hundred to one, in terms of people who enjoy Disney World just fine, but don't know a whit about Master Gracey or Mesa Verde.

So, Disney's 'core demographic' is....everyone! Of which, hardcore fans are a very, very small subset.

Hey, somewhere else on the boards, someone posted pics of "EPCOT Center" glasses currently for sale. They get it. They're just not about to
rebuild Horizons.

 

[IlikeDW]

Fine, then...I'll let up, there.

Don't make this just about me, however!:lol: This is a whole SLEW of people. And yes, you are going to say "It's just the Fanboys". In my opinion, the fans are the most important group to a company. We know them, we expect things out of them, we are nostalgic for them. In this interaction for and with us, they maintain values and an image that if one group of people latch onto, others can and will, too. It can, of course change.:shrug:

I wonder if anyone, any random person, is latching onto the Disney of 2009. Ignoring the past Disney, and latching on just for things happening in the present? I don't think so...The past is what created this. They should try to preserve it, and change things STUCK in the past to match the present while still pertaining to the original aims and ideas.

So...While we might be creating new fans with Nemo, and putting them in EPCOT, you are alienating the original fans. Exclude Nemo and have a dry old show, you exclude the new people.

You have to fine a happy balance...Something they did NOT do with Nemo@TLS. Something they DID do with TL, SSE, and now, even FL! (Let's bring this full circle, shall we?) (Heck, let's go deeper! D23? New fans...What about the rest of us that WERE fans before?)

Marketing? See above. Same thing.

And yes, I want to reach everyone. Like I said...Happy balance. They are reaching new fans, yes. Me? Nope.

An EPCOT for all, how's that for a blanket statement?:lol:

Sometimes what we latch on to is feelings/emotions/nostalgia. I think the genius of Walt was he understood it was not just about creating a cool ride, it was about creating a world where families could experience fun together. So yes i think the 4-10 year olds are latching on to the memories created when the visit the parks and its those memories that are going to bring them back in later years so they can experience it with their children and guess what they will probably be upset that their favorite ride buzz light year(just an example) closed to be replaced by something inferior.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

However, and I've brought this up many times before, look how the fans act.

Why would Disney cater to you (the fan)? You will not be pleased.

TL (Tomorrowland?): Have you seen the numerous threads decrying the theming?

SSE: Really? Again, thread after thread on how it was dumbed down.

FL: It's not even built and people are claiming there is nothing for them in the expansion.

D23: I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the arguement against D23. I'm not a member but I don't begrudge the club or anyone who decided to join.

Personally, if I was a Disney executive, I wouldn't give old Epcot fans the time of day. I really think you (the fan) do more harm than good.

There comes a time when fans aren't worth the trouble. I'm afraid that Disney has reached that point with its most hardcore group. Beside, that group is going to come anyways. Why does it matter if they spend a little less when there are 2 people waiting to take their place with deeper pockets?

Small group of us...And honestly, I'm not in all of it.:shrug::lol: It's just that the differentiated direction of EPCOT goes "too" far from it's original aims. Of course it is my opinion that it's original aims are better.

Adressing you points, now...

TL- I'm fine with it. Don't mind TS, don't mind Stitch. Only problem is with MILF, but I love with it. Technically, I am living with EPCOT, too, you know. It still remains my favorite place in the world.

SSE- Fine with it except for a few things. Narration is one of them, and so is the nonexistent finale. I don't even think of that as a "EPCOT" argument/point. That's just bad show. Disney is better than lackluster screens.

D23: It's growing on me. This expo did a ton for it's image, and it's value, which was mine, and other peer's concern. While the Expo is fantastic, well worth it...Where are the benefits for other members that can't make it out to Cali? The Magazine? I don't think it's worth $75.

Honestly, don't want to, or intend on getting into that here. You asked, and I will provide answers.:lol: That's not what this is about....

But you can't just blanket all fans under one term of "they all hate this and love this". Like I have been saying...BALANCE.

Nicely said, but I'm not certain that Disney thinks the hardcores aren't worth the trouble--they are just giving them attention proportionate to their numbers. I don't know if others on the board are the same, but I know dozens, if not hundreds of people who have been to WDW once or more--and NONE of those are as interested in Disney as I am--well, in my own personal experience, then, it's several hundred to one, in terms of people who enjoy Disney World just fine, but don't know a whit about Master Gracey or Mesa Verde.

So, Disney's 'core demographic' is....everyone! Of which, hardcore fans are a very, very small subset.

Hey, somewhere else on the boards, someone posted pics of "EPCOT Center" glasses currently for sale. They get it. They're just not about to
rebuild Horizons.

Well said. That's exactly it. They know we are here...and it wouldn't kill them to acknowledge us a bit more.

D23 Expo was a HUGE step in the right direction though! Wish it was more accessible. I would kill to go.

Sometimes what we latch on to is feelings/emotions/nostalgia. I think the genius of Walt was he understood it was not just about creating a cool ride, it was about creating a world where families could experience fun together. So yes i think the 4-10 year olds are latching on to the memories created when the visit the parks and its those memories that are going to bring them back in later years so they can experience it with their children and guess what they will probably be upset that their favorite ride buzz light year(just an example) closed to be replaced by something inferior.

Again, true, but shouldn't they appeal to the "old" Nostalgia already created for generations before?:shrug:


Glasses with the logo are nice and all....but...

 

[janoimagine]

Why would Disney cater to you (the fan)? You will not be pleased.

I disagree with you for one simple reason. The brand, Disney owe's the fan in this respect, it's because of the 'fans' that the Disney brand is as strong as it is today.

A successful brand is a trigger that makes us (the consumers or 'fans') feel a certain way when that brand is thought of. Brand loyalty is an enormous part of any company, as we have a choice of products in the same market segment, and so any successful company will continually try new ways to keep the consumers interrested in their product or coming back to their location rather than going to a competitor.

Without the fans, their is no Disney brand, and their is no solid foundation for Disney to stand on. It's basic marketing.

Apple's branding, continual improvement of product as well as development of exciting new product is a prime example of how fan loyalty and catering to those fans keeps a company moving forward and exceeding expectations.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I disagree with you for one simple reason. The brand, Disney owe's the fan in this respect, it's because of the 'fans' that the Disney brand is as strong as it is today.

A successful brand is a trigger that makes us (the consumers or 'fans') feel a certain way when that brand is thought of. Brand loyalty is an enormous part of any company, as we have a choice of products in the same market segment, and so any successful company will continually try new ways to keep the consumers interrested in their product or coming back to their location rather than going to a competitor.

Without the fans, their is no Disney brand, and their is no solid foundation for Disney to stand on. It's basic marketing.

Apple's branding, continual improvement of product as well as development of exciting new product is a prime example of how fan loyalty and catering to those fans keeps a company moving forward and exceeding expectations.

Fantastically said. Thank you!:wave::sohappy:

 

[TP2000]

Werner Weiss, of fabulous Yesterland.com website fame, had a great write up of D23 Expo on Miceage yesterday. It's still on the Miceage front page, and it hit the nail right on the head.

The other divisions of Disney need to step up to the plate at the next D23 Expo and bring their A Game. Parks & Resorts blew us all out of the water with their amazing pavillion, while ABC TV and Consumer Products need to realize they aren't nearly as cool as they think they are. Step to the side ABC and Merchandising, the fans are here to see about the Parks, the Movies, and the Animation.

Television and shopping at the mall are dying art forms from the 20th century. So bring on the next D23 Expo and the fantastical Walt Disney Parks & Resorts Pavillion! :sohappy:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Werner Weiss, of fabulous Yesterland.com website fame, had a great write up of D23 Expo on Miceage yesterday. It's still on the Miceage front page, and it hit the nail right on the head.

The other divisions of Disney need to step up to the plate at the next D23 Expo and bring their A Game. Parks & Resorts blew us all out of the water with their amazing pavillion, while ABC TV and Consumer Products need to realize they aren't nearly as cool as they think they are. Step to the side ABC and Merchandising, the fans are here to see about the Parks, the Movies, and the Animation.

Television and shopping at the mall are dying art forms from the 20th century. So bring on the next D23 Expo and the fantastical Walt Disney Parks & Resorts Pavilion! :sohappy:

Just read it, and completly agree. D23's greatest thing is this expo.:sohappy: That's where the value lies. They just need to spread it around now.

 

[MousDad]

So bring on the next D23 Expo and the fantastical Walt Disney Parks & Resorts Pavillion! :sohappy:

In Orlando!! :sohappy:

Or DC :lookaroun

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

In Orlando!! :sohappy:

Or DC :lookaroun

Miami!:lol::lookaroun


In WDW itself would be the ultimate. And, around summer time, too.:lookaroun

 

[jakeman]

On the contrary I belive Epcot can inspire and educate a lot of people if given the chance.

As long as it conforms to a narrow set of rule you have laid out based on a small plaque.

Again, true, but shouldn't they appeal to the "old" Nostalgia already created for generations before?:shrug:

Interesting that you are so hung up on the futurism of Epcot, but in the same breath require Disney to pay tribute to nostaligia.

I disagree with you for one simple reason. The brand, Disney owe's the fan in this respect, it's because of the 'fans' that the Disney brand is as strong as it is today.

Nope. Disney owes us nothing and we owe nothing to Disney in return.

They have built a successful brand by providing a quality product, but they are under no obligation to keep providing that, and fans are under no obligation to keep purchasing what Disney is selling. Good business decisions are another matter, but there is no "owing" from or to either party.

There comes a point where a customers money is not worth it any more because their artificial expectation are too high. At that point, the company stops caring as the expenditure to make the customer happy is not worth the profit margin. My fear is that TWDC has gotten to that point with their fans.

Why create an extension of a whole land when a small group is only going to see the demographics don't fit their expectation?

Why make an interactive comedy club when a small group is only concerned about theming?

Why build a new attraction when fans are going to keep lamenting the loss of what was there 10 years earlier?

Why bother? You are going to come anyways, and if you don't, there is someone to take your place.