Nothing Goofy about Disney park moves

flavious27

Well-Known Member
The thing though is that the $3 billion that was spent was not well spent. A third of it was to fix a park that was opened 6 years earlier on the cheap; spending an extra $200 or $300 million then would have drastically reduced the billion that was spent. The fantsyland expansion is about $425 million, it really doesn't seem like much was gained for that price. Aulani should never have cost almost $800 million to build, it gets worse with how poorly they set the annual costs.

On the positive side, money spent on HKDL was smart and helps to expand the brand. The same thing for DCL, the cruise line can help to enhance the other parks.
 

TubaGeek

God bless the "Ignore" button.
Why not?

The first time I went to WDW was the second week after its grand opening. There is a heck of a lot more to do now, the rides are better, and there are places to eat everywhere. I would rather take the parks as they are now.
Oh, how appropriate. You, who complains about all the "bashing" is now asking why Disney doesn't deserve the crowds it has. Maybe if you opened up your mind and READ the "bashing", you would educate yourself and find the answer to your question.
And yes, there is much more to do now than there was more than 40 years ago. That's not a very hard bar to overcome. If you really want to see where "the rides are better", though... give Universal a fair shot.
 

NearTheEars

Well-Known Member
You're basing your busier comment on what? Disneys supposed attendance numbers? Something that is not public and I have stated multiple times that attendance numbers are fabricated 100% of the time. You should not doubt me on this. I'm sure they had a bump this year but they will not see the same numbers in 2015. They had something shiny and new albeit very poorly laid out and unimpressive. It is impressive to their new demo though. Meanwhile I will not tell anyone to go there anymore. This is coming from someone who would be happy to spend eternity in Epcot as recently as 5 years ago.

Just an observation from my weekly visits over the last couple of years. 2011 was the last time it seemed liked there was an obvious slow season. Now, the parks have been noticeably busy on most days I've visited the last 2 years.

That's why I'm happy to finally have FP access again.

Edit to add: happy to have access, not happy I had to wait so long.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
So.....are we saying the article is not accurate??
Quoting from the article:

"Just in 2012 alone, Disney invested roughly $3 billion improving, upgrading and enhancing its theme parks."

Let’s recall what CFO Jay Rasulo said about capex in 2011:

“Five years ago or so we used to be pretty demonstrative about $1 billion number being an ongoing level without special projects added to it.

You have to remember though that in those five years in the capital projects that we have put in the ground, which each have their own growth strategy, each is filling in different parts of the portfolio, when they are back on board they all need ongoing FF&E and maintenance capital to keep them going.

So I would say that that $1 billion number is low.”​

In other words, back in 2006, Disney was spending $1B in capex for routine maintenance of its facilities “without special projects”.

As Rasulo mentioned, additional projects have been brought online, requiring additional capex dollars in order to maintain those assets.

Taking into account additional assets and inflation since 2006, baseline capex is at least $1.5B today, probably more.

Most of what Disney calls “investments” is simply the cost of maintaining its tremendous facilities.

In 2012, special projects spending was focused at DLR, not WDW. Prior to that, it was the addition of 2 new cruise ships.

The New Fantasyland's cost was around $425M while we all know about MyMagic+. ;)

The costs of these projects were spread out over years.

Iger and Rasulo repeatedly have warned Wall Street about the ongoing expense and depreciation costs associated with MyMagic+. At the 4Q2013 earnings call, Rasulo took it one step further and noted that "Relative to the front-end of your question on spending, continued spending and ramp-up of new initiatives in Florida" "we're looking at about a $300 million expense item". "[A]s you can imagine with a project like MyMagic+, which had a very heavy IT investment, which depreciates on a much more rapid basis than the normal assets we put into place in World."

MyMagic+ is a hungry beast that will need to be fed for years to come. :(

When one considers the incredible revenue stream generated by WDW, the amount of true capital re-invested back into the Orlando parks is quite small.

Quoting further from the article:

"Disney had the courage and gumption to invest in its theme park properties during the recession of 2008 and 2009."

Let's look at that a bit closer. In 2008, domestic P&R investment was $793M. (Total company investment was $1.5B.) In 2009, it was $1,039M. (Total company investment was $1.7B.) Per Rasulo's own words, the lion's share of that "investment" was in the form of "ongoing FF&E."

Quoting one last time:

“That profit rise was the result of increased guest spending and higher ticket prices, largely the result of bold investments made in the properties.”

Profit margins rose because WDW raised prices without making major investments at WDW. That’s not “bold”, that’s gutless.

The author has no idea what he's talking about.
 
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doctornick

Well-Known Member
Maybe there are just too many critics basing their opinions from an adult's point of view. Several of our friends who have returned from their first visits using the magic bands, have had nothing but nice things to say about it. The children are even more excited to have their own bands and colors that they picked out. They didn't feel it was being 'pushed in their faces'.

My children absolutely loved wearing the MBs on our trip last year. Doing "Mickey to Mickey" (my 4 yo said that constantly) was an enjoyable diversion. My niece and nephew (ages 11 and 9) are going next month and they just got their MBs in the mail and were so excited. My niece took a photo and texted it with her phone to all the family. (As an aside, my brother in law is was saying to me the other day how thrilled he was to have the FP+ all planned out (I helped) and will have less to worry about and think about when he is down there.)

It's easy to blow off the Magic Bands are pointless or even annoying, but I think Disney realized that for many folks they do add a (small) amount of magic to a WDW trip. I'm not saying they were worth the billions of dollars of investment or anything, but I don't agree with the argument that they aren't a positive at all.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Why not?

The first time I went to WDW was the second week after its grand opening. There is a heck of a lot more to do now, the rides are better, and there are places to eat everywhere. I would rather take the parks as they are now.

The main valid complaint about WDW is that the parks are "stale" and have not had major new additions in far too long. But I think objectively, there is still a ton to do at WDW and it can be an extremely enjoyable vacation the vast majority of guests.
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
My children absolutely loved wearing the MBs on our trip last year. Doing "Mickey to Mickey" (my 4 yo said that constantly) was an enjoyable diversion. My niece and nephew (ages 11 and 9) are going next month and they just got their MBs in the mail and were so excited. My niece took a photo and texted it with her phone to all the family. (As an aside, my brother in law is was saying to me the other day how thrilled he was to have the FP+ all planned out (I helped) and will have less to worry about and think about when he is down there.)

It's easy to blow off the Magic Bands are pointless or even annoying, but I think Disney realized that for many folks they do add a (small) amount of magic to a WDW trip. I'm not saying they were worth the billions of dollars of investment or anything, but I don't agree with the argument that they aren't a positive at all.

I agree here... with the marketing and informative material they send out ahead of time along with the new apps/online site and shipment of the magic bands before the trip (all in impressive packaging as well), it does add a new certain level of excitement for many families, children for sure
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
My children absolutely loved wearing the MBs on our trip last year. Doing "Mickey to Mickey" (my 4 yo said that constantly) was an enjoyable diversion. My niece and nephew (ages 11 and 9) are going next month and they just got their MBs in the mail and were so excited. My niece took a photo and texted it with her phone to all the family. (As an aside, my brother in law is was saying to me the other day how thrilled he was to have the FP+ all planned out (I helped) and will have less to worry about and think about when he is down there.)

It's easy to blow off the Magic Bands are pointless or even annoying, but I think Disney realized that for many folks they do add a (small) amount of magic to a WDW trip. I'm not saying they were worth the billions of dollars of investment or anything, but I don't agree with the argument that they aren't a positive at all.

There are a lot of posters here who still can't understand the popularity of enhanced M&Gs so do not expect them to understand something popular that is not part of their personal little demographic.

They have blinders firmly affixed. Good luck getting them to see anothers' point of view.
 

Marijil

Well-Known Member
Maybe there are just too many critics basing their opinions from an adult's point of view. Several of our friends who have returned from their first visits using the magic bands, have had nothing but nice things to say about it. The children are even more excited to have their own bands and colors that they picked out. They didn't feel it was being 'pushed in their faces'.

It reminds me of reading adult critics reviews of childrens movies. Look back to the November reviews of Frozen. Fox News commented:
"Frozen” will certainly appeal to many children, especially young girls in princess mode, but unfortunately due to clunky pacing and lackluster songs, we'll have to keep on waiting for a new Disney classic."

None of the experts had it on their radar to be such a blockbuster, but, I'll bet their children loved it.
Sorry for the drift but.....clunky pacing and lackluster songs....wow
 

TubaGeek

God bless the "Ignore" button.
There are a lot of posters here who still can't understand the popularity of enhanced M&Gs so do not expect them to understand something popular that is not part of their personal little demographic.

They have blinders firmly affixed. Good luck getting them to see anothers' point of view.

I would love an enhanced M&G, but not at that expense. Also, there are a lot of things that should take priority above having an awkwardly scripted convo with the mouse.
 

The Crafty Veteran

Active Member
The main valid complaint about WDW is that the parks are "stale" and have not had major new additions in far too long. But I think objectively, there is still a ton to do at WDW and it can be an extremely enjoyable vacation the vast majority of guests.

Stale is subjective. Maybe I'm old school but I still consider vacationing a earned time to relax and treat it as such. Busting through the parks as quickly as possible is not my idea of a good time, maybe that's why they don't seem stale to me.
 

SJN1279

Well-Known Member
The bulk of guests want E-ticket attractions. In the last decade, MK has seen 0 and the other three parks have seen one each. Those are unexaggerated facts.

I feel that the upgraded Star Tours is definitely an E-Ticket. It is the only simulator on the planet that offers random scenes and sequences. I also like the Test Track upgrade quite a bit. Disney may not have added many E-Tickets, but they upgraded ones they do have.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
First of all, USAToday is barely a newspaper, IMO. It's a collection of puff pieces for the most part. This article is no exception. The reporter was fed the facts and he did what he was told, like a good little puppy.

You know, we've been talking here for a long time about what would be an effective "Potter swatter" for WDW. Most of us agree that Avatar sure as heck ain't it. Nor is Star Wars. The main reason is that NEITHER have that Disney connection in the public's mind. Remember, DCA in Disneyland didn't succeed in large part because - in Robert Iger's own words - it wasn't "Disney" enough. (The guy's a hypocrite, though - he says that, then buys the rights to Avatar to shoehorn it into AK, while ignoring the possibilities of home-grown product like The Lion King and Jungle Book...but I digress).

But now, Disney may have that "Potter swatter"...in Frozen. But it all depends on how ambitious Disney will get about it. Whether it will build a major attraction, or major area, or just stick with the meet-and-greets.

Sadly, it'll probably be the latter...
 

UncleMike101

Well-Known Member
Stale is subjective. Maybe I'm old school but I still consider vacationing a earned time to relax and treat it as such. Busting through the parks as quickly as possible is not my idea of a good time, maybe that's why they don't seem stale to me.
Maybe people who don't think of Disney as a fun experience need to take a break and do other things over their vacations for several years.
We didn't go to WDW for a number of years due to health and financial issues.
When we visited again in 2012 it was like meeting an old friend.
He/she may be a little older, slower, not quite as vibrant, but still has the charm and wit, if you look for it, to entertain you like they did in the past.
You remember how much you liked them and all of the good times you had together.
Plus, now you get to watch your children and grandchildren enjoy the same stories and events that you enjoyed decades ago.
If someone doesn't want to go to Disney for whatever reason, that's OK with me.
I think we'll keep going there until we can't do it anymore, and then we'll have the fond memories to sustain us until we take that last trip to another "Magic Kingdom".
 

TubaGeek

God bless the "Ignore" button.
I feel that the upgraded Star Tours is definitely an E-Ticket. It is the only simulator on the planet that offers random scenes and sequences. I also like the Test Track upgrade quite a bit. Disney may not have added many E-Tickets, but they upgraded ones they do have.
"Definitely an E-Ticket"? Disney doesn't even have Star Tours on the A-list of FP+ options. And Test Track was an improvement, but there were no real changes to the actual ride.
But now, Disney may have that "Potter swatter"...in Frozen. But it all depends on how ambitious Disney will get about it. Whether it will build a major attraction, or major area, or just stick with the meet-and-greets.

Sadly, it'll probably be the latter...
Frozen is big right now, but a Potter Swatter...?
 

bhg469

Well-Known Member
"Definitely an E-Ticket"? Disney doesn't even have Star Tours on the A-list of FP+ options. And Test Track was an improvement, but there were no real changes to the actual ride.

Frozen is big right now, but a Potter Swatter...?
To think frozen will have the staying power of potter is silly simply based on the lore of the IP. The potter universe is so in depth that there is infinite potential for attractions based on potter characters. It can continue for a long time. And I'm not even a potter fan, I just see the work that went into creating this world.
 

TubaGeek

God bless the "Ignore" button.
Tower of Terror is on group B with Star Tours, are you calling that attraction D ticket as well?
This is one for the books, but I'm about to say the following sentence: SJN1279, that's a very good point.
My opinion regarding Star Tours being a D-ticket, though, stands. Regardless of randomized scenes, I don't think I can refer to any motion simulator as an E-ticket, though maybe the Iron Man one they're working on will change my mind.
 

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