Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

[nace888]

I thought there was just as valid a rumor that the entire system would be removed. My guess is that if the Gondola system works well for them financially, then the monorail to gondola replacement coast would be more then justified. Also, I’ve seen ski mountains run the same chairlift systems for well over 40 years without substantial cost updates. My bet is that we will see gondolas going through the Contemporary in about 10 years.

If the Gondolas were to replace the monorails place for place, I think there would be far too much to fix and change, and space is already tight... They couldn't go higher, so they'd have to go lower, and even then, would have to change the whole platform again.

 

[Creathir]

I thought there was just as valid a rumor that the entire system would be removed. My guess is that if the Gondola system works well for them financially, then the monorail to gondola replacement coast would be more then justified. Also, I’ve seen ski mountains run the same chairlift systems for well over 40 years without substantial cost updates. My bet is that we will see gondolas going through the Contemporary in about 10 years.

Ugh.
This right here is the root of most of my angst with the Skyliner.

It is viewed as some miracle solution.
“By golly why didn’t we think of that before!?!”

It’s a solution for a very specific set of circumstances and does indeed have its own set of challenges and issues.

As much as some may want to trash and get rid of it, I don’t see Disney doing so anytime soon.

 

[JoeCamel]

With all the work that has been going on: automation completion, cosmetic and systems rehab of the trains, beam maintenance, etc. What is the pressing urgency to replace, other than the current trains are old. Yes there are mechanical issues that crop up (and I think of lot of this had to deal with the growing pains of the automation system), and compared to the current generation fo Bombardier trains they are not as efficient or laid out as well; but they do the job and for the most part do it reliably. Yeah you had the door issue, but that's due to the inherent issue with the design of the train from day 1 coupled with the new train controls.

The thing is, the items that people were complaining about in 2008 versus 2018 are basically the same thing. The condition of the interior of the cabs are more or less the same as they were 10-15 years ago. It hasn't gotten any worse, maybe even a little better.

I just don't see how new trains can be justified at this point, especially after everything that has been invested into these current trains to ensure they can run for another 10 years.

I think the pressing need is the "incidents" that have happened over the last couple of years. Having pieces fall off into a parking lot and the doors open during travel is just not acceptable and the evac south of CL all add up to a system that is failing. New trains should fix that but will TWDC/TDO step up and spend the money before something serious happens? Don't know but I would hope so. TWDC has shown to be a little too late in the past and it cost lives.

 

[Lensman]

If the Gondolas were to replace the monorails place for place, I think there would be far too much to fix and change, and space is already tight... They couldn't go higher, so they'd have to go lower, and even then, would have to change the whole platform again.

Besides the issue of removing an icon (which we can debate), or whether they could fit, there are also the two big issues of capacity/throughput and all-weather operation.
1. The current monorail throughput of approximately 7000 passengers per hour still exceeds the Skyliner 4500 passengers per hour. I'm sure that Doppelmayr will be slowly inching that number up but I think people have also speculated how new cabin designs could increase the monorail capacity by 10-20%.
2. I *think* it's the case that the monorail is subject to fewer weather stoppages than a gondola system.
3. A smaller issue that I think we're allowed to discuss in this thread is that the monorails are air conditioned (inadequately though they may be, hopefully to be addressed in the next iteration).
4. Another smaller issue is whether the Skyliner would be more noisy for the rooms around it in the Contemporary.
5. It's not clear to me that it would be cheaper, given the number of stations and the number of turns. Unless they're going point-to-point across the lake...
6. Again, a smaller issue, but if they do a through station (like the Riviera), I'd be interested in the throughput of getting ECVs on and off vs. the monorail.

All in all, I don't think they'd choose to replace the Resort/Express monorail with the Skyliner. And the Epcot monorail is too long of a journey to make the Skyliner a preferable option, neither from the travel time perspective nor the air conditioning perspective.

 

[Disney Lover Addie]

The more Disney delays the new monorails the worst they get... (I know this is old news)

 

[s8film40]

With all the work that has been going on: automation completion, cosmetic and systems rehab of the trains, beam maintenance, etc. What is the pressing urgency to replace, other than the current trains are old. Yes there are mechanical issues that crop up (and I think of lot of this had to deal with the growing pains of the automation system), and compared to the current generation fo Bombardier trains they are not as efficient or laid out as well; but they do the job and for the most part do it reliably. Yeah you had the door issue, but that's due to the inherent issue with the design of the train from day 1 coupled with the new train controls.

The thing is, the items that people were complaining about in 2008 versus 2018 are basically the same thing. The condition of the interior of the cabs are more or less the same as they were 10-15 years ago. It hasn't gotten any worse, maybe even a little better.

I just don't see how new trains can be justified at this point, especially after everything that has been invested into these current trains to ensure they can run for another 10 years.

Yeah exactly. I don’t see a sense of urgency on Disney’s part. The big advantage for Disney would be reducing the current maintenance costs and downtime’s. They can certainly “get by” with these trains. That being said they should’ve been replaced or refurbished 10 years ago.

They also haven’t really invested in these trains to keep them running for 10 years as you say. It’s more like they’ve got 100 problems and just chose 10 to fix. New paint, new AC, updated automation, etc. are all just updates to keep things going. Those aren’t forward looking refurbishment work, but things that should be going on on a regular basis no matter how old the trains are. The fact that we look at those things as Disney finally doing some good things for the trains only shows just how much they’ve been neglected over the years.

 

[monothingie]

I think the pressing need is the "incidents" that have happened over the last couple of years. Having pieces fall off into a parking lot and the doors open during travel is just not acceptable and the evac south of CL all add up to a system that is failing. New trains should fix that but will TWDC/TDO step up and spend the money before something serious happens? Don't know but I would hope so. TWDC has shown to be a little too late in the past and it cost lives.

New trains don’t mean anything provided that equipment is taken care of and maintained.

Check out this article about the Las Vegas system during its opening year. Brand new trains and look at the eerie parallels to the WDW system incidents.

https://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/history-of-las-vegas-monorails-mishaps/80349307

Also keep in mind that thanks to social media every little incident with the monorail system is sensationalized. Disney Security used to go in and confiscate everyone’s 35mm film, Today it’s on twitter before first responders can even get there. It’s a very big incentive for Disney to make sure everything works perfectly, and you can see that in efforts that Transportation is making regarding the monorails.

 

[Figment2005]

I hadn't even considered that, I suppose that's possible that a guest did it. I figured a hatch came down and cut it and they replaced just that part.

Yep, any time you have a unique pattern, especially Disney, someone just has to have it. I've seen 6x6 holes cut out of the carpets.

 

[Figment2005]

I think the pressing need is the "incidents" that have happened over the last couple of years. Having pieces fall off into a parking lot and the doors open during travel is just not acceptable and the evac south of CL all add up to a system that is failing. New trains should fix that but will TWDC/TDO step up and spend the money before something serious happens? Don't know but I would hope so. TWDC has shown to be a little too late in the past and it cost lives.

Just for clarification, pieces didn't fall off, they were ripped off.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Just for clarification, pieces didn't fall off, they were ripped off.

And I believe it is just one piece on one train over a span of 45 years. Same as the door... one door on one train over that same span of time. OMG... the sky is falling! I can't help but wonder how anyone can think that they could put literally millions of miles on those trains with very few problems and still say that they don't do a lot of maintenance on them. It makes no sense at all.

 

[s8film40]

And I believe it is just one piece on one train over a span of 45 years. Same as the door... one door on one train over that same span of time. OMG... the sky is falling! I can't help but wonder how anyone can think that they could put literally millions of miles on those trains with very few problems and still say that they don't do a lot of maintenance on them. It makes no sense at all.

The incidents you hear about are only a small fraction of what occurs. It was definitely not the first time something had fallen from a train or been ripped off and that was hardly the first door incident. And you are absolutely right that they’ve done an outstanding job of keeping those trains running.

The thing is though the expectation for an operation like WDW isn’t and shouldn’t be that “things are kept running”, everything should always be in like new condition. People nowadays aren’t paying less than guests in the past so they should expect the same level of quality. The irony is these incidents often are just freak accidents and don’t necessarily relate to the maintenance of the trains, and there is definitely more social media now which helps to highlight these things when they happen. The general wear on these trains has certainly gotten to the point where it’s apparent to the casual guest and they just haven’t kept up with things like they should. Probably because they’ve been so busy just keeping them running.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The incidents you hear about are only a small fraction of what occurs. It was definitely not the first time something had fallen from a train or been ripped off and that was hardly the first door incident. And you are absolutely right that they’ve done an outstanding job of keeping those trains running.

The thing is though the expectation for an operation like WDW isn’t and shouldn’t be that “things are kept running”, everything should always be in like new condition. People nowadays aren’t paying less than guests in the past so they should expect the same level of quality. The irony is these incidents often are just freak accidents and don’t necessarily relate to the maintenance of the trains, and there is definitely more social media now which helps to highlight these things when they happen. The general wear on these trains has certainly gotten to the point where it’s apparent to the casual guest and they just haven’t kept up with things like they should. Probably because they’ve been so busy just keeping them running.

I agree, however, there is a certain element of mechanical things that prevents any ability to always be perfect in every way. They are moving parts, governed by usage, sensors and general wear. There is no sign that comes up and says this or that is about to break, they just randomly break. I have been around brand new things that break with more frequency then the old, established machines. In most situations there is no human that can look at a part and say... that looks like it is going to break any minute.

That stuff just happens and the idea that now, as you said, social media will report things 10 seconds after they happened does not in any universe mean that it didn't happen before. So, bottom line, in my mind is that keeping them running is indeed keeping up with things. It doesn't mean throwing money down the drain guessing what is going to break next. I have said before and I will say it again... after all these years it would be impossible to think that every drive train part on those trains hasn't been replaced at some point. So the only part of the trains that are that old would actually be the cabins. There is an old saying... if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That is tried and true. And based on my experience those years ago were experiencing the same problems that currently exist except now unreasonable demands coupled with social media make it sound disastrous. To me it's like saying "they had a flat tire" Why didn't they change it before it went flat? Why? Because before it went flat it didn't need to be changed. Unpredictable things happen every day of our lives.

 

[Bender123]

New trains don’t mean anything provided that equipment is taken care of and maintained.

Check out this article about the Las Vegas system during its opening year. Brand new trains and look at the eerie parallels to the WDW system incidents.

https://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/history-of-las-vegas-monorails-mishaps/80349307

Also keep in mind that thanks to social media every little incident with the monorail system is sensationalized. Disney Security used to go in and confiscate everyone’s 35mm film, Today it’s on twitter before first responders can even get there. It’s a very big incentive for Disney to make sure everything works perfectly, and you can see that in efforts that Transportation is making regarding the monorails.

You realize the first few years of the Las Vegas monorail had two WDW Mark IV trains running, right? The ones in the article were 30 years old at that point. As a bonus, here is your depressing picture of the day...sitting in a Nevada junk yard after the Innovia 200 trains were purchased, they were dumped. There is video and pictures of one car being crshed by a monster truck, but no way im watching that or posting it.

 

[monothingie]

You realize the first few years of the Las Vegas monorail had two WDW Mark IV trains running, right? The ones in the article were 30 years old at that point. As a bonus, here is your depressing picture of the day...sitting in a Nevada junk yard after the Innovia 200 trains were purchased, they were dumped. There is video and pictures of one car being crshed by a monster truck, but no way im watching that or posting it.
View attachment 322160

Article refers to the new trains. The incident which had wheel assembly fall off was the Start Trek Themed Monorail.

 

[WEDwaydatamover]

It's funny that you draw the line at the monorails being tagged and sitting behind a partially barbed wire fence.

Maybe if there were barbed wire ran the entire 3 cabs worth of fence the graffiti could have avoided. I dunno?

 

[nace888]

Wonder if those Mark IVs are still out there...

 

[WEDwaydatamover]

Wonder if those Mark IVs are still out there...

I've seen those images going back at least 15 years. I don't imagine they would still be there, but stranger things have happened.

 

[monothingie]

Wonder if those Mark IVs are still out there...

I was under the impression that the entirety of Silver is stored somewhere in a warehouse in Florida somewhere.
Red is famous for its post service travels.

The rest were likely crushed.

Just a side note, does anyone know when the last MKIV was pulled off the beams? The reason why I ask is that 1996 Fourth of July Weekend I am 99.5% confident I saw MKIV silver operating on the Epcot route (different doors were the give away) I've always been curious to know.

 

[lunatiksblazer]

From what I can find MKIV was done in 1991

 

[jbolen2]

I was under the impression that the entirety of Silver is stored somewhere in a warehouse in Florida somewhere.
Red is famous for its post service travels.

The rest were likely crushed.

Just a side note, does anyone know when the last MKIV was pulled off the beams? The reason why I ask is that 1996 Fourth of July Weekend I am 99.5% confident I saw MKIV silver operating on the Epcot route (different doors were the give away) I've always been curious to know.

I saved this from someone else’s post in another monorail thread a while back. I would be interested to know if the are still collecting dust too. I think parts of lime and coral are still sitting in the desert but haven’t seen any news on that since they crushed part of one at monster jam a few years back.