News and observations from the past month

[Tom Morrow]

Here's the situation:

with paper Fastpasses, it only takes a split second to verify it's validity and take it from the guest. With magic bands, it takes a good 3-5 seconds per band, longer for kids and others who don't understand how to do it right. With more and more people having magic bands, and with the goal being keeping the Fastpass line at a minimum, it means that sometimes not enough guests are getting past the Fastpass/standbymerge point to actually put on the ride due to the longer time it takes to scan the magic bands.

 

[Bairstow]

Here's the situation:

with paper Fastpasses, it only takes a split second to verify it's validity and take it from the guest. With magic bands, it takes a good 3-5 seconds per band, longer for kids and others who don't understand how to do it right. With more and more people having magic bands, and with the goal being keeping the Fastpass line at a minimum, it means that sometimes not enough guests are getting past the Fastpass/standbymerge point to actually put on the ride due to the longer time it takes to scan the magic bands.

Having used the band, and watched children use the band, I don't think this is the case.
This might have been true before Disney began enforcing fastpass return times recently, but now it takes just as long for a CM to read the time on a ticket as it does for her to watch 2 guests hold their bands up the scanner. Remember that the fastpass return scanners don't require thumbprint scans.

Even if it were true, any delays here simply won't make any difference because of the buffer queues built into the various attraction queues before and after merge points.

 

[ford91exploder]

I get the issue with 20 standby people in an hour at Soarin'. But in that case the ride was still full right? Probably a case of over distributing FP. I just can't see the benefit of letting ride vehicles run empty while guests wait in the standby line. Who does it benefit?

It benefits the 'Metrics' people as it 'Proves' their self fufilling prophecies, I've worked for Government a couple of times in my career because I was offered a interesting project, I've run away screaming each time because of non-sensical dictates from some bean counter which run counter to the mission of the organization and Disney is no different.

Key example was attempting to move a major call center to VoIP, This got squashed because there was a 'guaranteed revenue' contract with a wiring contractor who's annual bill was close to the CAPEX needed to replace analog phones with VoIP phones. In the real world the contractor would have been told the gravy train stops here. The worst thing about this call center was it's location constrained it's growth but because of analog lines it could not be moved. whereas with VoIP phones could have been placed anywhere network connectivity existed.

 

[GoofGoof]

It benefits the 'Metrics' people as it 'Proves' their self fufilling prophecies

I've said this before, I don't see Disney using this system to be punitive. I don't think they will intentionally let empty ride vehicles run through just because the metrics say they should have X number of FP riders per hour. This id just my opinion but when people in the standby line see all of the empty seats there would be a problem.

I can see an issue if the ride capacity is reduced for a maintenance issue and you already have X number of people reserved for an hour. If the X number exceeds capacity you can't keep up even if you let no standby riders in. Think of a ride like Soarin. No idea how that will be addressed, but it probably happens now with enforced return times.

 

[rael ramone]

Ah, Grasshopper you are missing the point, With FP+ the FP line is the primary line and if TDO says that X FP+ queue members are to be admitted before allowing Y standby members, Well then the CM's do what they are told or they get their walking papers.

At this point it does not matter what the respective queue lengths are since the model is now 'strict priority' it means that if capacity in the primary queue is unused no other queues are allowed to use the unallocated capacity.

This can be seen in what happened at Soarin' last week when one of the other members was in standby line which only took 20 people in an HOUR of waiting. This suggests that indeed a strict priority model is in use.

Deliberately. Reducing. Capacity.

Wow.

(but lines are longer property wide so of course it's more popular ).

Is this dumb? Of course. Does this show outright contempt for their guests? Again, yes.

And if the return times start at rope drop as some have suggested?

The days of 'walkon standby' on the attractions cursed with FPminus could be dead. Regardless of popularity. Time of day. Time of year. And ability to mechanically handle capacity.

Waiting 45 minutes for Figment at 9am midweek in the 2nd week of Sept. could be in the cards...

As could installing rope switchbacks outside.....guest relations...

 

[muteki]

Ah, Grasshopper you are missing the point, With FP+ the FP line is the primary line and if TDO says that X FP+ queue members are to be admitted before allowing Y standby members, Well then the CM's do what they are told or they get their walking papers.

At this point it does not matter what the respective queue lengths are since the model is now 'strict priority' it means that if capacity in the primary queue is unused no other queues are allowed to use the unallocated capacity.

This can be seen in what happened at Soarin' last week when one of the other members was in standby line which only took 20 people in an HOUR of waiting. This suggests that indeed a strict priority model is in use.

The "primary line" has always been (or at least, for quite some time) the fastpass line. This is not a FP+/FP- thing, it has been that way for a while for the major attractions.

Even with old standard FP the split at merge was 80/20 FP or higher. Not saying this is right/acceptable/not crazy that is just how they are told to run it.

FP reduces standby capacity. It does not reduce overall capacity (unless they are running empty cars, as previously stated).

 

[ford91exploder]

I've said this before, I don't see Disney using this system to be punitive. I don't think they will intentionally let empty ride vehicles run through just because the metrics say they should have X number of FP riders per hour. This id just my opinion but when people in the standby line see all of the empty seats there would be a problem.

I can see an issue if the ride capacity is reduced for a maintenance issue and you already have X number of people reserved for an hour. If the X number exceeds capacity you can't keep up even if you let no standby riders in. Think of a ride like Soarin. No idea how that will be addressed, but it probably happens now with enforced return times.

@GoofGoof I don't see this as a punitive move its a move to reduce attraction loading and hence reduce maintenance and staffing requirements and substantially reduce OPEX. Disney is convinced that people will come to WDW because its Disney and they don't have to DO anything to entice them to go, TDO wants a fixed number of 'First Timers' ONLY to cycle through the parks planning all their activities far in advance so TDO can deploy the minimum headcount to service those guests.

Disney is no longer a theme park company it is a media holding company and what they really want is a large mass of uncritical guests to spend a certain amount of cash per day on a predictable basis, no more, no less.

The fact that the past is littered with the ghosts of companies who tried the same thing in every industry bothers the TWDC management not at all, they are after all 'The Smartest Guys in the Room', Ghost of ENRON anyone?, another 'Smartest Guys in the Room' company.

The contrast between TWDC and Comcast could not be more stark in terms of philosophy.

 

[ford91exploder]

The "primary line" has always been (or at least, for quite some time) the fastpass line. This is not a FP+/FP- thing, it has been that way for a while for the major attractions.

Even with old standard FP the split at merge was 80/20 FP or higher. Not saying this is right/acceptable/not crazy that is just how they are told to run it.

FP reduces standby capacity. It does not reduce overall capacity (unless they are running empty cars, as previously stated).

In some cases they ARE running empty cars as FP count is below minimums, As always in business you get what you measure. Metrics are useful (otherwise why put instruments on ANYTHING) but the key is knowing WHAT to measure and why you are measuring it and how it relates to the operation of device or business.

Your speedometer is a Metric - exceed a limit and you get a ticket and your insurance becomes more expensive.

 

[muteki]

Well if what you are saying is true, that's bonkers.

Thanks Bob!

 

[COProgressFan]

@GoofGoof I don't see this as a punitive move its a move to reduce attraction loading and hence reduce maintenance and staffing requirements and substantially reduce OPEX. Disney is convinced that people will come to WDW because its Disney and they don't have to DO anything to entice them to go, TDO wants a fixed number of 'First Timers' ONLY to cycle through the parks planning all their activities far in advance so TDO can deploy the minimum headcount to service those guests.

Disney is no longer a theme park company it is a media holding company and what they really want is a large mass of uncritical guests to spend a certain amount of cash per day on a predictable basis, no more, no less.

The fact that the past is littered with the ghosts of companies who tried the same thing in every industry bothers the TWDC management not at all, they are after all 'The Smartest Guys in the Room', Ghost of ENRON anyone?, another 'Smartest Guys in the Room' company.

The contrast between TWDC and Comcast could not be more stark in terms of philosophy.

Wow, you really hit the nail on the head with this.

Great post.

 

[Bairstow]

Well if what you are saying is true,

It's not.

If Disney was actually so concerned about reducing operating costs that they were willing to operate rides at reduced capacity you wouldn't see expensive installations like Tower of Terror, Everest, and the Magic Kingdom's various Mountains operating as fast as they can run them from the first half hour the park opens and even into the evenings before the park closes, when when fastpass returns are a non-issue. Ops gets as many people through these attractions as many times as possible as Ops can manage given the technical limitations of the ride hardware, all day, every day.

To argue otherwise is demonstrably false.

 

[evilzorac]

I have sat back and read all the arguments for and against M bands & fast pass + and as a near local (2 hours away) and holder of annual passes for almost 20 yrs I am of the same mind as I was last year when I decided not to renew our passes.
My family and I will stay away until the Disney Company decides that guest experience is the focus instead of timeshares, refill mugs, bland souvenirs, and any other way to fleece the rubes for everything they have. It is sad, I have always loved this company but enough is enough. I will continue to lurk at this site and other Disney news venues in the hopes that something changes but as of now no more for you Mr. Mouse.
FYI just renewed my Universal annuals and my kids couldn’t be happier.

 

[menamechris]

I have sat back and read all the arguments for and against M bands & fast pass + and as a near local (2 hours away) and holder of annual passes for almost 20 yrs I am of the same mind as I was last year when I decided not to renew our passes.
My family and I will stay away until the Disney Company decides that guest experience is the focus instead of timeshares, refill mugs, bland souvenirs, and any other way to fleece the rubes for everything they have. It is sad, I have always loved this company but enough is enough. I will continue to lurk at this site and other Disney news venues in the hopes that something changes but as of now no more for you Mr. Mouse.
FYI just renewed my Universal annuals and my kids couldn’t be happier.

We think alike. As a local, I have let my Disney annual pass expire and got a Universal pass instead for the first time in over 8 years. Today, you are hardpressed to find someone locally with a Disney annual pass. However, you are now hardpressed to find a local WITHOUT a Universal annual pass. Oh, how times have changed....

 

[misterID]

I have sat back and read all the arguments for and against M bands & fast pass + and as a near local (2 hours away) and holder of annual passes for almost 20 yrs I am of the same mind as I was last year when I decided not to renew our passes.
My family and I will stay away until the Disney Company decides that guest experience is the focus instead of timeshares, refill mugs, bland souvenirs, and any other way to fleece the rubes for everything they have. It is sad, I have always loved this company but enough is enough. I will continue to lurk at this site and other Disney news venues in the hopes that something changes but as of now no more for you Mr. Mouse.
FYI just renewed my Universal annuals and my kids couldn’t be happier.

Hopefully Disney takes notice. Locals don't have the sway they should, but if UNI keeps building up their resort(s) it's going to take a chunk out of their tourism and there' no way to ignore it. It doesn't have to be canceled Disney vacations to get their attention, it's going to be all those lost Disney days to UNI that's going to hurt. Especially when they see UNI's Merch sales rising... again.

 

[ford91exploder]

It's not.

If Disney was actually so concerned about reducing operating costs that they were willing to operate rides at reduced capacity you wouldn't see expensive installations like Tower of Terror, Everest, and the Magic Kingdom's various Mountains operating as fast as they can run them from the first half hour the park opens and even into the evenings before the park closes, when when fastpass returns are a non-issue. Ops gets as many people through these attractions as many times as possible as Ops can manage given the technical limitations of the ride hardware, all day, every day.

To argue otherwise is demonstrably false.

That's how they operate NOW, It's not how TDO WANT's to operate, NGE gives them the tools to operate the parks the way TDO wants. Which is not necessarily the way WE would like the parks run.

 

[evilzorac]

Hopefully Disney takes notice. Locals don't have the sway they should, but if UNI keeps building up their resort(s) it's going to take a chunk out of their tourism and there' no way to ignore it. It doesn't have to be canceled Disney vacations to get their attention, it's going to be all those lost Disney days to UNI that's going to hurt. Especially when they see UNI's Merch sales rising... again.

I would love them to take notice but I don't have high hopes. What really burns me up is that when we went to the parks we would stay 2-3 nights at a pop but that would happen between 4-7 times a year and mos tof those times would be at a deluxe resort eating at full service restaurants. But in a walmart world my profile just doesn't fit the plan.

 

[ford91exploder]

Hopefully Disney takes notice. Locals don't have the sway they should, but if UNI keeps building up their resort(s) it's going to take a chunk out of their tourism and there' no way to ignore it. It doesn't have to be canceled Disney vacations to get their attention, it's going to be all those lost Disney days to UNI that's going to hurt. Especially when they see UNI's Merch sales rising... again.

Look it's already happening, I am so disgusted with MyMagicMinus with mine and other friends experiences I had a week scheduled for the Christmas holiday at WDW, Family decided to cut it to 3 days because Mannheim Steamroller is in town that week and we'd rather see Chip Davis and company for one evening than spend 4 days with MouseArrest bands and being unable to access rides.

Only reason we are STILL going is this will probably be the last year for the Osborne Lights at DHS and DW's parents have never seen them. Once again Disney is taking away an attraction to be replaced with nothingness.

And no I cannot link our PAP's to NGE so no FastPassMinuses for us which means during Christmas holidays no rides either.

 

[Bairstow]

That's how they operate NOW, It's not how TDO WANT's to operate, NGE gives them the tools to operate the parks the way TDO wants. Which is not necessarily the way WE would like the parks run.

Ok, so if this is all theoretical, how exactly do you foresee them running Splash Mountain, or the other high-demand fastpass attractions next year once the system is fully implemented? What is going to change?

 

[GoofGoof]

@GoofGoof I don't see this as a punitive move its a move to reduce attraction loading and hence reduce maintenance and staffing requirements and substantially reduce OPEX. Disney is convinced that people will come to WDW because its Disney and they don't have to DO anything to entice them to go, TDO wants a fixed number of 'First Timers' ONLY to cycle through the parks planning all their activities far in advance so TDO can deploy the minimum headcount to service those guests.

Disney is no longer a theme park company it is a media holding company and what they really want is a large mass of uncritical guests to spend a certain amount of cash per day on a predictable basis, no more, no less.

The fact that the past is littered with the ghosts of companies who tried the same thing in every industry bothers the TWDC management not at all, they are after all 'The Smartest Guys in the Room', Ghost of ENRON anyone?, another 'Smartest Guys in the Room' company.

The contrast between TWDC and Comcast could not be more stark in terms of philosophy.

How would running empty cars reduce staffing or have a major impact on maintenance? I would think they would still need the same number of CMs to operate the rides with or without riders. For maintenance is there less wear on the ride vehicles when they run through empty? Look, I'm not saying that any of your theories are wrong I'm just hopeful that they are.

 

[Foolish Mortal]

Martin, good stuff as always. I was wondering why I haven't run into you and Michelle on this trip.