Not doing fastpass or a dining plan doesn't make you a better person.

[SSE]

FP is the bane of my existence. I work at an attraction that uses FP and my life would be so much easier if we didn't have it. It is true that having FP doesn't change the amount of people you can have on the ride in an hour, but there are a lot of factors that do go into it that many people on here don't think about especially if they have never worked at an attraction. Our standby line is usually much longer than it would be if we didn't have FP. One of the problems is when management doesn't think you are giving out enough fastpasses and increases the amount that are distributed. This just increases the FP line and since we are supposed to accept majority fastpasses first and try to keep the FP line pretty much empty, the standby line ends up becoming over an hour when it should be 30 - 45 mins. Also the machines are just pieces of junk so even tho that doesn't affect the line or anything it is just a major headache to deal with on busy days when you have hundreds of people wanting to get a FP and none of the machines are accepting their tickets.

 

[jakeman]

If you are so certain about your math, do you mind sharing it? Not intending to call you out or anything, but I really am interested in seeing it.

Fastpass may have little effect on overall capacity for a given ride, but the benefits it poses for one line may not outweigh the costs to those in the other. I would like to see data broken out not just for ride vs. ride, but standby line vs. fastpass. I would like to see how many guests per day or hour have reduced wait times vs how many have longer ones because of it. Then it is simply a judgement call.

No problem.

What you have to keep in mind though is that is doesn't change the average per guest wait time. So for every person you have walking on with a Fastpass that wait time is being compensated for by someone in the stand by line.

If you have an attraction that has an hourly ride capacity of 1000 and 1500 people show up it will take 1.5 hours for all the people to get through. If you give 500 of those people a Fastpass and send them straight through before taking the last 1000 the stand by line of 1000 has seen an increased wait time, but the Fastpass has seen a greatly diminished wait time. Regardless, it will still take 1.5 hours to put everyone through the line so that everyone's wait averages out to be the same in the end.

So the bottom line is, the sign on the stand by line is higher than it would be if there was no Fastpass, but that doesn't translate into a higher per guest wait time. The stand by line and a standard que's wait times can't be compared because they serve two different functions.

As to benefits to cost ratios for the two lines, that, I would think, would be an individual guest decisions. I see what you are saying and that would be a very interesting analysis with some interesting questions. I think one of the most interesting ones would be is the guest that used Fastpass spending enough on food and merchandise to justify the person (or persons) in line that is eating their wait time?

I want to be clear I am only arguing against the basic misconception that Fastpass increases wait times. The cost to benefits ratio for company versus guest is way over my head! :lol:

 

[JackieRose313]

I have not done the dining plan, nor intend too. I have come across disscusions for and against, but from what little I have learned, you really have to do high end eateries to get the FULL benefit. That is ok, but I really want to go where I or my family will like at that moment. I will do some reservations, not many. I like fastpass...it works to a degree, but I like the fact that I can keep it as a souvenir, got a bonus with a fastpass one time and put that back!

you absolutely DO NOT have to go to the
high end" restaurants to benefit from DDP. I have been using its for 4 years now...in a total of about 7 trips, and I can not tell you how convenient, and CHEAP it really is. For example.. to go to any quick serve and get a basic lunch, for one person...with a drink and a dessert (which is what ur getting on DDP) it can EASILY cost $15..give or take. Then, go on to dinner where an entree ALONE can cost $25 and up, then throw in drinks, and dessert... it can easily cost $35 for one person ALONE..then if you want a snack? Anothe easy $6... so for $42 a day, I dont see how people don't see it as a money saver.. or at least much more convenient... and as far as complains of the quality of WDW caused by the DDP... I'd LOVE to know what restaurants these people are eating at....

 

[muteki]

No problem.

What you have to keep in mind though is that is doesn't change the average per guest wait time. So for every person you have walking on with a Fastpass that wait time is being compensated for by someone in the stand by line.

If you have an attraction that has an hourly ride capacity of 1000 and 1500 people show up it will take 1.5 hours for all the people to get through. If you give 500 of those people a Fastpass and send them straight through before taking the last 1000 the stand by line of 1000 has seen an increased wait time, but the Fastpass has seen a greatly diminished wait time. Regardless, it will still take 1.5 hours to put everyone through the line so that everyone's wait averages out to be the same in the end.

So the bottom line is, the sign on the stand by line is higher than it would be if there was no Fastpass, but that doesn't translate into a higher per guest wait time. The stand by line and a standard que's wait times can't be compared because they serve two different functions.

As to benefits to cost ratios for the two lines, that, I would think, would be an individual guest decisions. I see what you are saying and that would be a very interesting analysis with some interesting questions. I think one of the most interesting ones would be is the guest that used Fastpass spending enough on food and merchandise to justify the person (or persons) in line that is eating their wait time?

I want to be clear I am only arguing against the basic misconception that Fastpass increases wait times. The cost to benefits ratio for company versus guest is way over my head! :lol:

I think you are right on one hand that if you had a perfect system with no human factors (such as what SSE mentioned previously) at the end of the day you would have similar throughput with or without fastpass. The difference I see is that in one case wait times are homogeneously distributed amongst all guests, in the other, wait times could appear to the guest to vary wildly.

In an omnimover with one line, the line theoretically moves at a steady pace, and to the guest the wait time is perceived to be small because they are always moving.

In an omnimover with two lines, one taking priority, the guests in the line with lower priority are going to experience stops and starts depending on the fastpass line. This gives the impression (real or perceived) that the wait time is longer. That combined with the fact that fastpass loads throughout the day are not constant and vary wildly, means that some guests with bad luck are going to perceive longer wait times, and others are not going to notice. This could explain the different experiences and opinions we all are reporting about certain attractions and their success with fastpass.

I think it benefits Disney from a PR standpoint to put FastPass on as many attractions as possible, and that has led to where we are today.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

you absolutely DO NOT have to go to the
high end" restaurants to benefit from DDP. I have been using its for 4 years now...in a total of about 7 trips, and I can not tell you how convenient, and CHEAP it really is. For example.. to go to any quick serve and get a basic lunch, for one person...with a drink and a dessert (which is what ur getting on DDP) it can EASILY cost $15..give or take. Then, go on to dinner where an entree ALONE can cost $25 and up, then throw in drinks, and dessert... it can easily cost $35 for one person ALONE..then if you want a snack? Anothe easy $6... so for $42 a day, I dont see how people don't see it as a money saver.. or at least much more convenient... and as far as complains of the quality of WDW caused by the DDP... I'd LOVE to know what restaurants these people are eating at....

Could it be some people just have higher standards?

 

[JackieRose313]

Could it be some people just have higher standards?

My point is not a matter of higher standards though.. they are saying the "quality has gone downhill" and I justcan't agree..I've been going to WDW for about 18 years, and I can honestly say I see NO difference whatsoever in the quality of the food...
Disney is geared highly towards children so you cant expect caviar at every restaurant when you have young children... of course you are going to see an abundance of chicken fingers, burgers, etc...
And just like any other restaurant in the country, if you want a "higher standard" food.. then you are going to pay... but then people will complain about prices... its like theres no pleasing.

 

[Laura]

I can prove that there are attractions at Disneyland that work completely fine without it. Attractions that have it at WDW.(Pan, Jungle Cruise, Pooh)

No kidding! It's AMAZING how quickly these lines move along at Disneyland compared to WDW.

 

[GoochDSA]

I personally don't use FastPass and it doesn't bother me when people do. The only time it bothered me was last year while waiting on line for Sorin' i stood at the rope after the interactive screens for 40 mins (after waiting 2 hours to get to that point) because the CM who was letting people in would not let anyone on the normal line in while letting people with FP in who just got on line (meaning that there was no actual line for people with FP but she would not let the normal line in because she said she was waiting for more FP people, which i just felt was rediculous. My anger had nothing to do with FP people, just the CM).

As for the DDP, I have used it in the past and will be using it again. I like not having to worry about the cost of meals. I actually don't think that there is a lot of savings involved with the dining plan. If the server does the job they are supposed to they get a nice tip accordingly. If I get ignored because either I am on the DDP or any other reason, then they aren't doing their job and will be tipped accordingly.

No one is making anyone use FP or DDP, they are options and perks. BOTH sides of BOTH arguments have points which make them right and at the same time BOTH sides of BOTH arguments are wrong to a degree. Just get over it already!

 

[007mickey]

you absolutely DO NOT have to go to the
high end" restaurants to benefit from DDP. I have been using its for 4 years now...in a total of about 7 trips, and I can not tell you how convenient, and CHEAP it really is. For example.. to go to any quick serve and get a basic lunch, for one person...with a drink and a dessert (which is what ur getting on DDP) it can EASILY cost $15..give or take. Then, go on to dinner where an entree ALONE can cost $25 and up, then throw in drinks, and dessert... it can easily cost $35 for one person ALONE..then if you want a snack? Anothe easy $6... so for $42 a day, I dont see how people don't see it as a money saver.. or at least much more convenient... and as far as complains of the quality of WDW caused by the DDP... I'd LOVE to know what restaurants these people are eating at....

It isn't a "money saver" to everybody because everybody has different eating habits and preferences. I run the numbers every trip and haven't been able to see the savings yet. What if I don't want dessert at lunch and I don't want a snack everyday? I've just wasted something I'm paying for with DDP. In the end, it is definitely a "to each his own" decision. Some it works for and others it doesn't.

 

[DisneyJoe]

What if I don't want dessert at lunch and I don't want a snack everyday? I've just wasted something I'm paying for with DDP. In the end, it is definitely a "to each his own" decision. Some it works for and others it doesn't.

Agreed, definitely a personal decision.

We've used snack credits for breakfast or drinks....we've taken fruit as dessert from lunch to eat later.

Can't help you if you don't eat breakfast, fruit or drink......

 

[Random Vids Inc]

Loved the Dining Plan just because it didn't break my family and everyone got to eat steak and salmon every night.

Fastpass is great for coasters, but I think that rides like Toy Story Mania and Peter Pan would have quicker lines without it!

 

[JackieRose313]

It isn't a "money saver" to everybody because everybody has different eating habits and preferences. I run the numbers every trip and haven't been able to see the savings yet. What if I don't want dessert at lunch and I don't want a snack everyday? I've just wasted something I'm paying for with DDP. In the end, it is definitely a "to each his own" decision. Some it works for and others it doesn't.

Yeah... OBVIOUSLY. Just like some people have no use for an annual pass, or even a hopper pass.. but MY point is that just because some people don't find it to be a value - DOES NOT MEAN it has cheapened or lessened the value of dining at WDW.

 

[JackieRose313]

It isn't a "money saver" to everybody because everybody has different eating habits and preferences. I run the numbers every trip and haven't been able to see the savings yet. What if I don't want dessert at lunch and I don't want a snack everyday? I've just wasted something I'm paying for with DDP. In the end, it is definitely a "to each his own" decision. Some it works for and others it doesn't.

And also.. any QS, sit down or snack credits you may not used can be used on other days, in ANY combination, or used and brought back to your room for that night or next day. You can even use snack credits for coffee, or water bottles... so they aren't just saying ok you don't use it thats it...your able to use it and eat at your leisure.

 

[007mickey]

Yeah... OBVIOUSLY. Just like some people have no use for an annual pass, or even a hopper pass.. but MY point is that just because some people don't find it to be a value - DOES NOT MEAN it has cheapened or lessened the value of dining at WDW.

There are some that will argue that point. I believe there are some threads started about this very problem, it's a matter of opinion.

 

[007mickey]

And also.. any QS, sit down or snack credits you may not used can be used on other days, in ANY combination, or used and brought back to your room for that night or next day. You can even use snack credits for coffee, or water bottles... so they aren't just saying ok you don't use it thats it...your able to use it and eat at your leisure.

Slow down there JackieRose, nobody is saying you are wrong for using, liking and/or enjoying the dining plan. As stated, it's not for everybody and to each his own.

 

[musketeer]

I personally don't use FastPass and it doesn't bother me when people do.

Why don't you?

If it's available and free and makes your waiting less, why don't you?

 

[Lisalyn]

Well I like FP and I loved the DDP this past year....and it was free AND paid for all our meals over 8 days....we did lots of character and TS meals and loved every minute of our free DDP lol :ROFLOL:

 

[GoochDSA]

Why don't you?

If it's available and free and makes your waiting less, why don't you?

2 words... People Watching. Half the fun for me is standing on line and watching as people who enter the line just about when I did slowly begin to get aggrivated, frustrated, annoyed and short tempered. I really love to people watch and I have used FP once or twice and I just didn't feel right, like something was missing. And after much thought I decided I missed the people watching.

 

[thewhitequeen]

Fastpass - Great
Dining Plan - Not so Great

Free dining is also not free. People are paying rack rate for their rooms and getting a discount on the food.

 

[ThreeCircles]

The great marketing genius behind the dining plan, for Disney at least, is that people actually think they're saving money somehow. When, in fact, Disney is just making it much, much easier for you to give them a larger portion of your disposable income.