NTSB Releases Factual Information Report on Monorail Crash

MythBuster,
SAFETY.....only a factor due to $$!! That is a STUPID statement!!I work for the POWER CO.have for 35yrs.SAFETY COMES FIRST..."ALWAYS"!! Even prac.SAFETY accidents happen....that's what this was.....Will something good come out of this...yes it will....!While everyone is having a say....I wonder why no-one has asked how the OTHER driver is.....think how that driver feels....think.....what that driver will think for the rest of their life....ALWAYS will second guess..etc!
Jim
 
I wonder why no-one has asked how the OTHER driver is.....think how that driver feels....think.....what that driver will think for the rest of their life....ALWAYS will second guess..etc!

You know, you're right. I have a feeling that poor soul will be blaming him/herself forever...always thinking "what could I have done to stop this"...so on, and so forth. The truth of the matter is that they appeared to follow Monorail central's commands, which is what they are supposed to do. It really is just a bad accident...
 

hrcollectibles

Active Member
You know, you're right. I have a feeling that poor soul will be blaming him/herself forever...always thinking "what could I have done to stop this"...so on, and so forth. The truth of the matter is that they appeared to follow Monorail central's commands, which is what they are supposed to do. It really is just a bad accident...


The other pilot should not be blamed. From what I understand he had the all clear. Who should feel guilty and lose their job is the idiot Manager that was at a Lake Buena Vista Restaurant when he/she should have been at their post.
 
I think you are being a bit naive. The only reason Disney (or any other company/transit agency) would make changes to prevent a reoccurrence is financial. As people have pointed out, there have been no fatalities in 38 years, so this one accident isn't going to drive people away. They make the changes to avoid fines and lawsuits. Safety is only their concern because of the fear of fines and lawsuits.

I respect your opinion on this topic, but I have to say that you sound WAY more cynical than I sound naive. The truth of the matter is that in a perfect world Disney would take care of Austin's family and that would be the end of it. Unfortunately I fear that will never happen...which, of course, is too bad. It looks like CommunicoreBabe's and your solution will actually happen at some point, which is also too bad. Disney should want to do better without the threat of a lawsuit hanging over their head.
 

raven

Well-Known Member
It's now being reported that the people that were supposed to be in charge of the monorail switch that night (including management) have have actually been at Denny's just off property. This would have left the switch to be done by maintenence workers which sould know the proceedure anyway.

http://www.wftv.com/countybycounty/20000629/detail.html

In any case, last night during the routine monorail switch around the same time of night as the accident, Disney Security were all over the scene stopping anyone from getting too close. Obviously some press have been trying to video the switch and they are protecting area. I ran into a bus driver that came all the way to Epcot at 3:30AM to clock out because he was ran out of the TTC area by security.
 

Glasgow

Well-Known Member
First off, I want to say what a terrible tragedy and pointless way to depart this world. God bless him and his family.

I do have a question though, and forgive my lack of monorail-related technical knowledge. Why is there not a mechanism that shuts down the whole system when two trains are on an imminent collision course?? I know that the system generally runs by computer and that there is a manual mode where the drive can override the computer control; however, if two trains are in such proximity or are on the same track heading towards each other, wouldn't it seem wise to have an alarm or full system shutdown on both trains? I don't get it --- it seems like a relatively simple fix.

Please don't flame -- just asking a question here.
 

Salty-

Member
First off, I want to say what a terrible tragedy and pointless way to depart this world. God bless him and his family.

I do have a question though, and forgive my lack of monorail-related technical knowledge. Why is there not a mechanism that shuts down the whole system when two trains are on an imminent collision course?? I know that the system generally runs by computer and that there is a manual mode where the drive can override the computer control; however, if two trains are in such proximity or are on the same track heading towards each other, wouldn't it seem wise to have an alarm or full system shutdown on both trains? I don't get it --- it seems like a relatively simple fix.

Please don't flame -- just asking a question here.

There are many more qualified current and former Monorail pilots/hobbyists that can answer your question more technically, but to the average park-goer/lay-person such as myself, it seems there already are proximity sensors and the like in place.

What I have gleaned from reading these forums (and some wonderful technical know-how and input from forum members here) is that part of operating the monorail in daily use requires the override of safety sensors.

It may make more sense to those who operate these amazing machines, but I too feel perplexed. Why if there are sensors/proximity controls, etc, that daily operating procedure calls for overriding these controls?

Does seem weird doesn't it? It seems that an override would be an extreme condition, not an everyday/routine event.
 

hrcollectibles

Active Member
It's now being reported that the people that were supposed to be in charge of the monorail switch that night (including management) have have actually been at Denny's just off property. This would have left the switch to be done by maintenence workers which sould know the proceedure anyway.

http://www.wftv.com/countybycounty/20000629/detail.html

In any case, last night during the routine monorail switch around the same time of night as the accident, Disney Security were all over the scene stopping anyone from getting too close. Obviously some press have been trying to video the switch and they are protecting area. I ran into a bus driver that came all the way to Epcot at 3:30AM to clock out because he was ran out of the TTC area by security.


I want to know why these yahoos were not at their post. It seems to be that they should have been at their posts not dining at the fine Establishment that is Denny's :hurl:... I mean dining at Denny's is torture... BUt I think all three should be terminated
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
First off, I want to say what a terrible tragedy and pointless way to depart this world. God bless him and his family.

I do have a question though, and forgive my lack of monorail-related technical knowledge. Why is there not a mechanism that shuts down the whole system when two trains are on an imminent collision course?? I know that the system generally runs by computer and that there is a manual mode where the drive can override the computer control; however, if two trains are in such proximity or are on the same track heading towards each other, wouldn't it seem wise to have an alarm or full system shutdown on both trains? I don't get it --- it seems like a relatively simple fix.

Please don't flame -- just asking a question here.
The whole thing is always in "manual mode". The Walt Disney World Monorail is not automated. What was overridden was the safety system that is designed to prevent collisions.
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
This.
A million times over.

It reminds me of the line Scotty said in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan.
"He stayed at his post.."

Austin did not jump from the monorail to save himself. He even was trying to reverse his passengers out of danger.

He was going into Computer Science. As this is my field as well, it saddens me that there could have been a possibility that Austin could have helped with software/hardware improvements to the Monorail system he so obviously loved.

I still feel that the Monorail system should be human first, with technology backing up the system. It seems there needs to be improvements to the procedures in place currently.

In my mind's eye, I can see Austin seeing the potential problems in the Monorail system; and he obviously was on a career path to offer help. Who better to help solve the current problem than a computer scientist with Monorail Pilot experience? Sadly, we will never know.

We do know he was dedicated to his job. He was dedicated to helping his fellow man/woman.

To the last second.

Rest In Peace Austin. May we all learn to be as dedicated to humankind as you, so obviously, lived your life.

Well said.:( At least we will learn something from this valiant man's loss.
 

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
It's now being reported that the people that were supposed to be in charge of the monorail switch that night (including management) have have actually been at Denny's just off property. This would have left the switch to be done by maintenence workers which sould know the proceedure anyway.

http://www.wftv.com/countybycounty/20000629/detail.html

In any case, last night during the routine monorail switch around the same time of night as the accident, Disney Security were all over the scene stopping anyone from getting too close. Obviously some press have been trying to video the switch and they are protecting area. I ran into a bus driver that came all the way to Epcot at 3:30AM to clock out because he was ran out of the TTC area by security.

I don't want to get in the lawsuit versus non-lawsuit argument, but if the manager's were not on property, not properly attending to the responsibilities of their job, I'm not sure how is that not negligent. Disney is the company that employs those people. They are ultimately liable for their actions or inactions. It was a terrible tragedy, and for the sake of Austin and his family, they absolutely should have some sort of civil closure. Yes, it was an accident, but it occurred because of negligent behavior on the part of Disney managers. That is cause for litigation. If I am Austin's mother, father, brother, cousin, or friend, I would absolutely hope that Disney is held responsible in some way (financially) so that his life is not forgotten, so any earnings he may have made during his life are at least somewhat made up for, so that his family has the ability to properly see to his remains, so that a scholarship or memorial could be set up in his name. There are millions of reasons his family is entitled to some compensation from the liable parties. The only reasons they shouldn't be held liable is because it's Disney, and because the stigma an extremely small fraction of frivolous lawsuits have given civil litigation.

In an ideal world, Disney would do all of those things voluntarily, financially taking care of funeral arrangements, lost wages, scholarships, and most importantly honoring the lost life. However, that does not seem likely. Therefore, litigation is the only course of action left for a family that is in mourning.

And to all those people bashing him because of his age in the other thread. Those words must taste so bitter. His last actions on earth were putting his life on the line to try and save 6 strangers. How is that for a 21 year old?

And because his mangers were too busy eating Grand Slams;

Well done, Austin! Great work! Thank you, and keep it up!
 

hokielutz

Well-Known Member
I want to know why these yahoos were not at their post. It seems to be that they should have been at their posts not dining at the fine Establishment that is Denny's :hurl:... I mean dining at Denny's is torture... BUt I think all three should be terminated


let's let the investigation run its course before we start breaking out the "torches and pitchforks." Similar to the hours immediately following the crash, there was a huge rush to judgement, of which 70% about of the theories were disproved.

The news cycle and internet blogging may be 24/7 - 365, but real life is not as instantaneous.


If this anonymous source is correct, then it is likely they will be dealt with, and/or P&P will be checked/fixed to insure this behavior during operating hours is not allowed behavior.
 

hokielutz

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't mind seeing a rear camera display being added to every monorail train.

Also, if policies are changed to require the Monorail to be driven through switches in the forward position, then the process to switch controls between cabs should be more efficient and faster than slow and laboring process to power-down then reboot the train, according to pilots who have posted here. 5-10 minutes to switch ends is not an acceptable timeframe.

Pilots should also have remote video access to visually verify the track switches, and possibly upgrade MAPO to include GPS/RFID visual proximity assist. From a layman's perspective, there could be more bells & whistles added to give the pilots more redundant verification systems on the track.

Also, I cannot stress enought than manual override options must ALWAYS be available to the pilot. Radar proximity safety measures are not needed if the trains are operated the way they are supposed to be.
(At times two trains needed to be stored nose to nose in the Contemporary to protect them from severe storms.)
 

Scar Junior

Active Member
It's been many months since I've posted... but first of all, I'd like to thank the OP for providing us with this sad report. It brought up a lot of emotions reading it. I kept picturing myself in that cabin watching the Pink monorail creep closer and closer and questioning how I would respond.

It's very unlike me to say this, but I think a lawsuit is appropriate. It's a rare tragedy but this didn't happen out of no where... unfortunately someone is responsible.

One thing I was wondering... the report states that Austin tried to reverse Purple. Is there any proof of this? Would it be in logs or did they perhaps find the control panel was set to a reverse mode? I'm just wondering how they state that without referencing any evidence.

As to his age. I have read the threads and don't see any contempt by posters to cite his age as a possible factor - as we now know, he was a victim and not negligent. In fact, I see the opposite... people were getting bent out of shape over the slight mention that age might be a factor... interestingly, it was mostly younger people.
 

joanna71985

Well-Known Member
What I still don't understand is why there was anyone on Monorail Purple. It was coming from Epcot at 2am. The park had been closed since 10pm. Why would there be anyone going back to TTC?

If I had to guess, they started out/parked at Epcot and ended the night at MK. So they needed to get back over to Epcot for their car. Not positive, just a guess.
 

tntornadox

New Member
If I had to guess, they started out/parked at Epcot and ended the night at MK. So they needed to get back over to Epcot for their car. Not positive, just a guess.

But the guests had boarded at Epcot, which had closed hours earlier... I could understand if they boarded at TTC to get back to Epcot parking, but it was the opposite way around here.
 

ROEFan88

New Member
I have a thought about this which I haven't seen addressed yet (but then I haven't read every post written on this subject). Firstly I just want to state that the following observation is NOT intended to place blame at the feet of the pilot of Monorail Pink - this is a legitimate wondering, nothing more. Please do not misinterpret what I am about to suggest, it is only intended to prompt further discussion.
Monorail Pink backed up, with the pilot thinking he/she had been switched to the spur track, and therefore heading towards the Magic Kingdom Express beam station. This was at 2am, so it's understandable that the pilot of Pink may have had a less than ideal view of his/her surroundings. But it strikes me as strange that the pilot did not perceive of the fact that the Epcot beam (which the pilot believed he/she had now left) was not there, on the monorail's close right-hand side, as it should have been. The beam between TTC and the switching area looks fairly long - I wonder whether he/she would have had some time to have noticed this.

Secondly, The NTSB report states that 'The Pink train
passed through the TTC station and struck the Purple train
while it was outside the station.'
My question is why didn't Monorail Pink stop at the station? What reason could the pilot have had to continue reversing, instead of going forward on the Express beam towards the Monorail shop? Or was it the pilot's intention to go clockwise around the lagoon instead?

As horrific as it is to think about, the facts stated seem to suggest that Austin saw Monorail Pink backing up around the big bend up ahead, coming through the station and directly towards him.

In a nutshell, what I mainly wonder about here is whether or not the pilot of Monorail Pink could have realised what was happening earlier. I'm sure events unfolded quickly, and there was much confusion between all parties involved. Furthermore, I'm sure few people feel worse about this tragedy than the pilot of Monorail Pink, and my heart goes out to him/her, as it does to all those affected by this terrible accident.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom