No Segways, theme parks tell disabled

[DMC-12]

Well look at it this way, If an Epcot Manager runs you over with their segway, Disney is responsible. Say a guest does that to another guest? Does this make it a vehicular accident, with OCSO or even FHP with investigative juristiction? Who's held accountable? Disney? The guest?

Its just a huge can of worms. I have enough trouble dealing with my feet not getting run over by grandma who thought it would be fun to put Timmy on her lap and let him drive.

So, summed up, an ECV is a medical device. A segway is a street legal mode of motorized transportation.

Dave, you make a great point.. but this just strikes a nerve with me.

A couple of epcot managers have come close to side swiping me with a segway, as they zoom through world showcase.

In a fair world I would say, whats good for the goose.... is good for the gander.... no managers on segaways when the park is open. :fork::shrug:

 

[mkt]

A segway is not an approved medical device. An ecv is.

But Dave, who is to define that? I'm almost certain that an appeal to the ADA could be made to classify the Segway as a medical device which would then force Disney to allow them in the parks. Disney doesn't decide whats medical and what's not.

AWell look at it this way, If an Epcot Manager runs you over with their segway, Disney is responsible. Say a guest does that to another guest? Does this make it a vehicular accident, with OCSO or even FHP with investigative juristiction? Who's held accountable? Disney? The guest?

What if I get ran over by an ECV? Who's responsible then? They allow privately owned ECV's in, then they should allow Segways in. At least the Segway has a smaller footprint and is considerably easier to maneuver. Disney is accepting the same amount of liability with either one in the park.

So, summed up, an ECV is a medical device.

It can be

A segway is a street legal mode of motorized transportation.

Not a chance.

 

[Monty]

Ok..... so the disabled vet cant ride one in the park.... but the fat epcot manager can? Lovely. :hammer:

My answer is no. The Epcot manager shouldn't be allowed to ride one either. That's where Disney's argument falls apart. To suggest that a disabled individual who has his own Segway for mobility assistance can't use it because he's "not trained", but a manager or trinket salesperson can is ridiculous. Any disabled person with their own is likely to be more agile and better accustomed to their machine than someone who only uses it on occasion at work. I have seen a few near-misses with staff that use them in the parks.

The most important aspect of the article is the battery concern. A Segway, even with the larger battery that is available, could not spend the entire day in the parks doing what I normally do without the battery dying. That is a far more significant issue. One of those things becomes a very unwieldy, heavy burden when the battery dies. How would a physically-impaired guest manage?

 

[DMC-12]

The most important aspect of the article is the battery concern. A Segway, even with the larger battery that is available, could not spend the entire day in the parks doing what I normally do without the battery dying. That is a far more significant issue. One of those things becomes a very unwieldy, heavy burden when the battery dies. How would a physically-impaired guest manage?

That sort of doesnt make sense to me... doesnt the segway have a standard 20 mile span on a full charge?

Although they're ideal for short jaunts, Segway PTs can travel as far as 24 miles/38 km on a single battery charge, depending on terrain, payload, and riding style.

http://www.segway.com/individual/learn-how-works.php

So I think the battery argument is a very poor one as well. I'm just saying, Monty (not a personal attack on you).

I mean... I think I might cover a couple/few miles in one day. Parking lot > front gate > all of future world > walk through WS maybe one and a half times... and that might equal 3 miles. :shrug:

 

[GymLeaderPhil]

Those of you who feel comfortable allowing any guest to come into the parks going 15 mph down a walkway should feel comfortable allowing those same guests to operate the Astro Orbiter. After all they both can operate at a speed of 15 mph. What would be the difference in liability since in both situations those guests would not proper training or insurance to operate either? By forcing guests to have proper credentials to ride the Segways in the park (ala Dive Quest at The Seas) would require extra leg work (no pun intended) and a higher insurance premium for Disney itself.

The walkways and queues at Disney parks are not designed for Segways. Epcot has the blessing of size unlike most other parks. Has anyone seen the amount of crowd control used during parades with floats running a fraction of the speed a Segway could move? Allowing a Segway to roll at top speed down Main Street could be equal to or faster than The Headless Horseman in Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Party depending upon the model.

Disney Transportation is not able to adequately allow Segways on board it's Busses, Monorails, and Small Watercraft. In fact the only accessible mode of transportation for a Segway would be the Ferryboats that run across the Seven Seas Lagoon.

Furthermore Disney barely has ample room for stroller/ECV/wheelchair parking within it's eleven theme parks. Has anyone seen Fantasyland on a peak day where the front of Mickey's Philharmagic has a berm full of strollers?

Do we want a vehicle that encourages those who do not have a valid disability to be renting one?

AmericaWalks.org goes into detail on pedestrian Segway usage:

What are the concerns and objections to the Segway being treated as a pedestrian?

• The impact of collisions with pedestrians
• The impact of collisions between Segway users (especially operating in limited space)
• The threat and discomfort felt by pedestrians which may discourage walking and use of sidewalks
• Competition for already limited space on the sidewalk
• Likelihood of crashes between Segway users and motorists (the two most common causes of bicycle/motor vehicle crashes are wrong-way riding and riding on the sidewalk, both of which the Segway would presumably be doing)
• This sets a precedent for other motorized vehicles such as scooters which may be even less appropriate to use on sidewalks
• There is no way to enforce speed limits set by state/Federal law
• The speed governing mechanism on the Segway can be easily over-ridden
• We have no research on the operating characteristics of the vehicle or the rider
• The social justice impacts of allowing an expensive device available to a limited population to dominate public space
• Sidewalks have been designed for use at walking speeds, not "three times faster than normal walking speed"
• What happens where sidewalks don't exist or come to a stop and the road has speeds in excess of 25mph?

They go on to state that "Nothing that moves faster than walking speed belongs in the space intended for walking."

John S. Allen's BikeExprt.com compares the Segway to a bike:

The Segway, with it's odd side-by-side wheel configuration and computerized auto-balancing, has a "gee whiz" factor, but it travels at speeds similar to those of a bicycle and poses similar risks -- except that Segway is heavier, can not turn as sharply when traveling at speed, and can not negotiate sideslopes as a bicycle can. I have addressed the maneuvering characteristics of the Segway in a PowerPoint presentation which I gave at the 2002 Pro-Bike conference. There is a very detailed presentation on the Segway's maneuvering characteristics on the humantransport.org Web site.

The Uniform Vehicle Code, the model for traffic law in the United States, defines bicycles as vehicles. The Uniform Vehicle Code is amended by a cumbersome committee process. It has nothing yet to say about the Segway.

Another great site to check out on this matter is segwaydisabled.blogspot.com. Bill Brunton goes into incredible detail explaining why Ontario legislature is flawed by classifying the Segway as a Electric Personal Assistance Mobility Devices (EPAMD’s.)

 

[Testtrack321]

The iBot spent 5 years going through approvals (that the company paid for and tried to get). The Segway is a consumer product, and the company did not design it for the disabled, and as such, will not approve it as a medical device.

End of discussion. People are reading too much into this, Disney can use Segways,regular people cannot

 

[Hook's Girl]

My answer is no. The Epcot manager shouldn't be allowed to ride one either. That's where Disney's argument falls apart. To suggest that a disabled individual who has his own Segway for mobility assistance can't use it because he's "not trained", but a manager or trinket salesperson can is ridiculous. Any disabled person with their own is likely to be more agile and better accustomed to their machine than someone who only uses it on occasion at work. I have seen a few near-misses with staff that use them in the parks.

The most important aspect of the article is the battery concern. A Segway, even with the larger battery that is available, could not spend the entire day in the parks doing what I normally do without the battery dying. That is a far more significant issue. One of those things becomes a very unwieldy, heavy burden when the battery dies. How would a physically-impaired guest manage?

Most managers who are Segway trained ride Segways everday, not just on occasion. Disney also requires a full day of specialized Segway training before a Cast Member can ride it on property while working. So not just anyone jumps on a Segway and rides it around.

 

[rainfully]

I know this might sound crazy, but if someone can use a Segway, why can't I use roller skates, or a skateboard? I get a little tired walking sometimes... I can get places faster with skates which would help me out a lot...

Where will we draw the line at which mobility devices are okay?

What about Heeleys???? Just sayin'...

 

[DMC-12]

What about Heeleys???? Just sayin'...

Ugh... another annoyance of mine. :fork::lol:

Well... at least Epcot managers are not coasting around on heeleys...:lol:

I think those should be banned to. :fork:

Kids will be kids and the majority of them on Heeleys do behave. But when you have a rogue child running over you and your mother, on the exit ramp from CoP... and the parents & kid obviously dont give a damn... well... then they (Heeleys) need to be banned to.

 

[takeleus]

I have seen people hit by the motorized wheel chairs and a 5 year old run over by a speeding Segway in the parks. My personal opinion is that the Segways should be banned because your reaction time to stop going that speed is greatly reduced.

Here's a simple example. Suppose a person is driving a Segway at 12 mph (17.6 feet/sec) during the day on a dry, level road. He sees a pedestrian and brings the Segway to a stop. Suppose the reaction time is .7 seconds. Then it will take 12.3ft to stop.
The driver is alert and aware of the good possibility that braking will be necessary. This is the absolute best reaction time possible. The best estimate is 0.7 second. Of this, 0.5 is perception and 0.2 is movement.

Now figure this on a 5 MPh wheel chair. The reaction time to stop is 2.4 times quicker.

I do not personally like Segway's and feel that they have no place where the crowds are a dense as they are at Disney.

 

[Monty]

That sort of doesnt make sense to me... doesnt the segway have a standard 20 mile span on a full charge?

Although they're ideal for short jaunts, Segway PTs can travel as far as 24 miles/38 km on a single battery charge, depending on terrain, payload, and riding style.

http://www.segway.com/individual/learn-how-works.php

So I think the battery argument is a very poor one as well. I'm just saying, Monty (not a personal attack on you).

I mean... I think I might cover a couple/few miles in one day. Parking lot > front gate > all of future world > walk through WS maybe one and a half times... and that might equal 3 miles. :shrug:

No personal attack considered...

While it'll go "as far as" 24 miles, that is presumably driving it practically non-stop with minimal load. Using it in Disney, it would be turned on for a large portion of the day and stopping and starting frequently. I could see a fully-charged Segway running out over the course of a full day, but who's to say it'll be fully charged when it arrives? Regardless its range, if it does run out during the day, it could present a problem.

Most managers who are Segway trained ride Segways everday, not just on occasion. Disney also requires a full day of specialized Segway training before a Cast Member can ride it on property while working. So not just anyone jumps on a Segway and rides it around.

Being "trained" for a full day and riding while at work cannot be compared to owning one and using it as your primary mode of transportation as a disabled individual for whom it provides the freedom to move.

Understand me, I don't think anyone should be driving them in the parks, a two-year-old can deviate from their course in a heartbeat and no-one no matter how accomplished or trained they are could avoid them at the speeds these machines travel.

 

[PhotoDave219]

But Dave, who is to define that? I'm almost certain that an appeal to the ADA could be made to classify the Segway as a medical device which would then force Disney to allow them in the parks. Disney doesn't decide whats medical and what's not.

Youre right, the Food and Drug administration classifies that stuff ( i think). And a segway is pretty far from that.

 

[DisneyGigi]

So many people abuse even the ECVs and use them just to be able to scoot around without walking. I know this is a sore subject but if it were only allowed for those that truly needed them it would be different. IMHO

 

[DisneyMusician2]

This is certainly an interesting one.

I don't think anything that moves faster than walking speed should belong in the parks.

I also think that there should be some sort of approval process for those looking to bring those devices into the parks. Maybe there is a way to restrict their speed....

Anyway, if you are run over with an ECV or similar device, that person should be held personally responsible. I know a few wheelchair confined people, and I think most would be OK with some restrictions under the crowded conditions of Disney.

 

[DMC-12]

I also think that there should be some sort of approval process for those looking to bring those devices into the parks. Maybe there is a way to restrict their speed....

There is a way I believe. There are certain hard coded keys (available from Segway)... which govern top speed.

 

[mkt]

Youre right, the Food and Drug administration classifies that stuff ( i think). And a segway is pretty far from that.

I believe you're correct, but the Department of Justice (as the agency that oversees the Americans with Disabilities Act) and the Department of the Inetior (which enforces the ADA in regards to Parks and Recreation) should have quite a bit of clout in regulations pertaining to this.

I mean, their regulations have made it virtually illegal to question anyone about a disability under normal circumstances. Service animals can't be questioned, so perhaps a service instrument (apparatus, tool, provision, device mechanism, tool?) could fall under the same protection.

 

[DisneyMusician2]

There is a way I believe. There are certain hard coded keys (available from Segway)... which govern top speed.

Interesting. If Disney could implement some sort of mandatory "governor" for segways and ECV's entering the parks, I wouldn't have a problem with any of them being around where I was.

 

[DisneySaint]

Allowing guests to use Segways would be the worst decision any theme park could ever make. I've been on 3 tours already and two of the three times someone fell. And even IF you get some expert driver, you'll have toddlers and ECV's shooting out in front of them all the time.

 

[DMC-12]

Allowing guests to use Segways would be the worst decision any theme park could ever make.

Agreed... but I defend the right for disabled people to be allowed to use them in the parks. If in fact... that is the said disabled persons main mode of getting around. Which is what this vet was using, as his main mode of getting around.

If speed is an issue... then change the key... no big deal.

 

[CBOMB]

I'm very confused by this thread. Do some of you folks want to ban Segway's when being used for medical reasons or do you want to ban people who want to use them as a recreational vehicle in the park. If we are talking about the same type that Disney employees ride around on I can see your concern. People seem to be concerned about the speed of 12 mph. Can segways only travel at 12 mph. I have a car that will go 150 mph. That does not mean I go that fast. Laws, and regulations should help to control that, with segways also. Inexperience drivers could be a problem. I would suggest that WDW should not try to grab a piece of the action by renting them out. If a person owns one of these things I would bet they know how to use it, and how far they can get on it, with a single charge. If they don't shame on them. I am all for giving disabled folks a chance to be like everyone else in the parks. Being at eye level seems to me a step in the right directions. I think Disney can fight a delaying battle on this, but in the long run they will loose, while getting bad publicity. Disabled people are not so tolerant of discrimination like they were forced to accept for way to long.