Not doing fastpass or a dining plan doesn't make you a better person.

[Krack2]

Why Fastpass Is Ultimately Bad, by Krack2:

The person holding the Fastpass for Attraction A is standing in line for Attraction B. The person standing in line behind the first person, now is standing in a longer line for Attraction B than he/she would be without the Fastpass system.

In other words, the Fastpass system grants the illusion of shorter lines and shorter waits, while breeding contempt from the guy standing in the stand-by line watching Fastpassers walk right past him and worsening the experience of the guy at the back of the line for Attraction B.

Granted, some of the people holding a Fastpass for Attraction A are now standing in a store, a restaurant or sitting on a park bench - but that is a very, very small minority. Most people get right in line for Attraction B (which they will now wait longer for). The only people who don't see negative effects from Fastpass are those who only ride Fastpass attractions and always utilize Fastpasses to do so. So, unless you only ride 6 or 7 rides a day, you're not actually seeing any tangible benefit from the system; you only think you are.

All of that said, with the Fastpass system currently in place (and not going anywhere), you are getting double-screwed if you don't use it. You are not seeing the benefit of a shorter line 5 or 6 times per day, but every time you wait in a line, you are now waiting extra-long because of the people holding Fastpasses for another attraction that are standing in front of you.

 

[protiius]

i rock the fast pass but not the ddp (only because i'm too disorganised to arrange such a dining concept in advance )

 

[TubaGeek]

Why Fastpass Is Ultimately Bad, by Krack2:

The person holding the Fastpass for Attraction A is standing in line for Attraction B. The person standing in line behind the first person, now is standing in a longer line for Attraction B than he/she would be without the Fastpass system.

In other words, the Fastpass system grants the illusion of shorter lines and shorter waits, while breeding contempt from the guy standing in the stand-by line watching Fastpassers walk right past him and worsening the experience of the guy at the back of the line for Attraction B.

Granted, some of the people holding a Fastpass for Attraction A are now standing in a store, a restaurant or sitting on a park bench - but that is a very, very small minority. Most people get right in line for Attraction B (which they will now wait longer for). The only people who don't see negative effects from Fastpass are those who only ride Fastpass attractions and always utilize Fastpasses to do so. So, unless you only ride 6 or 7 rides a day, you're not actually seeing any tangible benefit from the system; you only think you are.

All of that said, with the Fastpass system currently in place (and not going anywhere), you are getting double-screwed if you don't use it. You are not seeing the benefit of a shorter line 5 or 6 times per day, but every time you wait in a line, you are now waiting extra-long because of the people holding Fastpasses for another attraction that are standing in front of you.

If I had a nickle for every time this theory was debunked, I'd be making money in a very unusual manner.

 

[The Mom]

I wonder how many people who dislike FP went to WDW prior to it's inception? I did, and I like the system, as it works better for me. I also visited WDW for many years prior to the room dining plans (free or otherwise) and I dislike them. I had no problem with people using the dining card, as it didn't have any impact on me. Just my personal experience, and yours may certainly differ.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

 

[musketeer]

Why Fastpass Is Ultimately Bad, by Krack2:



In other words, the Fastpass system grants the illusion of shorter lines and shorter waits...

So it's an illusion that I only waited 5 minutes to ride Toy Story Mania when the normal wait was 2 hours?

It's an illusion that I only wait 5 minutes to ride Expedition Everest when the normal wait is over an hour?

Same for Soarin, Tower of Terror, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, etc, etc, etc.

That's one heck of an illusion.

 

[Krack2]

I wonder how many people who dislike FP went to WDW prior to it's inception? I did, and I like the system, as it works better for me. I also visited WDW for many years prior to the room dining plans (free or otherwise) and I dislike them. I had no problem with people using the dining card, as it didn't have any impact on me. Just my personal experience, and yours may certainly differ.

Interesting question. I dislike both FP and DDP and have been going to WDW since age 6 months in 1976. For me, both FP and DDP kill spontaneity (to obvious different degrees). FP hampers spontaneity to a very small degree, but with no actual benefit; it's an illusion (see my post above). DDP destroys spontaneity and, in many instances, has made the dining experience in the parks far worse than it was 20 years ago.

All that said, I could certainly understand how someone who knows every facet of the WDW vacation experience (particularly someone who travels to the resort annually) could enjoy both FP and DDP. Regarding FP, this is a person who is more likely to want to hit all the E-tickets and shop (while skipping the smaller attractions that now have longer FP-caused longer waits) because they've "been there, done that". Similarly, regarding DDP, this is a person who is more likely to know where they want to eat (and when) and understands exactly how early in advance they need to call to make reservations.

The way I look at it, however, is that for every one Disney Commando who knows how to take advantage of the system, there are five Casual Disney-Goers who are frustrated because this is their first vacation to Disney in a decade and they can't just go in a restaurant, sit down, and eat. It causes discontent.

 

[xdan0920]

I travel to WDW annually, I work the fastpass very well, in fact on my last trip this past summer, we never waited more then 15 minutes for any ride. I think it is a system that has some promise, but it is mismanaged.

As for the DDP, well I have made my feelings on this clear. It is terrible.

 

[Krack2]

So it's an illusion that I only waited 5 minutes to ride Toy Story Mania when the normal wait was 2 hours?

It's an illusion that I only wait 5 minutes to ride Expedition Everest when the normal wait is over an hour?

Same for Soarin, Tower of Terror, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, etc, etc, etc.

That's one heck of an illusion.

No, it's an illusion that you are spending less time in line and/or visiting more attractions in a day because of Fastpass. People occupy space. If a person is holding FP for Splash Mountain, they are going to be standing in line for Big Thunder Mountain. So the Big Thunder Mountain line is now longer than it would have been without Fastpass. So if you're waiting in that line, you are seeing a negative benefit from the FP system.

The only way FP saves people time in line is if they only ride attractions which have FP and they only ride them utilizing FP. That is an extremely small subset of the WDW vacationing community. You just enjoyed your 5 minute wait on Splash Mountain? Terrific. When you got off the ride and walked over to Big Thunder Mountain, did you enjoy your 1.5 hour wait? It would have been an hour without a FastPass system. Now compound that for half the attractions you ride without a FastPass for the rest of the day.

 

[RiversideBunny]

I wonder how many people who dislike FP went to WDW prior to it's inception? I did, and I like the system, as it works better for me. I also visited WDW for many years prior to the room dining plans (free or otherwise) and I dislike them. I had no problem with people using the dining card, as it didn't have any impact on me. Just my personal experience, and yours may certainly differ.

Agree.

 

[musketeer]

No, it's an illusion that you are spending less time in line and/or visiting more attractions in a day because of Fastpass. People occupy space. If a person is holding FP for Splash Mountain, they are going to be standing in line for Big Thunder Mountain. So the Big Thunder Mountain line is now longer than it would have been without Fastpass. So if you're waiting in that line, you are seeing a negative benefit from the FP system.

The only way FP saves people time in line is if they only ride attractions which have FP and they only ride them utilizing FP. That is an extremely small subset of the WDW vacationing community. You just enjoyed your 5 minute wait on Splash Mountain? Terrific. When you got off the ride and walked over to Big Thunder Mountain, did you enjoy your 1.5 hour wait? It would have been an hour without a FastPass system. Now compound that for half the attractions you ride without a FastPass for the rest of the day.

I ride everything. I ride fastpass attractions ONLY with fastpass OR first thing in the morning. I ride everything else that doesn't have fastpass also.



In one day, I rode/saw/visited every attraction at the Magic Kingdom (except those that I don't really care about) on the busiest days of the year.

Same thing for Epcot, MGM, and Animal Kingdom.

Most of the time, I can do some of the major attractions more than once.

I may have been able to do that before fastpass, but would have spent WAY more time in line. In fact, I may NOT have been able to do everything because I would have spent more time in line.

I can only go to Disney in the middle of the summer, or during christmas time, and am able to do every ride/attraction in every park, without spending an annoying amount of time in line, and I credit that to fastpass.

 

[Krack2]

I may have been able to do that before fastpass, but would have spent WAY more time in line. In fact, I may NOT have been able to do everything because I would have spent more time in line.

Sigh. That's the point. You're not spending less time in line. You are spending the exact same amount of time in line and you are seeing the exact same amount of attractions as you would if there was no FastPass system.

It only feels like you are spending less time in line because you are seeing a dramatic shortening of the amount of time you spend in line for E-tickets (5 or 6 times a day), while simultaneously you are experiencing a much harder to feel negative short wait time increase to every other attraction line you wait in for the rest of the day (including the E-tickets that you ride using the stand-by line).

Depending on crowd levels, there were plenty of times you could ride everything in the parks before FastPass was implemented; I don't know where the counter notion came from.

Crowd levels being equal (and eating and shopping tendencies), you can not visit more attractions in a single day under the FastPass system than you could if there was no FastPass system in place.

 

[RiversideBunny]

Sure you can.
Use Fast Pass for those that have long lines. Saves a lot of time.
A lot.

 

[musketeer]

Sigh. That's the point. You're not spending less time in line. You are spending the exact same amount of time in line and you are seeing the exact same amount of attractions as you would if there was no FastPass system.

It only feels like you are spending less time in line because you are seeing a dramatic shortening of the amount of time you spend in line for E-tickets (5 or 6 times a day), while simultaneously you are experiencing a much harder to feel negative short wait time increase to every other attraction line you wait in for the rest of the day (including the E-tickets that you ride using the stand-by line).

Depending on crowd levels, there were plenty of times you could ride everything in the parks before FastPass was implemented; I don't know where the counter notion came from.

Crowd levels being equal (and eating and shopping tendencies), you can not visit more attractions in a single day under the FastPass system than you could if there was no FastPass system in place.

Sigh (very obnoxious thing to do by the way).

No Fastpass system: Spend 3 hours in line, 1 hour each, for 3 e-ticket attractions

Fastpass system: Spend 15 minutes in line, 5 minutes each, for 3 e-ticket attractions

Use the other 2 hours and 45 minutes to ride all of the other attractions that only have 5 minute waits anyway (It's a small world, Carousel of Progress, Tomorrowland Transit Authority, etc), or have ice cream, or watch a parade, or be in a store, or just sit.

Maybe you are saying that those 5 minute waits used to be 4 minute waits, is that it?

If so, then I'm willing to live with that.

Still not seeing the illusion here.

Sigh (yep..still obnoxious to do)

 

[armyfamilyof5]

:slurp:

 

[musketeer]

Why Fastpass Is Ultimately Bad, by Krack2:

The person holding the Fastpass for Attraction A is standing in line for Attraction B. The person standing in line behind the first person, now is standing in a longer line for Attraction B than he/she would be without the Fastpass system.

In other words, the Fastpass system grants the illusion of shorter lines and shorter waits, while breeding contempt from the guy standing in the stand-by line watching Fastpassers walk right past him and worsening the experience of the guy at the back of the line for Attraction B.

By the way, I completely understand your point here, but my response to that is, why doesn't the guy who is breeding contempt also have a fastpass for another ride as well?

 

[armyfamilyof5]

Why Fastpass Is Ultimately Bad, by Krack2:

The person holding the Fastpass for Attraction A is standing in line for Attraction B. The person standing in line behind the first person, now is standing in a longer line for Attraction B than he/she would be without the Fastpass system.

In other words, the Fastpass system grants the illusion of shorter lines and shorter waits, while breeding contempt from the guy standing in the stand-by line watching Fastpassers walk right past him and worsening the experience of the guy at the back of the line for Attraction B.

Granted, some of the people holding a Fastpass for Attraction A are now standing in a store, a restaurant or sitting on a park bench - but that is a very, very small minority. Most people get right in line for Attraction B (which they will now wait longer for). The only people who don't see negative effects from Fastpass are those who only ride Fastpass attractions and always utilize Fastpasses to do so. So, unless you only ride 6 or 7 rides a day, you're not actually seeing any tangible benefit from the system; you only think you are.

All of that said, with the Fastpass system currently in place (and not going anywhere), you are getting double-screwed if you don't use it. You are not seeing the benefit of a shorter line 5 or 6 times per day, but every time you wait in a line, you are now waiting extra-long because of the people holding Fastpasses for another attraction that are standing in front of you.

I had to read this twice before I grasp the concept you were sharing, which might be difficult for some folks to understand although I don't know that I agree or disagree, just saying....

 

[Krack2]

Maybe you are saying that those 5 minute waits used to be 4 minute waits, is that it?

No, I'm saying they used to be walk-ons. And I'm saying the stand-by E-Ticket lines, that used to be one hour are now an hour and a half.

If your FastPass is causing you to attend a parade you never would have watched otherwise, or to spend time getting ice cream that you never would have stopped to get otherwise, then that is lessening the burden on the lines. But if you were going to get that ice cream, or watch that parade, or sit on that park bench anyway, all the FastPass did was cause you to timeshift what portion of the day you'd be outside of the attraction lines. Most people enter the parks and are going to spend X amount of time in the eateries, Y amount of time in the shops, and Z amount of time watching parades and sitting on park benches - these times are not going to change because of FastPass.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Where your theory falls apart is that many attractions dont have any real wait, so maybe it would seem reasonable to experience those attractions rather than stand in line B which no doubt has a Fastpass terminal anyway and thus can be ridden when the Fastpass for that is available.

Call me crazy but it may just work.

 

[Krack2]

By the way, I completely understand your point here, but my response to that is, why doesn't the guy who is breeding contempt also have a fastpass for another ride as well?

Because many people visit WDW once a decade and simply don't understand how the system works. They don't utilize it. They just see people filing past them in line and know they had to wait and somebody else did not.