News New Park Entrance coming to Epcot

[marni1971]

I'd really love to hear why you think Everest is in a mediocre setting. I think its in a gorgeous part of the park!

From the outside it looks great. Inside there‘s tonnes of nothing apart from light leaks and visible structural beams. And a screen.

But I guess nothing more has happened to Epcots entrance....

 

[Father Robinson]

But I guess nothing more has happened to Epcots entrance....

Thank you.

 

[marni1971]

"Ready when you are, CB!"

And if you knew where to look when the guide said that it made sense.

The good old days. When almost everything had a reason.

 

[mikejs78]

Let's be honest, even Runaway Railway does a pretty lousy job disguising that most of its rooms are essentially soundstages. The flat cyclorama walls that have visual interest but abruptly fade to black at the ceiling are not sufficiently compensated for by the minimal set pieces and animatronics.

Despite some interesting figures, rich colors, and dynamic projections, it is almost always very clear you're in some sort of open showroom. This is not so apparent in on-ride videos of the attraction but is present in every major showscene within the ride outside of the train tunnel, projection dome, and the studio. Those are the only scenes that make the effort to fully envelop the guest, and still to varying degrees of success.

It makes it feel like the ride is the gut job it is - projection mapping the ceilings (or at least painting blacklight murals) would have gone SO far towards immersion in the cartoon world. Even something like Snow White's Scary Adventures never let you see the "edges" as clearly as Runaway Railway does. Railway is constructed pretty squarely with subject and backdrop with very little atmospheric scenery in between. I think Frozen frequently suffers these same ills, but at least they have those sparkling trees overhead in the beginning - SOMETHING infusing some atmosphere into the space between the Animatronics and the warehouse ceiling above.

But now I'm sure I've veered off topic.

*EDITED To Add: This may not be clear from this post, but I did have fun on Runaway Railway. I just don't think it hid its sins especially well.

The issue wasn't perfection, it was that Railway doesn't really fare so much better than Frozen by the standards we were discussing. Wouldn't quite call Everest perfect either . . . Perfection isn't really a useful barometer in a subjective medium. But there for sure are core competencies that Disney used to deliver on at basically every level of attraction that they now manage to miss even with projects that are major.

Your thoughts on Lands definitely apply - Liberty Square features one of Disney's most beloved classic, sprawling, immersive dark rides, and an impressive Animatronic stage show that has rarely been equalled in scale . . . AND a massive, intricate Riverboat that actually operates, and is still EASILY the most "minor" land in its park. Obviously Galaxy's Edge and Pandora deliver in some ways that do not apply to Liberty Square, but they should blow it away pretty easily considering one is nearly 50 years old and the others are 3 or less. Instead they're more closely matched than must have ever been intended - and, frustratingly, Liberty Square even takes the win for attraction count.

it's a small world - there's a horrible attraction because you can see the drop ceilings and can tell the fact that it is basically a big warehouse. Haunted Mansion has those horrible exits that take you out of the theme. just awful. What were the imagineers thinking? What was Walt thinking when he did small world?

Honestly, no attraction is perfect, and there are trade-offs and shortcuts in every single attraction for the most part. Disney still does it as good or better than anyone else, and different levels of attractions require different levels of theming. You're not going to go as all out on a C ticket as you will on a mega e ticket like rise.

FEA, Everest, Railway, Rise, and FoP are all excellent attractions for what they are trying to do. FEA is in the wrong park but it is a solid C+ Ticket and as good as any classic Disney dark ride.

Now, when is the fountain going to be done for the entrance?

 

[JohnD]

I thought I came to the front entrance of Epcot thread? Not MMRR vs. GMR thread?

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I agree with you -- even if that was their intention (as @yensidtlaw1969 mentioned above) I'm not sure it really works in the context of the ride.

It's at least an argument, though, whereas MMRR doesn't have a good reason (in-ride reason, that is) for black ceilings.

I know what you mean, though I always felt it contributed to GMR falling relatively flat despite its undeniable ambition. With the MMRR example, I agree with @mikejs78 that, while we shouldn't excuse breaks in theming, things like relatively unthemed roofs are not a recent issue necessarily reflective of a decreased commitment to theming.

On the topic of this thread, @Magic Feather's post really captured my concerns about celebrating the death of these plans. I am also glad I'm not the only one who thought the new building at least seemed architecturally ambitious and within the spirit of EPCOT's design.

 

[Horizons '83]

I know what you mean, though I always felt it contributed to GMR falling relatively flat despite its undeniable ambition. With the MMRR example, I agree with @mikejs78 that, while we shouldn't excuse breaks in theming, things like relatively unthemed roofs are not a recent issue necessarily reflective of a decreased commitment to theming.

On the topic of this thread, @Magic Feather's post really captured my concerns about celebrating the death of these plans. I am also glad I'm not the only one who thought the new building at least seemed architecturally ambitious and within the spirit of EPCOT's design.

Design is one thing, purpose is another.

 

[Bocabear]

it's a small world - there's a horrible attraction because you can see the drop ceilings and can tell the fact that it is basically a big warehouse. Haunted Mansion has those horrible exits that take you out of the theme. just awful. What were the imagineers thinking? What was Walt thinking when he did small world?

Honestly, no attraction is perfect, and there are trade-offs and shortcuts in every single attraction for the most part. Disney still does it as good or better than anyone else, and different levels of attractions require different levels of theming. You're not going to go as all out on a C ticket as you will on a mega e ticket like rise.

FEA, Everest, Railway, Rise, and FoP are all excellent attractions for what they are trying to do. FEA is in the wrong park but it is a solid C+ Ticket and as good as any classic Disney dark ride.

Now, when is the fountain going to be done for the entrance?

Small World at WDW was not built with a gridded dropped ceiling...It actually had something that resembled blown in insulation...Not sure what the actual material was...Probably asbestos...lol Same ceiling system in Pirates...a rough pebbled surface painted with matte paints so it would not reflect light and go away. The Exit Lights at the Haunted Mansion were not planned by imagineers but mandated by OSHA...So...unfortunately that happened later as well...

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Design is one thing, purpose is another.

Honestly, a festival centre that includes a bar and/or a restaurant also doesn't strike me as particularly offensive. I would even suggest that, given the fact that Epcot now has almost year-round festivals, having a more prominent space to tie them all together makes a lot of sense.

Whether the venue as designed was a great fit for those needs I don't think many of us know, but the purpose doesn't seem any more out of step with Epcot than what it was replacing.

 

[Bocabear]

Honestly, a festival centre that includes a bar and/or a restaurant also doesn't strike me as particularly offensive. I would even suggest that, given the fact that Epcot now has almost year-round festivals, having a more prominent space to tie them all together makes a lot of sense.

Whether the venue as designed was a great fit for those needs I don't think many of us know, but the purpose doesn't seem any more out of step with Epcot than what it was replacing.

I totally agree...it was the strangeness of the placement.. They could have taken that whole section of Communicore they tore down and put the festival center in there...It was large enough to hold it... They probably could have added an elevator and built a restaurant on the roof as will without ruining the original symmetry of the park.

 

[Horizons '83]

Honestly, a festival centre that includes a bar and/or a restaurant also doesn't strike me as particularly offensive. I would even suggest that, given the fact that Epcot now has almost year-round festivals, having a more prominent space to tie them all together makes a lot of sense.

Whether the venue as designed was a great fit for those needs I don't think many of us know, but the purpose doesn't seem any more out of step with Epcot than what it was replacing.

I understand we have a difference of opinion here but just some food for thought:

1) There are already over 75 places where you can purchase your favorite beer and wines throughout Epcot during the festivals. Why do we need one more with an up-charge to see the same fireworks we can see around the lagoon for "free".
2) While not prived to the blue prints, I can assume when crowds return, that place will be a nightmare to traverse, and at night time, will be even worse and a hot spot for the drunks. (side note, I do enjoy a beer or two walking around WS, so i'm not anti-alcohol)
3) Similar to #1, this adds no value, even if it is aesthetically appealing, to Epcot as a whole. The space could have been updated as it was, with actual content, innovations, edutainment, etc.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I totally agree...it was the strangeness of the placement.. They could have taken that whole section of Communicore they tore down and put the festival center in there...It was large enough to hold it... They probably could have added an elevator and built a restaurant on the roof as will without ruining the original symmetry of the park.

This argument I completely understand. Personally I'm on the fence about the new building replacing Communicore overall. While I might be in the minority in not thinking the Communicore buildings were particularly beautiful and the new building actually looks a lot more aesthetically pleasing, ruining the symmetry by demolishing one and leaving the other Communicore building was an odd choice.

I understand we have a difference of opinion here but just some food for thought:

1) There are already over 75 places where you can purchase your favorite beer and wines throughout Epcot during the festivals. Why do we need one more with an up-charge to see the same fireworks we can see around the lagoon for "free".
2) While not prived to the blue prints, I can assume when crowds return, that place will be a nightmare to traverse, and at night time, will be even worse and a hot spot for the drunks. (side note, I do enjoy a beer or two walking around WS, so i'm not anti-alcohol)
3) Similar to #1, this adds no value, even if it is aesthetically appealing, to Epcot as a whole. The space could have been updated as it was, with actual content, innovations, edutainment, etc.

Fair enough, we likely won't agree. On the alcohol point, I doubt I would ever go there and certainly wouldn't pay for an up-charge to see the fireworks there or anywhere else they are pushing these things. Still, I feel people are talking about it as though the whole structure is just a giant bar and thus conflating it with a general dislike for the amount of alcohol sold at Epcot. They could take the bar/restaurant off the top of it, I guess, but I am not offended by the structure including both. I also don't think it will change the dynamic of alcohol sales at Epcot in any meaningful way.

 

[JohnD]

This argument I completely understand. Personally I'm on the fence about the new building replacing Communicore overall. While I might be in the minority in not thinking the Communicore buildings were particularly beautiful and this one actually looks a lot more aesthetically pleasing, ruining the symmetry by demolishing one and leaving the other Communicore building was an odd choice.


Fair enough, we likely won't agree. On the alcohol point, I doubt I would ever go there and certainly wouldn't pay for an up-charge to see the fireworks there or anywhere else they are pushing these things. Still, I feel people are talking about it as though the whole structure is just a giant bar and thus conflating it with a general dislike for the amount of alcohol sold at Epcot. They could take the bar/restaurant off the top of it, I guess, but I am not offended by the structure including both. I also don't think it will be some kind of tipping point that will change the dynamic of alcohol sales at Epcot.

It's not the front entrance but at least we're back to EPCOT.

 

[JohnD]

This argument I completely understand. Personally I'm on the fence about the new building replacing Communicore overall. While I might be in the minority in not thinking the Communicore buildings were particularly beautiful and the new building actually looks a lot more aesthetically pleasing, ruining the symmetry by demolishing one and leaving the other Communicore building was an odd choice.


Fair enough, we likely won't agree. On the alcohol point, I doubt I would ever go there and certainly wouldn't pay for an up-charge to see the fireworks there or anywhere else they are pushing these things. Still, I feel people are talking about it as though the whole structure is just a giant bar and thus conflating it with a general dislike for the amount of alcohol sold at Epcot. They could take the bar/restaurant off the top of it, I guess, but I am not offended by the structure including both. I also don't think it will change the dynamic of alcohol sales at Epcot in any meaningful way.

Might as well chime in as I was wondering about the EPCOT discussion. Regarding Communicore, I guess I'm a glass half full person. I would have preferred both sides of Communicore be torn down to open up the space but half down is better than none down. There was no way they were going to get rid of Mouse Gear. Every park obviously has to have a primary gift shop. As for a Festival Center, I thought the renovated Odyssey was going to do that at first but I guess it's too small. But I wasn't a fan of the new planned center either. While, yes, you would have a great view of WS from that building, it would destroy the central view of WS from the old FW or whatever those areas are going to be called.

 

[DreamfinderGuy]

Might as well chime in as I was wondering about the EPCOT discussion. Regarding Communicore, I guess I'm a glass half full person. I would have preferred both sides of Communicore be torn down to open up the space but half down is better than none down. There was no way they were going to get rid of Mouse Gear. Every park obviously has to have a primary gift shop. As for a Festival Center, I thought the renovated Odyssey was going to do that at first but I guess it's too small. But I wasn't a fan of the new planned center either. While, yes, you would have a great view of WS from that building, it would destroy the central view of WS from the old FW or whatever those areas are going to be called.

Honest question, why do you feel both sides being torn down would be better than none? Future World as a whole was shaped around that plaza being the way it was. The new core messes up half of it rather than the entirety. What would you suppose be put on the East plot?

 

[JohnD]

Honest question, why do you feel both sides being torn down would be better than none? Future World as a whole was shaped around that plaza being the way it was. The new core messes up half of it rather than the entirety. What would you suppose be put on the East plot?

Yes. And the reason is this. Communicore/Innoventions just became half-empty buildings taking up space. The original concept only worked for about the first 10 years. I would rather the space be opened up with direct access to the attractions in Future World. So if one side is down, so much the better.

 

[DreamfinderGuy]

Yes. And the reason is this. Communicore/Innoventions just became half-empty buildings taking up space. The original concept only worked for about the first 10 years. I would rather the space be opened up with direct access to the attractions in Future World. So if one side is down, so much the better.

There was direct access to the attractions in Future World almost always from 1982-2015. 2016 for the East building. That would be super easy to fix, and returning to the CommuniCore layout (or at least something that somewhat resembles it) would improve crowd flow immensely. Themed walkways where people are encouraged to stop and mess with things is not gonna make flow any better than a revitalized Innoventions West would've.

 

[JohnD]

There was direct access to the attractions in Future World almost always from 1982-2015. 2016 for the East building. That would be super easy to fix, and returning to the CommuniCore layout (or at least something that somewhat resembles it) would improve crowd flow immensely. Themed walkways where people are encouraged to stop and mess with things is not gonna make flow any better than a revitalized Innoventions West would've.

Well, you asked me an honest question. I gave you an honest answer. My preference would actually be a hub, like MK. Obviously, not with something huge in the middle. If the other side was taken down, you could move the new Walt statue there. But as it is, Innoventions/Communicore was an eyesore. I'm glad it's partially taken down.

 

[DreamfinderGuy]

Well, you asked me an honest question. I gave you an honest answer. My preference would actually be a hub, like MK. Obviously, not with something huge in the middle. If the other side was taken down, you could move the new Walt statue there. But as it is, Innoventions/Communicore was an eyesore. I'm glad it's partially taken down.

Well, yeah, it was definitely an eyesore in it's later days. Likely a contributing factor to it's eventual removal. At least they're fixing that awful paint scheme with the East building.

 

[marni1971]

Yes. And the reason is this. Communicore/Innoventions just became half-empty buildings taking up space.

And that was the fault of the company. Now they figure they can’t be bothered to do anything creative with them so they wanted to spend a fortune to demolish them and build a(nother) bar.