Norway Pavilion Frozen construction - Frozen Ever After ride

[JediMasterMatt]

If they can do it in Disneyland........

It's that serious? One of these days it's going to fail catostrophically. We can only hope it's not when guests are on board.

The trim brakes didn't go in for no reason on MK's SM. While I don't think anything drastic will happen, I do think there is the possibility to wake up one morning to find that the it is closed immediately like DL's SM had happened when the inevitable work can't be put off any longer.

Everything has a finite lifespan. At some point, things have to be replaced instead of patched and maintenance has to get ahead of the curve of depreciation.

A wooden coaster (unlike what many chain theme parks may try to make you believe) NEVER finishes construction. They are designed to always have sections of track replaced. What we've come to learn over the years, is that the steel coaster also have a finite shelf life. From the lowliest wild mouse to the mightiest Swiss engineered B&M, eventually, the curve of depreciation catches up and resources are wasted in trying to patch things together.

If you visit a park with an Arrow Dynamics suspended coaster or giant multi-looper, keep an eye out for the welding support vehicles. It's quite common to find them parked underneath the high maintenance sections of the ride. At Cedar Point early in the mornings before the park opened, it was very common to see Iron Dragon or Magnum getting some attention with the torch.

The dichotomy of Orlando is such now where the legacy of the park that always had wet paint in the morning now isn't the one leading the way in doing the right thing and staying ahead of the depreciation curve (or loop in the case of Hulk).

Herein lies the problem to all of Walt Disney World. The pressure needs to be taken off of MK fast so it can get the help it needs opperate at its full potential. Hopefully the DHS redo begins to set things right not just for itself, but the entire resort to have a more laid back and properly functioning atmosphere.

100% agreed. The sad truth is that Burbank has long considered WDW as the "MK and Friends". MK is the golden goose. It drives the engine that is the hotel/resort complex that is located near the MK... and also has some other things in the form of parks they can sell tickets for.

While all of the fan community bemoans the sad imbalance that exists between the parks in Orlando, TDO mentality was such that a gate spin at MK carried more weight than a gate spin at one of the "others". As long as the MK draws people in and fills the resorts, who cares if the imbalance of Disney Parks quality exists. A guest buying a ticket and blowing through a partial days worth of fun at one of the others is more likely to jump over to Disney World (a.k.a. MK) anyway.

The real problem is now MK has reached a point where it is too big to fail. It's carrying the weight of the resort literally on its shoulders. Need 6 months to take an attraction down?... sorry, here's 2 months and we will see your request again in a year or so when things start breaking again. Want to create holding pens to cram more people into the Hub and want to shut down parades and Castle shows for a couple of months to do it?... sorry, we don't have enough confidence in the other parks abilities to hold the masses, so instead of cancelling anything, just do the project over the next 2 years.

DHS 2.0 and Pandora HAVE to shuffle the deck; but, the mindset that WDW is a WORLD and not a Kingdom has be continued or else the temporary reshuffling will lead us back to a resort where everyone still spends the majority of their time fighting their way upstream at Main Street USA. Rejoice if we get a World where MK's numbers aren't leading each year in the percentage of attendance increases and the "others" hold that title.

 

[JenniferS]

The trim brakes didn't go in for no reason on MK's SM. While I don't think anything drastic will happen, I do think there is the possibility to wake up one morning to find that the it is closed immediately like DL's SM had happened when the inevitable work can't be put off any longer.

Everything has a finite lifespan. At some point, things have to be replaced instead of patched and maintenance has to get ahead of the curve of depreciation.

A wooden coaster (unlike what many chain theme parks may try to make you believe) NEVER finishes construction. They are designed to always have sections of track replaced. What we've come to learn over the years, is that the steel coaster also have a finite shelf life. From the lowliest wild mouse to the mightiest Swiss engineered B&M, eventually, the curve of depreciation catches up and resources are wasted in trying to patch things together.

If you visit a park with an Arrow Dynamics suspended coaster or giant multi-looper, keep an eye out for the welding support vehicles. It's quite common to find them parked underneath the high maintenance sections of the ride. At Cedar Point early in the mornings before the park opened, it was very common to see Iron Dragon or Magnum getting some attention with the torch.

The dichotomy of Orlando is such now where the legacy of the park that always had wet paint in the morning now isn't the one leading the way in doing the right thing and staying ahead of the depreciation curve (or loop in the case of Hulk).



100% agreed. The sad truth is that Burbank has long considered WDW as the "MK and Friends". MK is the golden goose. It drives the engine that is the hotel/resort complex that is located near the MK... and also has some other things in the form of parks they can sell tickets for.

While all of the fan community bemoans the sad imbalance that exists between the parks in Orlando, TDO mentality was such that a gate spin at MK carried more weight than a gate spin at one of the "others". As long as the MK draws people in and fills the resorts, who cares if the imbalance of Disney Parks quality exists. A guest buying a ticket and blowing through a partial days worth of fun at one of the others is more likely to jump over to Disney World (a.k.a. MK) anyway.

The real problem is now MK has reached a point where it is too big to fail. It's carrying the weight of the resort literally on its shoulders. Need 6 months to take an attraction down?... sorry, here's 2 months and we will see your request again in a year or so when things start breaking again. Want to create holding pens to cram more people into the Hub and want to shut down parades and Castle shows for a couple of months to do it?... sorry, we don't have enough confidence in the other parks abilities to hold the masses, so instead of cancelling anything, just do the project over the next 2 years.

DHS 2.0 and Pandora HAVE to shuffle the deck; but, the mindset that WDW is a WORLD and not a Kingdom has be continued or else the temporary reshuffling will lead us back to a resort where everyone still spends the majority of their time fighting their way upstream at Main Street USA. Rejoice if we get a World where MK's numbers aren't leading each year in the percentage of attendance increases and the "others" hold that title.

Thank you, that was an amazingly informative post.

 

[marni1971]

The trim brakes didn't go in for no reason on MK's SM. While I don't think anything drastic will happen, I do think there is the possibility to wake up one morning to find that the it is closed immediately like DL's SM had happened when the inevitable work can't be put off any longer..

Very well said. And the hugely annoying fact that they've known now since 2008 that the work need doing.

TDO needs to look how Paris is handling refurbs at the moment.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

If they can do it in Disneyland........

It's that serious? One of these days it's going to fail catostrophically. We can only hope it's not when guests are on board.

Not a defense of the botched SM refurb at all, but Disneyland sorta had their hand forced. Let's just say they didn't have much of a choice but to do a full rebuild...

 

[Disney Analyst]

Very well said. And the hugely annoying fact that they've known now since 2008 that the work need doing.

TDO needs to look how Paris is handling refurbs at the moment.

How would you say TDO compares in refurbs to TDA? It seems Disneyland has a pretty consistent system with different attractions. The only one that truly seems to have missed the mark in Disneyland more than a few times is Splash Mountain. Does TDO need to look all the way to Paris, or can its neighbors to the west shed some light? Or is TDA turning into TDO?

 

[marni1971]

How would you say TDO compares in refurbs to TDA??

As it stands there seems to be a reluctance in Orlando - if Orlando management has the last say - for large refurbs or plussings compared to elsewhere. It's not like they can't afford it. IMHO.

 

[MaxW]

https://norwaypavilion.com/2014/10/05/rip-maelstrom-a-high-seas-norwegian-adventure-1988-2014/

awesome pics! never heard of it being called SeaVenture. Cool!

 

[Wikkler]

https://norwaypavilion.com/2014/10/05/rip-maelstrom-a-high-seas-norwegian-adventure-1988-2014/

This is amazing. You're Norway's greatest gift to humanity.

 

[ford91exploder]

Not that I'm defending Disney, but it's a bit easier to rebuild an unthemed outdoor B&M.

Recall that SM had all the work staged for a complete rebuild and TDO management slammed the brakes on it, There are pictures here of the structure with all the measurements and fabricators markups on the structure. Orlando management was too cheap to actually do the needful.

 

[Blairnicol]

How would you say TDO compares in refurbs to TDA? It seems Disneyland has a pretty consistent system with different attractions. The only one that truly seems to have missed the mark in Disneyland more than a few times is Splash Mountain. Does TDO need to look all the way to Paris, or can its neighbors to the west shed some light? Or is TDA turning into TDO?

I will say this: they just had BTM down for an extensive refub not too long ago in DL (like 2 or 3 years ago) where some updates got added. When I was there in Jan it was down most of the day for 'technical issues' and when we finally caught it up and running we then got stuck on the 1st assent for 20 minutes and had to wait for the fire dept to come get us off. So that one might need a re-visit....lol

 

[ford91exploder]

Easier yes.

Which one was more necessary though?

One of them is currently being held together by an almost nightly visit from the weld fairy and is has been trimmed to the point where the forces and ride experience no longer resemble what was originally intended.

The other one of them is the Hulk.

Ease of completion wasn't the reason why Space Mountain's much needed rebuild didn't take place. The impact to the budget and the always trotted out impact to park operations are the real excuses. It's amazing what WDW can't "afford" to do anymore from both a fiscal (all time record profits) and operationally (can't take an E-ticket offline at the world's busiest theme park... which happens to have more operational capacity than anything else at WDW, so why is it attractions are closed and shuttered elsewhere around the resort?).

Wake me up when this mountain becomes E-ticket mountain worthy again.

Soon Frostrom will be too big to fail at Epcot. Can't afford to do maintenance as too many FP+ reservations would need to be cancelled.

But at least the welding fairy at WDW uses Blue welders .... Props to anyone who gets the reference

EDIT: Basically in the professional welding world there are two colors of welder Blue and Red and it's like Disney vs Universal between those two brands. There are also Yellow welders but they are more a European brand

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not a defense of the botched SM refurb at all, but Disneyland sorta had their hand forced. Let's just say they didn't have much of a choice but to do a full rebuild...

Disney knew the track at Disneyland would eventually fail and hoped they would close the attraction before it could no longer be repaired (they were wrong and it broke first). Disney similarly knows that the track in Florida cannot last forever. Waiting for the point of no return could mean waiting a year for new track to be manufactured. Disneyland's closure happen early, not out of the blue.

 

[ford91exploder]

Disney knew the track at Disneyland would eventually fail and hoped they would close the attraction before it could no longer be repaired (they were wrong and it broke first). Disney similarly knows that the track in Florida cannot last forever. Waiting for the point of no return could mean waiting a year for new track to be manufactured. Disneyland's closure happen early, not out of the blue.

We all know WDW will wait past the point of no return and SM will end up offline for 2+ years. I'm really surprised that they don't ORDER the track now and simply stuff it in a warehouse until ready to do the full rebuild needed by SM.

 

[GoofGoof]

View attachment 134361

New leaked photo! Theyve changed their minds and decided to milk the Star Wars franchise and shoehorn it into Norway. It makes sense because Norway was obviously an inspiration for Tatooine because they are both on planets that orbit a larger celestial body.

They are gonna have a lot of leftover Olaf toilet seats now

 

[GoofGoof]

I am now interested in that Olaf meet and greet!

Bring some dollar bills...but no selfies allowed

 

[Timekeeper]

Disney knew the track at Disneyland would eventually fail and hoped they would close the attraction before it could no longer be repaired (they were wrong and it broke first). Disney similarly knows that the track in Florida cannot last forever. Waiting for the point of no return could mean waiting a year for new track to be manufactured. Disneyland's closure happen early, not out of the blue.

This reminds me of the common experience of having to buy a new car to replace an existing one. A lot of people don't go car shopping until they have no other choice because their existing car no longer works. Anyone who has been in that situation understands the stress of needing to quickly find a replacement. That's not the ideal situation to be in when making such a large financial investment. While accidents are not predictable, other mechanical failures due to age are often reasonably foreseeable and one would be better situated to plan ahead and not have to panic and scramble in a pinch.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

Disney knew the track at Disneyland would eventually fail and hoped they would close the attraction before it could no longer be repaired (they were wrong and it broke first). Disney similarly knows that the track in Florida cannot last forever. Waiting for the point of no return could mean waiting a year for new track to be manufactured. Disneyland's closure happen early, not out of the blue.

Oh, I'm aware of that. Nonetheless, they had no choice but to close it when they did. The point still stands that it was neglected to the point of failure. Hopefully the same won't happen to our coaster, especially during operation. Circa 2007/08 when I was in TL Ops, it was in pretty scary shape. I can't imagine how bad it is now.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Oh, I'm aware of that. Nonetheless, they had no choice but to close it when they did. The point still stands that it was neglected to the point of failure. Hopefully the same won't happen to our coaster, especially during operation. Circa 2007/08 when I was in TL Ops, it was in pretty scary shape. I can't imagine how bad it is now.

I think your wording is misleading. Saying the track was "neglected to the point of failure" suggests it came as a complete surprise and that the replacement plan was not underway.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

I think your wording is misleading. Saying the track was "neglected to the point of failure" suggests it came as a complete surprise and that the replacement plan was not underway.

I more mean that it should not have ever gotten to that point. Regular maintenance should have prevented a catastrophic failure. Disneyland's dismal maintenance in the late 90s and early 00s (along with the deaths and injuries that it caused) is hardly a secret.

Besides, is it really better that they knew it was on the verge of (literally) collapsing and kept running it anyways. They got quite lucky that what happened didn't happen during the operating day.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I more mean that it should not have ever gotten to that point. Regular maintenance should have prevented a catastrophic failure. Disneyland's dismal maintenance in the late 90s and early 00s (along with the deaths and injuries that it caused) is hardly a secret.

Besides, is it really better that they knew it was on the verge of (literally) collapsing and kept running it anyways. They got quite lucky that what happened didn't happen during the operating day.

Space Mountain's issues were not just related to maintenance but also the stress of adding on-board audio.

Any case of ride equipment being replaced during a scheduled downtime means such a decision was made. The necessary lead times means that Disney knew Big Thunder Mountain Railroad needed to be replaced at least a year before the attraction closed.