NextGen CIT (Central Intelligence Thread)

[mousehockey37]

A lot of the nextgen posts focus on FP+ as a direct source of revenue. I have a different theory. That's all it is, no basis in fact at all. I think Disney will use FP+ as the bait to get consumers more deeply tied to the next gen system. Information is what Disney needs. They need you to stay on property. They need you to charge to your room or link your RFID tag to your credit card. They need to know who you are traveling with and how you plan your days. FP+ is the currency to get you to give up this info in a way that's usable to them.

How many people think that charging to your room is a good thing? I don't and I won't even for an extra fastpass every day. I bet a lot of folks would change their minds about it for a fastpass though. Fastpass has become the driver behind the "How to visit Disney" online machine. Making it part of the ticketing structure, making it easier to figure out ahead of time and then linking "better" or more fastpasses to becoming more closely tied to Disney's computer systems keeps the illusion of "Free FP" vs Universal's paid pass while at the same time giving Disney easier to mine data.

My thoughts are close to yours. I can just imagine that there is going to be one big database that is going to record all of this information. It'll look like an itinerary crossed with a checkbook.

Jones Family June 9, 2013
7:00am CR breakfast ordered _________ at $_______
9:07am MK front gate guest scanned in
9:09am MK guest FP for Mickey MeetGreet
9:10am MK guest Confectionary purchase _____ for $_____
9:20am MK guest scans for POTC
and this would just continue for the entire day, week, etc... All the data collected from the solid expenditures (rooms and tickets) all the way down to flexible arbitrary purchases (food, souvenirs). They'll be able to go in and identify the people that vacation with and without dining plans or just those who leave, go back to their resorts and make their own food, and zero in and possibly even reach out to guests and ask them, why do you do that?

 

[GoofGoof]

Not positive but I think we have an ongoing NextGen thread with 536,753,000 replies.

536,000,000 of those posts are just people saying how much they hate FP+. There has to be more to next gen than FP+ for $1.5B.

 

[ParentsOf4]

A lot of the nextgen posts focus on FP+ as a direct source of revenue. I have a different theory. That's all it is, no basis in fact at all. I think Disney will use FP+ as the bait to get consumers more deeply tied to the next gen system. Information is what Disney needs.

I suggest you read the following post:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/nextgen-deep-impact.857159/page-2#post-5244711

It contains my theory on how NextGen generates additional revenue and reduces operational expenditures, without explicitly charging for NextGen.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

536,000,000 of those posts are just people saying how much they hate FP+. There has to be more to next gen than FP+ for $1.5B.

There is. It's just that 99% of it isn't visible to guests. FP+ is the largest, most guest-impacting change currently public about NextGen. Unfortunately, the response to it has been hardly positive. Most of what NextGen consists of is behind the scenes, that's why most of the posts are complaints about FP+. There will likely be other elements that come into limelight soon, but for now, FP+ is really all there is to it. That and the Magic Band.

 

[mousehockey37]

There is. It's just that 99% of it isn't visible to guests. FP+ is the largest, most guest-impacting change currently public about NextGen. Unfortunately, the response to it has been hardly positive. Most of what NextGen consists of is behind the scenes, that's why most of the posts are complaints about FP+. There will likely be other elements that come into limelight soon, but for now, FP+ is really all there is to it. That and the Magic Band.

Like I said, it's Big Brother playing RollerCoaster Tycoon!!!

 

[Rasvar]

My thoughts are close to yours. I can just imagine that there is going to be one big database that is going to record all of this information. It'll look like an itinerary crossed with a checkbook.

Jones Family June 9, 2013
7:00am CR breakfast ordered _________ at $_______
9:07am MK front gate guest scanned in
9:09am MK guest FP for Mickey MeetGreet
9:10am MK guest Confectionary purchase _____ for $_____
9:20am MK guest scans for POTC
and this would just continue for the entire day, week, etc... All the data collected from the solid expenditures (rooms and tickets) all the way down to flexible arbitrary purchases (food, souvenirs). They'll be able to go in and identify the people that vacation with and without dining plans or just those who leave, go back to their resorts and make their own food, and zero in and possibly even reach out to guests and ask them, why do you do that?

It goes beyond this. The wristbands don't require scanning. They are 802.11 equipped. All of the APs are georeferenced. Enough AP coverage (something that would need further expansion) would allow a positional triangulation with good precision. They could know exactly what display you are standing next to and send a special message or discount to a display on it that only corresponds to you. Now, this functionality is not in the original system but it is a very feasible and appealing expansion if the first phase works out. But the 802.11 will be key for personalized interactions in attractions so you don't have to keep scanning all the time.

 

[ParentsOf4]

536,000,000 of those posts are just people saying how much they hate FP+. There has to be more to next gen than FP+ for $1.5B.

Yes and I think your earlier post does a nice job of enumerating many of the RFID components of NextGen. From a cost perspective, I suspect things such as the new WDW webpage are lumped into the NextGen budget, almost certainly WiFi in the parks, as well as a large number of behind-the-scenes software/hardware infrastructure changes to support NextGen.

 

[mousehockey37]

It goes beyond this. The wristbands don't require scanning. They are 802.11 equipped. All of the APs are georeferenced. Enough AP coverage (something that would need further expansion) would allow a positional triangulation with good precision. They could know exactly what display you are standing next to and send a special message or discount to a display on it that only corresponds to you. Now, this functionality is not in the original system but it is a very feasible and appealing expansion if the first phase works out. But the 802.11 will be key for personalized interactions in attractions so you don't have to keep scanning all the time.

BINGO!!! They'll know EVERYTHING about your stay.

 

[Rasvar]

BINGO!!! They'll know EVERYTHING about your stay.

I'm actually waiting for them to figure out my preferred Disney Music and have the urinal I am standing at play that song while I'm taking a wizz. If they manage to do that, I give up on trying to hide from the system.

PS. If it plays IASWAA, I will smash that urinal.

 

[kittybubbles]

These are just some guesses on how they can use the system:

While EMHs still exist, tickets can be scanned or held up to a Mickey head as opposed to a CM trying to visually read the card, this should be more efficient and stop folks from flashing old room keys.

It would be technically possible to get ride of the 'white vans' at all the bus stops as the system should be able to read how many guest are waiting on which busses, I could see them helping guest a bit by having an APP that let's you know (approximently) when the next bus will be arriving.

I could see a future when more features are sold a la carte as they could sell tickets that did not include any rides or half day tickets (dependent on how many RF readers are around and how they are used).

I also feel Disney might be able to control the flow of rides a bit better. Folks with a smart phone, Disney knowing where they are in the park due to the RF signal, Disney might be able to tell them that Space Mtn is/was down and they would like to let them ride Jungle Cruse now if they can move their Space FP+ out an hour or two.

Anyway, I have no idea what all will come with this, but am just trying to think of ways it could have been sold to get the budget approved...

 

[mousehockey37]

I'm actually waiting for them to figure out my preferred Disney Music and have the urinal I am standing at play that song while I'm taking a wizz. If they manage to do that, I give up on trying to hide from the system.

PS. If it plays IASWAA, I will smash that urinal.

Or if I get back to my resort and Can you feel the love tonight? comes on... hmmm, what do they think I'll be doing?

 

[BigThunderMatt]

I also feel Disney might be able to control the flow of rides a bit better. Folks with a smart phone, Disney knowing where they are in the park due to the RF signal, Disney might be able to tell them that Space Mtn is/was down and they would like to let them ride Jungle Cruse now if they can move their Space FP+ out an hour or two.

This is one of the features.

 

[mousehockey37]

Getting back on track though, we as consumers are only seeing the surface of this. We are seeing what Disney wants us to see.

They're going to hide the parts that are shady (aka, tracking your purchases, where you are, etc). They're going to claim that it's going to make for a better tomorrow in the parks, but will it?

 

[mousehockey37]

These are just some guesses on how they can use the system:

While EMHs still exist, tickets can be scanned or held up to a Mickey head as opposed to a CM trying to visually read the card, this should be more efficient and stop folks from flashing old room keys.

It would be technically possible to get ride of the 'white vans' at all the bus stops as the system should be able to read how many guest are waiting on which busses, I could see them helping guest a bit by having an APP that let's you know (approximently) when the next bus will be arriving.

I could see a future when more features are sold a la carte as they could sell tickets that did not include any rides or half day tickets (dependent on how many RF readers are around and how they are used).

I also feel Disney might be able to control the flow of rides a bit better. Folks with a smart phone, Disney knowing where they are in the park due to the RF signal, Disney might be able to tell them that Space Mtn is/was down and they would like to let them ride Jungle Cruse now if they can move their Space FP+ out an hour or two.

Anyway, I have no idea what all will come with this, but am just trying to think of ways it could have been sold to get the budget approved...

I don't know about you, but I don't want someone sending me messages (texting rates WILL apply) while I'm on vacation to tell me what rides they want me to go on.

The apps they have now are already capable of showing that rides are down. Disney may be able track me, but I'll be the one who decides what I actually do.

 

[John]

LOL. You know I've been obsessing over NextGen in general and FP+ in particular lately, trying to make financial sense of it. We make fun of Disney executives but they have a great deal of business savvy, even if they don't care too much what their "guests" think, mostly what their "guests" pay. Based on that cynical view of their motives, it's possible to hypothesize what FP+ will become and how this will impact WDW vacationers. So far, it's not been fun; I've not found too many rays of sunshine, mostly rain instead.

However, I do think people who prefer paying more for onsite hotel rooms and like having their vacations preplanned for them will like FP+. Many people already have posted on this forum that they are looking forward to this. Let's see if they still like it once we find out how WDW will distribute the "good" FP+ for attractions such as Peter Pan, Space Mountain, Soarin', TSM, etc. It's simply supply-and-demand. Everyone will want the "good" FP+ but there are limited numbers. Most people will be disappointed.

I agree, and with the people that have tested FP+.....dosnt represent what the system will do when we have full blown roll out. Meaning what is represented is not a representation of how the system will operate opened to all guest There is no way they can set a scenario that will represent tens of thousands of guest wanting the same FP at the same time. Its all warm and fuzzy now. Maybe that is the intent, to get positive reviews.....change the intial perception. You have done a fantastic job, I honestly am hoping for the best. We have little choice, it is atleast going to be around for the very near future.

On another sidenote: How many TA's have been getting questions from clients about NG ? I am worried sick over this onslaught. I havnt recieved not one, which to me is an indication that the general masses have no clue that this is about to be rolled out....Its Its actually kind of disturbing. When will some type of marketing campaign/education program begin?

 

[GoofGoof]

I'm actually waiting for them to figure out my preferred Disney Music and have the urinal I am standing at play that song while I'm taking a wizz. If they manage to do that, I give up on trying to hide from the system.

PS. If it plays IASWAA, I will smash that urinal.

When I traveled a lot more frequently I had a Wyndham frequent traveler account. They asked you for stuff like your favorite beer when you signed up. When I checked in they always had a few cold beers in an ice bucket in my room. It was pretty cool. I haven't stayed at a Wyndham in a while so I don't know if they still do it. I think I read somewhere that they would be asking for preferences like favorite characters with this system. I assume they could in theory do something positive with the info. Maybe they will ask for songs too, but I can't promise anything.

 

[Rasvar]

On another sidenote: How many TA's have been getting questions from clients about NG ? I am worried sick over this onslaught. I havnt recieved not one, which to me is an indication that the general masses have no clue that this is about to be rolled out....Its Its actually kind of disturbing. When will some type of marketing campaign/education program begin?

One reason why I suspect official live date won't happen until closer to June right now. For this system to work, Disney has to start a full marketing campaign for it. If it is going to work right, it will need a four to six month lead time. If they felt like it was close to being ready, I would not be surprised if there is a public announcement in the next week or so. I think the park infrastructure is ready but the back end support systems are still not ready to go. It is a complex coding project. Once they decide to flip the switch, the servers are going to have to deal with a full time onslaught. They aren't ready for that yet.

 

[mousehockey37]

When I traveled a lot more frequently I had a Wyndham frequent traveler account. They asked you for stuff like your favorite beer when you signed up. When I checked in they always had a few cold beers in an ice bucket in my room. It was pretty cool. I haven't stayed at a Wyndham in a while so I don't know if they still do it. I think I read somewhere that they would be asking for preferences like favorite characters with this system. I assume they could in theory do something positive with the info. Maybe they will ask for songs too, but I can't promise anything.

That's not something "Magical" at that point.

My definition of something "Magical" at Disney is when you are in the right place, at the right time and you don't ask for it, it just happens.

Getting your "favorites" information is kinda cheating and doesn't seem very "Magical" to me.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

They will also know if you have eaten and if not spam your SmartPhone with discounts to the closest available restaurant. But I would imagine that if you are not hungry this would get annoying as they get more persistent with their offers.
Then they start spamming your phone with on ride photos of the ride you just got off of with a "Tap Now To Purchase" option. Of course, knowing Disney's attention to accuracy, it would a picture of someone elses family.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

I agree, and with the people that have tested FP+.....dosnt represent what the system will do when we have full blown roll out.

This is the problem with Disney research in general. Anybody that has taken a basic stats class knows that with the amount of people that visit WDW over the course of a year versus how many people Disney actually surveys on a daily basis or has take part in these tests is far from what would be considered a statistically significant sample size.

It always amazes me when over the course of a week they take the opinion of about 25 guests and cite the average as the overall opinion of all guests who have visited that week. That's absolutely ludicrous. How could you possibly equate that as an average from such a small sampling?