Numbers, Cars and Quality ...

[WDW1974]

So it had more to do with Eisner's change in direction around late 1994 after his heart attack and the death of Frank Wells?

Frank was still alive when the changes started to be made to the business modeling. Too many other things were happening from the Disney's America fiasco to Euro Disney's financial problems to the delays in getting DCL up and running to the start of development of Celebration to the ABC/Cap Cities merger ... it wasn't simply Frank dies, Michael has a heart attack and the business falls apart.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Frank was still alive when the changes started to be made to the business modeling. Too many other things were happening from the Disney's America fiasco to Euro Disney's financial problems to the delays in getting DCL up and running to the start of development of Celebration to the ABC/Cap Cities merger ... it wasn't simply Frank dies, Michael has a heart attack and the business falls apart.

True, my previous statement was far too simplistic. However, wasn't there a memo that went out around that time from Michael that said cut, cut and cut?

 

[stevehousse]

After hearing about the studio ghibli idea, I now long for a Ponyo water ride! My kids absolutely love that film as do I!

 

[the.dreamfinder]

This might sound crazy, but since Dick Nunis is still alive...

 

[the.dreamfinder]

After hearing about the studio ghibli idea, I now long for a Ponyo water ride! My kids absolutely love that film as do I!

Or a Howl's Moving Castle á la Swiss Family Robinson. Skipper John would wet himself in excitement.

 

[SirLink]

This might sound crazy, but since Dick Nunis is still alive...

...or Matt Ouimet hell I bet he would love to do it so he could smirk at JR.

 

[SirLink]

I am positive right now about the direction of much of TWDC and much of P&R. WDW is improving in some micro areas.

I think it really is only a matter of time before things get drastically improved if only because Disney will simply have no choice. The Exec 'Leadership' Team still thinks it knows all and that FLE, Pandora, DDP, DVC and NEXT GEN are all they need to compete ... and they're going to get a nasty wakeup call. The question then will be whether they can fast track projects in FL the way UNI can or they are going to attempt in Anaheim.

I thought they were running around like it was the end of the world in O-town, so I presume the only panicky party is back in Burbank?

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Zsolt Hormay is the world reknowned rock work artist that was responsible for WWOHP, Carsland, and the spectacular rock work on LM@the MK. I am wondering if they will use an equally as well known "Plywood Flats Artist"?

 

[alphac2005]

No, not really. It's so minimal. Why would you spend that kind of time & money to plan a trip to WDW just for that? I wouldn't.

So true. When you take the scenery and dining spots out of the Fantasyland expansion, we have one new attraction, period. 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea has been gone for well more than a decade and it has taken a decade to get at least ONE ride to take the place of it. A re-themed 60 second kiddie coaster, a doubling of a ride that is woefully under capacity, a water spot where kids run around like untamed animals, and new places to spend your money doesn't impress. (Even with Snow White, it's still a trade-off in attraction for attraction, but at least that seems to be a major enhancement over the prior attraction, but if you don't like any type of coaster ride... you're out.)

It's just like even with what looks to be a high-end quality redo of Test Track doesn't make up for the fact that other attractions are in shambles or shuttered in Epcot. Test Track had the masses going to it before and it will again.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I agree - and I think it has already happened in the minds of many consumers. While I think the Magic Kingdom will always be the definition of a theme park - I think most tourists could take or leave the other three WDW parks at this point. If Universal continues what they are doing (and it looks like they will) - I agree they will leapfrog the other Disney parks. By the time Disney realizes and accepts this - it will be far too late. A new generation may have found a new vacationing home.

I think Disney looks at Fastpass+ in the same way they look at Magical Express. It's a way to trap people on property. There has been speculation that Fastpass+ could eliminate Free Dining (good) and be the main perk for staying on property (bad). It's almost as if they think the reason why people are going to Universal because of Express Pass and not because of the attractions themselves.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I can't imagine Disney would want to recreate that situation. I could see very little being outdoors and that portion under some sort of cover (unless they're afraid it would fall onto guests!)

How real is that fear for them at this point? Is that only in Florida that they fear any overhead effects?

 

[flynnibus]

I think you may have a point. We all know what happens to TT when it rains (just wait and see what this will do when FP+ is around and there is no FP anymore) with the large outdoor portion.

I can't imagine Disney would want to recreate that situation. I could see very little being outdoors and that portion under some sort of cover (unless they're afraid it would fall onto guests!)

I could see them trying to figure out how to avoid the huge outdoor for environment reasons -- leading to needing to think of how the experience would need to change. Changing the storyline, etc starts to make more sense... And it becomes a win win in their struggles. Dca gets to stay unique, fl gets indoors, and it avoids having to build acres of scenery.

I can see a train of thought here... If it results in a good experience is of course unknown but I think there would be more to it than simply 'build it cheap' like so many people got hot about.

But unless they were to dramatically alter the outdoor sequence by shortening it and replacing it with something else... I have to question pulling the experience off with the same impact.

I guess I'm dancing around 'change can be for more than 1 reason...'

 

[SirLink]

At this point why not just theme any Eastern Cars Land as that of Porto Corsa, if they don't want all that outside track and rock work.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I could see them trying to figure out how to avoid the huge outdoor for environment reasons -- leading to needing to think of how the experience would need to change. Changing the storyline, etc starts to make more sense... And it becomes a win win in their struggles. Dca gets to stay unique, fl gets indoors, and it avoids having to build acres of scenery.

I can see a train of thought here... If it results in a good experience is of course unknown but I think there would be more to it than simply 'build it cheap' like so many people got hot about.

But unless they were to dramatically alter the outdoor sequence by shortening it and replacing it with something else... I have to question pulling the experience off with the same impact.

I guess I'm dancing around 'change can be for more than 1 reason...'

I too am of the firm conviction that a full scale Cadillac Range does not fit DHS. At all. Disney would be mad to build it. It does not fit the theme of DHS, would only further intesify the park's identity crisis.

If WDW feels obliged - of their own accord or from higher up - to bring the Cars franchise to the Eastcoast, then it would be better if something else will be developed. Say, RSR 2.0. Try to improve on the ride itself, and leave the full land to California, where it belongs and for which it was developed.

And God forbid WDW goes Tokyo and destroys Frontierland / Liberty Square for Cars Land.

 

[SirLink]

I too am of the firm conviction that a full scale Cadillac Range does not fit DHS. At all. Disney would be mad to build it. It does not fit the theme of DHS, would only further intesify the park's identity crisis.

If WDW feels obliged - of their own accord or from higher up - to bring the Cars franchise to the Eastcoast, then it would be better if something else will be developed. Say, RSR 2.0. Try to improve on the ride itself, and leave the full land to California, where it belongs and for which it was developed.

And God forbid WDW goes Tokyo and destroys Frontierland / Liberty Square for Cars Land.

1)It was always supposed to be part of a larger DHS Makeover - and doing something as corny and lame as being on the set of Radiator Springs is a waste of time, money and effort. Its like WWHP, we aren't going on the set, we are entering the world.
2) Are you saying OLC is destroying Westernland in TDL?

 

[The Empress Lilly]

1)It was always supposed to be part of a larger DHS Makeover - and doing something as corny and lame as being on the set of Radiator Springs is a waste of time, money and effort. Its like WWHP, we aren't going on the set, we are entering the world.
2) Are you saying OLC is destroying Westernland in TDL?

1) Yes, that's why DHS should follow its own course, and not copy-and-paste from DCA.
2)No, Westernland in TDL is an entirely different beast from the MK. I meant that Tokyo bringing Cars Land to the MK is not automatically cause for criticism of WDW for not doing so. The MK would not benefit from a CL. One may or may not think CL is a good step forward for Tokyo, without juxtapositioning it with WDW, as Al Lutz does.

Even if all Disney parks in the world build gloriously elaborate Cars Lands, it could still be the right decision for WDW not to follow suit. Or to just build a small Cars presence.

 

[SirLink]

1) Yes, that's why DHS should follow its own course, and not cup-and-copy from DCA.
2)No, Westernland in TDL is an entirely different beast from the MK. I meant that Tokyo bringing Cars Land to the MK is not automatically cause for criticism of WDW for not doing so. The MK would not benefit from a CL. One may or may not think CL is a good step forward for Tokyo, without juxtapositioning it with WDW, as Al Lutz does.

Even if all Disney parks in the world build gloriously elaborate Cars Lands, it could still be the right decision for WDW not to follow suit. Or to just build a small Cars presence.

1)Fine theme it to Porta Corsa from the second film.
2)Even, even, TDO isn't that stupid enough to add a 'Cars Land' to MK
3)Ya mean like how a certain Boy Wizard is going to be appearing at 4 theme parks(USH, USO, IoA and USF), if they build it so it both looks good and has substance it will be fine.

 

[ryguy]

One could argue that DVC plays a role with TDO decision making. Basically you have a large group of visitors who you know will be coming every year and you already have there money. I know since the inception of DVC the parks attendance has been more spread out and attendance up. There is no real slow season anymore like the old days. I think DCV plays a factor in that. Truthfully DVC members should be the most upset; they have laid out a huge chunk of change and are not getting much in return.
Another factor may be annual pass membership, Cali has a lot more annual passholders than WDW. Anaheim has to keep changing and adding to appease the passholder's. Hence holiday overlays to major attractions and a revamped DCA.
I book many WDW vacations and I would say half my clients don't even know about the new Fantasyland. And when I mention it to them the response isn't overwhelming more like a bonus. Whereas in Cali the locals are a buzz about Carsland, you can see/hear there excitement about the addition.
I think many families who visit WDW are hitting milestones. For example: There kids are at the "perfect age 4-7" or they are returning cuz their kids are little older and can experience more attractions. For the average Suburban American family I think going to Disney has become a rite of passage, something that as a parent you need/expected to do at least once or twice with the kids. If I know that, TDO knows that, they also know that fanboi's and DVC members are suckers and are going to visit either way. So they cater to the casual traveler. No different than beer companies marketing to the casual/recreational drinker.

One thing I do know to be true is that WWOHP changed the game. The detail in Carsland as well as the new Fantasyland is a direct result of the gauntlet Universal laid down with Potter. You can't just roll out a half hearted attempt and think people will buy it. Carsland proved Disney is capable of doing something great once again. MGM, AK, previous DCA are also examples of them producing pure garbage too. I think Avatar land will be a good test to see just how committed Disney is on creating quality rather than crap. My hope is that Uni will keep up and push the envelope because that's the only way Disney will continue to push there own envelope. Sad but true I am afraid.

 

[Daannzzz]

I could see very little being outdoors and that portion under some sort of cover (unless they're afraid it would fall onto guests!)

That was the best laugh of the day.

 

[Kuhio]

Oh, and I have a feeling you'll be at WDW to experience that E-Ticket (hey, lay off me, Lou Mongello told me!) new kiddie coaster coming in 2014.

Well, you do know that I'm a swinger... um, that I enjoy swinging attractions (even ones that don't come with barf bags!)...