NYT: "Universal....Takes Aim at Disney"

[Cosmic Commando]

I am not sure when this became so important to Disney megafans. Especially considering some of the worst examples of this type of show are found at WDW. Just a FEW examples off the top of my head -

1) Walking from Tomorrowland to Main Street or on the Peoplemove, you can clearly see the backsides of Main Street U.S.A. building - the same as being able to see a show building - they aren't even painted uniform to try and blend in.

2) Riding the WDW Railroad, you can now see an employee parking lot/backstage area on your way back to the Main Street, U.S.A. station. They aren't even trying to hide it anymore with bushes. You literally look to your right, and there is backstage...In addition, when I rode a couple weeks ago - on your way to the Storybook Circus station, you are going to be able to see the entire backside of the Fantasyland expansion. B&B and Mermain showbuildings right there. I really have no idea how they could hide it. It's right there - and they aren't going to build a forest to block it.

3) Swan & Dolphin from Epcot....needs no further explanation. It's pathetic.

4) Have we forgotten that there used to be a Skyride through MK? That showed the tops of the buildings and some pretty good backstages areas?

So when exactly did the rule come to be that Disney was the perfect standard when it came to show again?

You've forgotten the successor to the Skyway, the Wildlife Express Train/Rafiki's Planet Watch, where the only thing to see on the train ride are the animals' concrete barns and at Rafiki's Planet Watch, you can see them take care of all of the animals that they told you elsewhere in the park were really in Africa or really living in the former maharajah's palace ruins in Asia. I was really hoping Avatar would land here.

That being said (though I've never seen it in person), the way the show building seems to show up in the queue for Forbidden Journey is pretty bad. Both Uni and Disney can make bad decisions.

 

[Captain Chaos]

If rock work was added to the side of the show building, the Hogwarts Castle forced perspective would have been off... What is funny is, Universal bashers want to pinpoint this as Universal being so far behind Disney, yet Disney is guilty far more than Universal with show building being visible..

Soarin's show building is an eyesore... But no Pixie Dust addict dares say something negative about that... Maybe partially visible show buildings are a necessary evil... I'd rather a little of the show building being visible and have one heck of an immersive land (like Wizarding World) than having the building covered up and the land being less than impressive...

 

[bubbles1812]

Judging by ticket sales I am not the only one who sees a difference between Disney and Uni. When Uni builds a massive geodesic dome, a roller coaster on par with BTMRR, or a Safari ride that makes you feel like you really are in an exotic foreign land get back to me and let me know. I will be on the next plane to Orlando.

Ugh, another person where their Disney hats pulled down very low over their eyes... Total ticket sales are fairly irrelevant. Disney is massive compared to every other theme park in the world. Of course they are going to get more total ticket sales. They have more hotels and more parks...so they have a greater capacity.

BUT if you look at the attendance records for the past few years since HP came along, would you like to know whose % of visitors went up and whose have stayed the same? I'll give you a hint...Disney's numbers have not really gone up. I will say it again. Total ticket sales are fairly irrelevant when comparing the two. And I think it is not a stretch to say not all of them were just coming for Universal but some were taking time out of their Disney vacations for Universal. In fact, based on everyone I know who has gone down to Florida for (mostly) Disney, it's a fairly big chunk.

Also, no offense, but you gave examples of all old rides/structures at Disney. What has Disney presented that is new in the past few years that is good? More Meet and Greets...yay!!! *rolls eyes* Yes there have been remodels/refurbs ext that are good but if you want new ground breaking rides...you have to go to Universal. BTMRR is a great ride (Though it's actually not that great roller coaster from a thrill perspective...it's one of the tamest ones out there. The theme is great but there are many great roller coasters out there that are without themes) and so is Safari. But at this point, again, they are old. Disney hasn't done much new to wow it's guests in a while and the attendance numbers reflect that. (I am not saying this is the only factor for why Disney's attendance has been so flat but it is one of them)

You also do come across extremely hypocritical. Disney has many "show" issues that need addressed as others have pointed out, same as Universal. Neither park is perfect. And why people place so much importance on a bit of show building showing is beyond me...and that goes for either park.

EDIT: Also this point is not meant to be a doom and gloom post. I love Disney. I love it. But some things do need to be done in the parks if Disney wants to stay ahead of Universal.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Who is this bubbles and where did she come from??? Darn, one less person to sign up to my Pixadone clinic...

 

[Tom Morrow]

I'm confident Universal would have hid the FJ show building if they had the room there. But they didn't. That basically took up the entire remaining plot of land for IOA excluding the relocation of backstage facilities which is something that would have to be done in the future.

 

[jt04]

Ugh, another person where their Disney hats pulled down very low over their eyes... Total ticket sales are fairly irrelevant. Disney is massive compared to every other theme park in the world. Of course they are going to get more total ticket sales. They have more hotels and more parks...so they have a greater capacity.

BUT if you look at the attendance records for the past few years since HP came along, would you like to know whose % of visitors went up and whose have stayed the same? I'll give you a hint...Disney's numbers have not really gone up. I will say it again. Total ticket sales are fairly irrelevant when comparing the two. And I think it is not a stretch to say not all of them were just coming for Universal but some were taking time out of their Disney vacations for Universal. In fact, based on everyone I know who has gone down to Florida for (mostly) Disney, it's a fairly big chunk.

Also, no offense, but you gave examples of all old rides/structures at Disney. What has Disney presented that is new in the past few years that is good? More Meet and Greets...yay!!! *rolls eyes* Yes there have been remodels/refurbs ext that are good but if you want new ground breaking rides...you have to go to Universal. BTMRR is a great ride (Though it's actually not that great roller coaster from a thrill perspective...it's one of the tamest ones out there. The theme is great but there are many great roller coasters out there that are without themes) and so is Safari. But at this point, again, they are old. Disney hasn't done much new to wow it's guests in a while and the attendance numbers reflect that. (I am not saying this is the only factor for why Disney's attendance has been so flat but it is one of them)

You also do come across extremely hypocritical. Disney has many "show" issues that need addressed as others have pointed out, same as Universal. Neither park is perfect. And why people place so much importance on a bit of show building showing is beyond me...and that goes for either park.

EDIT: Also this point is not meant to be a doom and gloom post. I love Disney. I love it. But some things do need to be done in the parks if Disney wants to stay ahead of Universal.

You are meandering around looking to make a point that seems in no way related to what I was talking about. I continually make comments on these boards concerning improvements I would like to see at WDW. Just because some here only seem capable of playing a single note does not mean all of us are equally as unimaginative.

The point I was making was Uni and others may have come up with some nice ride tech in recent years but they have yet to prove they can achieve the scope and quality of WDI. I keep hoping they surpasss WDI but so far they haven't. Further, it seems the mouse is letting Uni show their cards before reacting. They learned their lesson from the overreaction of the Eisner years. Good things come to those who wait. Timeless truth.

What we need around here is more orchestras and fewer player pianos sounding programmed notes.

 

[ChrisFL]

The point I was making was Uni and others may have come up with some nice ride tech in recent years but they have yet to prove they can achieve the scope and quality of WDI.

If that's what you think, give specifics, because I frankly thing you're wrong. Let's not forget here that many of Universal Creative's staff were working at WDI before going to Universal.

 

[menamechris]

You are meandering around looking to make a point that seems in no way related to what I was talking about. I continually make comments on these boards concerning improvements I would like to see at WDW. Just because some here only seem capable of playing a single note does not mean all of us are equally as unimaginative.

The point I was making was Uni and others may have come up with some nice ride tech in recent years but they have yet to prove they can achieve the scope and quality of WDI. I keep hoping they surpasss WDI but so far they haven't. Further, it seems the mouse is letting Uni show their cards before reacting. They learned their lesson from the overreaction of the Eisner years. Good things come to those who wait. Timeless truth.

What we need around here is more orchestras and fewer player pianos sounding programmed notes.

So you HAVE experienced Harry Potter, correct? After all - you are giving opinions based on what sounds like personal experience as far as your impressions, ride tech and how it compares to Disney's...so you have physically gone to Universal since Harry Potter opening and created these opinions yourself, right?

 

[jt04]

If that's what you think, give specifics, because I frankly thing you're wrong. Let's not forget here that many of Universal Creative's staff were working at WDI before going to Universal.

Yes I made the same point earlier. A lot of people have said there have been better bands since the Beatles too. But like there was only one Beatles, likewise there is only one WDI. Though individually they all enjoyed some success, individually they just were not as good. Everything else is subjective and I have not interest in arguing whether Pepsi is better than Coke.

BTW, please nobody ask me who 'Yoko' is in my example. Cause I have no idea.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Notice, JT still didn't give examples that ChrisFL asked for... Because he doesn't have any...

 

[wm49rs]

Notice, JT still didn't give examples that ChrisFL asked for... Because he doesn't have any...

Well, it helps to actually visit the places first.....

 

[menamechris]

Yes I made the same point earlier. A lot of people have said there have been better bands since the Beatles too. But like there was only one Beatles, likewise there is only one WDI. Though individually they all enjoyed some success, individually they just were not as good. Everything else is subjective and I have not interest in arguing whether Pepsi is better than Coke.

This is really only relevant if you have experienced both before creating an opinion. Why would someone have such strong feelings about Pepsi if they have only had Coke to drink? Or as in your example of the Beatles...how could someone make a statement that no one has been as talented and influential as the Beatles if they have never listened to the bands that they are often compared to?

And aside from the fact that you haven't been to Universal (probably ever), I would actually ask - when was the last time you were at the WDW Resort? Stating opinions as fact is one thing; having such passionate opinions based on things you know nothing about and have never experienced is just pointless....

 

[bubbles1812]

You are meandering around looking to make a point that seems in no way related to what I was talking about. I continually make comments on these boards concerning improvements I would like to see at WDW. Just because some here only seem capable of playing a single note does not mean all of us are equally as unimaginative.

The point I was making was Uni and others may have come up with some nice ride tech in recent years but they have yet to prove they can achieve the scope and quality of WDI. I keep hoping they surpasss WDI but so far they haven't. Further, it seems the mouse is letting Uni show their cards before reacting. They learned their lesson from the overreaction of the Eisner years. Good things come to those who wait. Timeless truth.

What we need around here is more orchestras and fewer player pianos sounding programmed notes.

That's fine you don't think they've proven they can achieve the scope in quality of WDI, that's your opinion. But I am curious and as others have just asked...have you actually visited Harry Potter since its opening? Heck, have you even experienced Spider Man or the Mummy? When was the last time you were actually at Universal? You STILL have yet to answer that question after several posters have asked. And please be honest. Because unless you have since the advent of Potter, I can't take you very seriously. As I've said before in the thread, Uni was dying before HP but it has now wrought an impressive, very impressive turnaround for Universal with no signs of stopping.

And good things may come to those who wait but I'm not sure it is the case here. As has been said numerous times on many threads, TDO is nervous and freaked out by the new success of Potter and Universal as a whole. That does not sound like someone who is "letting Uni show their cards before reacting." Avatarland is their next big announced project...I could be wrong but that announcement/new project seemed like a direct reaction to the success of Uni. They grabbed the hottest property they could find (and could get rights to) to develop. (If they had the rights for Marvel to appear in their parks, I'm guessing it would have been that and not Avatar). And we are already hearing reports that Avatarland is going to be scaled back!

I do think they will eventually have to do much more than Avatarland to keep ahead of their competitors (ie. I actually do hope your talk of good things coming to those who wait comes true but given how TDO has reacted in most recent projects, I'm skeptical). I don't think the Universal experience is the equivalent of Disney (or any of their other competitors) but they are getting closer. Disney's standard used to be just the Disney Worlds of years past. They were that good. Now they have let actual competitors creep into the field.

 

[flavious27]

If rock work was added to the side of the show building, the Hogwarts Castle forced perspective would have been off... What is funny is, Universal bashers want to pinpoint this as Universal being so far behind Disney, yet Disney is guilty far more than Universal with show building being visible..

Soarin's show building is an eyesore... But no Pixie Dust addict dares say something negative about that... Maybe partially visible show buildings are a necessary evil... I'd rather a little of the show building being visible and have one heck of an immersive land (like Wizarding World) than having the building covered up and the land being less than impressive...

This is an eyesore?

The Land is one of the more interesting buildings in WS and its architecture is functional.

And when you're flown to every event for free, DisneyParks becomes one entity to you. The cost and burden of all the traveling between resorts to experience new things is lost on you at that point. RSR means nothing to someone going to WDW. It only serves as a reminder of things we don't get.

Really I would not want RSR in WDW, massive lands like that carsland should be unique and not cloned. Also carsland mixes well into the hodgepodge that is dca. Along with that wdw had the og rsr, test track.

Did you ever do Star Trek the Experience? This is just an example of the type of attractions that were opening that prior.. were comprehendable in a Disney park.. that no longer were exclusive to Disney. Themed and exquist areas? Vegas trumped them. Ride Design? Uni caught up and trumped them in many areas. Many things that used to be exclusive to Disney were no more...

This really has been true since the 90s.. everyone else was catching up while Disney was dumbing down.

Did anyone really ever do st:e? As well as the experience was, it could not bring in enough people to stay opened in vegas. The only good thing about st:e closing is that the license is now available for someone else to do something better.

 

[bubbles1812]

This is an eyesore?

The Land is one of the more interesting buildings in WS and its architecture is functional.

While I don't really have an opinion on The Land and whether it is an eyesore, I think you need to get a much more recent photo than one from 1982...that is 30 years ago now. Most buildings fall into a bit of disrepair over a 30 year time span and end up needing updated. It hard to judge a building on its current merits with a 30 year old picture.

 

[WDW1974]

That's fine you don't think they've proven they can achieve the scope in quality of WDI, that's your opinion. But I am curious and as others have just asked...have you actually visited Harry Potter since its opening? Heck, have you even experienced Spider Man or the Mummy? When was the last time you were actually at Universal? You STILL have yet to answer that question after several posters have asked. And please be honest. Because unless you have since the advent of Potter, I can't take you very seriously. As I've said before in the thread, Uni was dying before HP but it has now wrought an impressive, very impressive turnaround for Universal with no signs of stopping.

And good things may come to those who wait but I'm not sure it is the case here. As has been said numerous times on many threads, TDO is nervous and freaked out by the new success of Potter and Universal as a whole. That does not sound like someone who is "letting Uni show their cards before reacting." Avatarland is their next big announced project...I could be wrong but that announcement/new project seemed like a direct reaction to the success of Uni. They grabbed the hottest property they could find (and could get rights to) to develop. (If they had the rights for Marvel to appear in their parks, I'm guessing it would have been that and not Avatar). And we are already hearing reports that Avatarland is going to be scaled back!

I do think they will eventually have to do much more than Avatarland to keep ahead of their competitors (ie. I actually do hope your talk of good things coming to those who wait comes true but given how TDO has reacted in most recent projects, I'm skeptical). I don't think the Universal experience is the equivalent of Disney (or any of their other competitors) but they are getting closer. Disney's standard used to be just the Disney Worlds of years past. They were that good. Now they have let actual competitors creep into the field.

Hey there, Bubbles ... on behalf of the entire cast of WDWMAGIC.com, I'd like to welcome you to The Online Version of the Timeshare Kingdom of the World (sponsored by Walmart!)

Seriously, welcome. And a word of warning, the poster you are engaging may have never set foot in any O-Town theme park. You'd think so to read much of what he/she/it writes. The crazy, and often circular 'logic', used is designed to do little but confuse and derail legit discussions.

You seem to get reality quite well, so I'd be wary of wasting your time.

And, welcome again!

 

[WDW1974]

While I don't really have an opinion on The Land and whether it is an eyesore, I think you need to get a much more recent photo than one from 1982...that is 30 years ago now. Most buildings fall into a bit of disrepair over a 30 year time span and end up needing updated. It hard to judge a building on its current merits with a 30 year old picture.

Yeah. The Land doesn't quite look like that anymore ... it has two giant domes (unthemed) attatched to its backside (not gonna make an Imagineer/fanboi joke here ... nope, not gonna do it ... gonna think it though!)

 

[menamechris]

While I don't really have an opinion on The Land and whether it is an eyesore, I think you need to get a much more recent photo than one from 1982...that is 30 years ago now. Most buildings fall into a bit of disrepair over a 30 year time span and end up needing updated. It hard to judge a building on its current merits with a 30 year old picture.

Exactly...that was not an eyesore...in 1982. But there wasn't a show building for Soarin' before it was built...soo...

 

[bubbles1812]

Hey there, Bubbles ... on behalf of the entire cast of WDWMAGIC.com, I'd like to welcome you to The Online Version of the Timeshare Kingdom of the World (sponsored by Walmart!)

Seriously, welcome. And a word of warning, the poster you are engaging may have never set foot in any O-Town theme park. You'd think so to read much of what he/she/it writes. The crazy, and often circular 'logic', used is designed to do little but confuse and derail legit discussions.

You seem to get reality quite well, so I'd be wary of wasting your time.

And, welcome again!

Haha, good to know. That is frustrating though if he does that just to derail legitimate discussions. And I think this thread has one of the best discussions going on the board! There do seem to be a few crazy posters on the extremes (ie Disney is the bestest! ever and there are no problems, nope not a one at one people at one end and the Disney is going to fall apart any day now and the world will end people at the other. I wish we could all find a happy medium )

Thank you for your welcome though I'm having fun so far!

 

[flynnibus]

Did anyone really ever do st:e? As well as the experience was, it could not bring in enough people to stay opened in vegas. The only good thing about st:e closing is that the license is now available for someone else to do something better.

Tons did. Remember, it was open for 10 years. It was a victim of Cedar Fair ownership (after the Paramount Buyout), the shift of Vegas to back to trying to be all adult, and generally the idea of a concept that was too big/expensive to operate stand-alone. The stand-alone point has been the doom of many popular concepts that simply couldn't get the economies of scale in place to keep the place looking like an attractive enough investment to keep operating.

The place was top notch and matched or surpassed Disney in lots of ways.