NTSB Releases Factual Information Report on Monorail Crash

[Digger R US]

answer

Secondly, The NTSB report states that 'The Pink train
passed through the TTC station and struck the Purple train
while it was outside the station.'My question is why didn't Monorail Pink stop at the station? What reason could the pilot have had to continue reversing, instead of going forward on the Express beam towards the Monorail shop? Or was it the pilot's intention to go clockwise around the lagoon instead?

Pink was cleared to back "through" base, and continue past poly, GF, MK, and onto the shop. So he was just following commands to go through the station backward and to continue around the lagoon backwards

 

[dandaman]

Austin did not jump from the monorail to save himself. He even was trying to reverse his passengers out of danger.

A modern-day Casey Jones, it seems. Such selfless acts of bravery, especially in one's final moments, should be honoured in the highest degree.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Pink was cleared to back "through" base, and continue past poly, GF, MK, and onto the shop. So he was just following commands to go through the station backward and to continue around the lagoon backwards

Okay, thats just weird. Why would a train go in reverse all the way around the lagoon? Going forward to the switch by MK is closer. Really doesn't make much sense - either way, you're backing off the tracks from Express to the Shop.

And that's not in the NTSB report i posted. It says he was cleared to go onto the MK (express) Loop, not necessarily back all the way around the lagoon.

 

[Monty]

But the guests had boarded at Epcot, which had closed hours earlier... I could understand if they boarded at TTC to get back to Epcot parking, but it was the opposite way around here.

I've seen guests board at TTC to ride the full EPCOT loop. If the trains are still running, why not? A nice long loop around EPCOT is a great way for a monorail fan to relax after a hectic day at a crowded MK. :animwink:

 

[hrcollectibles]

let's let the investigation run its course before we start breaking out the "torches and pitchforks." Similar to the hours immediately following the crash, there was a huge rush to judgement, of which 70% about of the theories were disproved.

The news cycle and internet blogging may be 24/7 - 365, but real life is not as instantaneous.


If this anonymous source is correct, then it is likely they will be dealt with, and/or P&P will be checked/fixed to insure this behavior during operating hours is not allowed behavior.

Well 3 people have been given a leave with pay

 

[flynnibus]

Okay, thats just weird. Why would a train go in reverse all the way around the lagoon? Going forward to the switch by MK is closer. Really doesn't make much sense - either way, you're backing off the tracks from Express to the Shop.

Because to go forward through the contemp would mean moving the barn switch twice. If you go all the way around the loop, you can leave the barn spur connected to the express loop.

 

[tomm4004]

I've seen guests board at TTC to ride the full EPCOT loop. If the trains are still running, why not? A nice long loop around EPCOT is a great way for a monorail fan to relax after a hectic day at a crowded MK. :animwink:

Possibly. But this was a family of six with stroller-age children at 2am. It'll be interesting to see if they ever speak publicly.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Possibly. But this was a family of six with stroller-age children at 2am. It'll be interesting to see if they ever speak publicly.

They have. They did an interview with FOX.

Well 3 people have been given a leave with pay

Thats standard procedue given an investigation of this nature.

 

[tomm4004]

They have. They did an interview with FOX.

Thanks for the link. Coming out through the windows? Sounds like quite an ordeal. I hope the kids learn to deal with the situation.

 

[Bluewaves]

He was most likely cleared all the way to the MK station in reverse then to switch ends there and then proceed to the barn, so purple could unload quickly and probably do the same thing shortly after that way the other train on the line, could get its guests off and go to the barn as well, this was gone over in the other thread as a common practice for the end of the night on the Epcot line.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Its an explanation but it doesn't explain why he would have went that entire distance - including off the Express loop - in reverse. I could buy that without a problem if he had changed Cabs.

 

[fillerup]

I realize this is slightly off topic, sorry, but I couldn't see a better place to post this short of starting a new thread.

A little outrageous don't you think?

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-2200-Orlando-Theme-Parks-Examiner~y2009m7d9-Disney-Cast-Members-express-outrage-over-TV-monorail-crash-recreations-using-childrens-toys

 

[PhotoDave219]

I realize this is slightly off topic, sorry, but I couldn't see a better place to post this short of starting a new thread.

A little outrageous don't you think?

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-2200-Orlando-Theme-Parks-Examiner~y2009m7d9-Disney-Cast-Members-express-outrage-over-TV-monorail-crash-recreations-using-childrens-toys

I saw that on WESH last night. As a photojournalist, Its crap like this clip that gets people to hate the media. I work in that field and I was horrified and offended on many levels.

First its misleading, its out of scale, it doesn't represent anything near what happened and its sensationalistic. There's no good reason that one would use toys instead of a simple informational graphic made from sat. photos.

It sounds like something a 22-year-old junior producer would come up with.

 

[Rob562]

Its an explanation but it doesn't explain why he would have went that entire distance - including off the Express loop - in reverse. I could buy that without a problem if he had changed Cabs.

It was mentioned that Pink was cleared in reverse all the way to the MK. Station. Once they got to the MK station, they would stop there and go through the reboot procedure to switch ends. Once Pink was fully on the Express beam, they could stop using the Override and drive in reverse using the MAPO blocklights.

Conceivably, they could have had Pink stop at the Express TTC station to do the reboot, but if the intent was to move Purple off the Epcot beam behind Pink, it would have been faster overall to get Pink well ahead of Purple in the Epcot-Spur-Express-to-MK sequence. Then Purple could be unloading, waiting for the switches and driving to the MK while Pink was parked at the MK rebooting. If Pink did the reboot at the TTC, Purple would have needed to sit at the hold-point beyond the switch (or at a hold point on the Spur itself) waiting for Pink to finish its reboot.

-Rob

 

[Rob562]

It may make more sense to those who operate these amazing machines, but I too feel perplexed. Why if there are sensors/proximity controls, etc, that daily operating procedure calls for overriding these controls?

Does seem weird doesn't it? It seems that an override would be an extreme condition, not an everyday/routine event.

The MAPO blocklight system is designed for "normal" operation of the monorail train. And by "normal" I mean the process of driving along the beam, carrying passengers along a closed loop of track.

Switching a train off of the track it's on is an "abnormal" operation when looked at it in those terms. The blocklight system isn't designed to be a part of that abnormal operation. In fact, if you just tried to drive onto the spur *without* the override, the train would e-stop itself because of what it percieves as an unsafe condition.

Without going into the details (which are described in the other thread very well by a monorail pilot), the MAPO system looks for transmitters in the track. If it can't see ANY transmitters on the track in the direction it's driving, it will e-stop the train.
One of the ways that the train won't see any transmitters is because there's a train there. Another is because the beam they're headed to is a switch thrown to a spur line. The spur track have NO transmitters on them. So when the driver tells the train to drive toward the spur, the MAPO system says "No way! I don't see any transmitters!" and it stops the train. So, in order to get past that, the driver must override the MAPO system for the expanse of time that the train is on the spur track not seeing any transmitters.

Unfortunately, with this incident, Pink was overriding the MAPO system as instructed so that they could drive onto the Spur. But, what the override was REALLY overriding was that the train was seeing a train behind it. As far as I know, BOTH red lights look identical to the train. In both instances, the train deoesn't see any transmitters behind it.

I hope that made sense...

-Rob

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I've seen guests board at TTC to ride the full EPCOT loop. If the trains are still running, why not? A nice long loop around EPCOT is a great way for a monorail fan to relax after a hectic day at a crowded MK. :animwink:

Indeed! That's the magic of the Monorail. Shame that it's been marred by this.

 

[NX2I85]

I don't want to get in the lawsuit versus non-lawsuit argument, but if the manager's were not on property, not properly attending to the responsibilities of their job, I'm not sure how is that not negligent. Disney is the company that employs those people. They are ultimately liable for their actions or inactions. It was a terrible tragedy, and for the sake of Austin and his family, they absolutely should have some sort of civil closure. Yes, it was an accident, but it occurred because of negligent behavior on the part of Disney managers. That is cause for litigation.

I agree. The whole lawsuit argument is not my cup of tea. But you can bet your little red wagon that if someone(s) who was supposed to be on site monitoring switches and such was over having a Grand Slam at Denny's then Disney has legal problems IMO. Who knows, maybe the monitoring was covered by someone else at the time of the accident, all in accordance with procedure. I'm sure that's all being looked into by the NTSB, TDO, and Oralndo's finest ambulance chasers.

I know this probably goes without saying, but since I haven't posted a lot since the accident... the death of this fine young CM sickens me. Every new detail I uncover seems to make it that much more sad. My heart is heavy for the loss of his life. Peace to his family.

 

[TOTGuy]

Ok as for the manager there is more than one manager on duty for us at FD, let alone for Monorails. ONE manager was off property buying pizzas for his CMs, some who had worked a 19 hour day. This manager is getting flamed even though there were other managers on duty. He was not sitting in Dennys eating. Ok?

 

[Sherrybaby]

Ok as for the manager there is more than one manager on duty for us at FD, let alone for Monorails. ONE manager was off property buying pizzas for his CMs, some who had worked a 19 hour day. This manager is getting flamed even though there were other managers on duty. He was not sitting in Dennys eating. Ok?

If that's the case then someone better call CNN and MSNBC and probably the people running the AP wire because I heard that they WERE at Denny's; and this was reported all day today no matter what station I turned on. If you have information that he was out getting pizzas what's your source?

 

[PhotoDave219]

He's a sacrifical lamb that will appease the television news gods.