No 5th gate but...

[gsimpson]

I am not saying that there is a 5th gate right over the horizon or anything as bold as that and I haven't heard anything from anyone, no CMs and no Monorail drivers but...

Unless I have been misreading press releases between now and 2009 Disney has announced plans for 4000-5000 moderate and value rooms as part of the western expansion, some unamed number of timeshares as part of the same expansion, another 1200 rooms as part of the 4 seasons, Contermporary and AK DVC (another 2000 rooms?), Hilton is building another 2000 rooms in the form of a Waldorf and a Hilton suites, the Ritz-Carlton chain is building another 1000 rooms (yes I know they and Hilton are not Disney, but business people tend not to act in a vacuum), Marriot is adding another building the the Marriot World Center, Disney is putting up the last phase of the Saratogo Springs DVC, and finally although not directly related to room count the one of my friends (not a preferred source I know) says that Orlando airport has announced construction of a new batch of gates. I have a question. Where are all these people who stay in these thousands of rooms going to be during the day? Does anyone happen to know if room building came before or after new park openings in the past?

 

[CheriBibi]

Just my thoughts but :
All the DVC adding has nothing to do with expectation of attendance, they just found a great way to cash in several years of Walt Disney World staying in the same time. The familly pays upfront what they woud or would not pay Disney in several years of occasional visits. You build as many DVC as you want and selling those memberships immedialty make tons of money right at the end of the construction, instead of having to wait years of operation. (Now that'll be a mess in 20 years but, i leave that for the future)

And for all the hotels, Hilton just wants its share by accomodating high rollers in a luxury resort in the Disney World while being away from the Disney World.

Resorts are less risky investments than parks, so i wouldn't see any new big gate coming ahead solely based on their greedy resort extension. Actually i'll even start to hope for a new resort when AK and MGM turns into three meals parks...

 

[Scar Junior]

Interesting point. I've wondered about this before.

Unfortunately much of the past is not an indicator of whether or not any significant expansion is on the way. It wasn't until the late 80s - early 90s that the company decided to earn vast amounts of revenue from building hotels. The book 'Disney War' has some great info on this part of the company's history.

 

[gsimpson]

That is a great book, gives a lot of insight.

The argument that the DVC units I believe is only partially valid, the rooms are still part of the resorts overall inventory. I don't off the top of my head recall a time when they had 3 DVC resorts under construction at one time (final phase of SS, Contemporary, and AK). Completely ignoring the DVC question, what about all the rooms in the western expansion?

I agree that they need to finish the existing parks, especially Disney-MGM which I cannot spend a full day in to save my life. My favorite park, Epcot, could also certainly use a couple new countries and something to replace WOL.

 

[JLW11Hi]

If they expand the amount of things to do at said parks, shouldn't that be able to accomidate some increase of guests to the resort? Like people said, some of these parks only fill up about a half of a day for many visitors. Maybe if they made MGM and AK full day parks, they'd be able to hold bigger crowds.

 

[CheriBibi]

Indeed ! Though i'm not sure adding one night to everyone's stay would need such drastic hotel expension. But that may be... Let's hope they're gonna plus AK, MGM, and EPCOT ! Placemaking would make a considerable plusing in my way of thinking.

 

[marni1971]

It`s keeping the room numbers up without spending any money themselves. If the hotel rooms can`t be filled Disney won`t be bothered, and you can be sure they have made sure it won`t impact WDW resorts bottom line. The company have plenty of options to build hotels themselves, but choose not to.

 

[The Mom]

Looking at things from an esthetic point of view, and as someone who lives in an older home that ALWAYS needs remodelling and updating, it is sometimes cheaper (as long as you already own the land) to build something from the ground up than to renovate an existing structure.

The latest round of building seems to be for more upscale rooms and more DVCs. Let's face it, hotel rooms are very different than those of the 80s and even 90s when WDW added a lot of new hotels. The current traveler expects certain amenities that are just lacking in the older rooms, or have been "tacked on" after the fact.

One brief example: cofeemakers, fridge, and microwave. These are becoming standard in motels in the US. Older hotels just throw them in anyplace; newer ones have planned for them, with a little alcove so they look nice.

As others have mentioned, the DVCs will only be a problem when the guest market drops (which could happen) or when they have a glut of them for sale, which is around 20 years from now. I suspect their plan would be to convert them to "rooms" if they can no longer sell them all. Right now, there is more demand for them (esp the 2 BR) than supply at certain resorts. This may increase even more, as there is a generation of adult children with their own children who still vacation on mom and dad's dime. (if my limited experience watching my relatives and friends is any indication) :lol:

 

[benji]

I agree. Every park in Dinsey has it's own resort area that anchors the park. Even downtown Disney has it's own resort area. So the western beltway project needs some kind of theme park or water park to anchor that area of the property. So I guess it does make you think if something big is coming to that area of the proptery in the future.

 

[Shaman]

Longterm I'm sure it is safe to assume another "gate" WILL be built (that is, if Disney continues making money)....but from what I've read and seen that's at least ten years away if not more. Maybe we'll see another water park before then....:shrug:

 

[LiveInOrlando]

The Marriott World Center is adding a ballroom, not hotel rooms. And the Ritz Carlton is not adding another 1000 rooms, they don't even have 1000 rooms now.

 

[Shaman]

The Marriott World Center is adding a ballroom, not hotel rooms. And the Ritz Carlton is not adding another 1000 rooms, they don't even have 1000 rooms now.

That's what I thought. They're adding space to their convention center. Unless they build on top of the pool...where else would those rooms go?! :lol:

 

[SoFlaDisneyFan]

I think it is very safe to say that WHEN, not IF, the 5th gate is built, (it may be 10+ years, but it WILL happen one day) it will be in Western Beltway Expansion area.

 

[jmuboy]

While not a fan of the Western Beltway expansion, this area will be phased in. So if the first phase struggles to fill hotel rooms or spending is low at the stores then plans could/would be scaled back.

 

[Hummer1676]

This is a little off the subject but what is going on by Team Disney. If you get off at exit 65, i think, there are some trailers and cleared land. Is this the western beltway or is this something else. It looks to be behind Team Disney. Sorry i don't have a picture to show you.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

as someone who lives in an older home that ) :lol:

so in the former colonies thall be something over 10 years then:animwink: .

 

[The Mom]

so in the former colonies thall be something over 10 years then:animwink: .

Nah, 10 years is old by Florida standards. Mine is only about 100 years old ; ancient by FL standards, average age by New England standards, and still under the contractor's warranty by European standards.

 

[jmvd20]

Maybe all of these room are being added simply because the companies feel that they need them, and can make mmoney off of them now - not in the anticipation of another gate being built in the future.

 

[MickeyTigg]

Looking at things from an esthetic point of view, and as someone who lives in an older home that ALWAYS needs remodelling and updating, it is sometimes cheaper (as long as you already own the land) to build something from the ground up than to renovate an existing structure.

The latest round of building seems to be for more upscale rooms and more DVCs. Let's face it, hotel rooms are very different than those of the 80s and even 90s when WDW added a lot of new hotels. The current traveler expects certain amenities that are just lacking in the older rooms, or have been "tacked on" after the fact.

One brief example: cofeemakers, fridge, and microwave. These are becoming standard in motels in the US. Older hotels just throw them in anyplace; newer ones have planned for them, with a little alcove so they look nice.

As others have mentioned, the DVCs will only be a problem when the guest market drops (which could happen) or when they have a glut of them for sale, which is around 20 years from now. I suspect their plan would be to convert them to "rooms" if they can no longer sell them all. Right now, there is more demand for them (esp the 2 BR) than supply at certain resorts. This may increase even more, as there is a generation of adult children with their own children who still vacation on mom and dad's dime. (if my limited experience watching my relatives and friends is any indication) :lol:

Also...if you listen to people like Chantal Crawford, as much as Disney wants to claim the Grand Floridian as a luxury resort hotel...it's not. It's barely a 4 star resort in their minds. Travelers that want a luxury, 5-star destination are underwhelmed by what Disney has to offer.

Face it...the people that want this type of destination will spend the money to stay there if its available and will probably spend more money in the parks.

Personally, after having joined DVC...and had the extra room and extra bathroom available...staying in a hotel room, even if it's the Polynesian oar the Grand Californian is a cramped stay. Yes, I'm spoiled by DVC...I admit it, but we like it and it's our preferred way to travel to WDW now.

 

[majortom1981]

Also...if you listen to people like Chantal Crawford, as much as Disney wants to claim the Grand Floridian as a luxury resort hotel...it's not. It's barely a 4 star resort in their minds. Travelers that want a luxury, 5-star destination are underwhelmed by what Disney has to offer.

Face it...the people that want this type of destination will spend the money to stay there if its available and will probably spend more money in the parks.

Personally, after having joined DVC...and had the extra room and extra bathroom available...staying in a hotel room, even if it's the Polynesian oar the Grand Californian is a cramped stay. Yes, I'm spoiled by DVC...I admit it, but we like it and it's our preferred way to travel to WDW now.

I go every year with my gf and ehr family. They are a part of the dvc. That extra space does rock .Especially the kitchen. There is nothing better then whipping up your own breakfast before heading out to the parks