Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

esskay

esskay

Well-Known Member
Disone said:
With the right amount of inventment, they really could make these the last trains that WDW will need to purchase. Not say that the can litterall last forever but honestly, if you can get 100 year old steam engines still working effectively, there is no reason you can't double or triple the life expectancy to 40 or 60 years for monorail.
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It gets to the point where its no longer viable to do that though.

Use larger systems as an example. The London Underground for example. Trains typically are in operation for upto 50 years, and even after that have continued to be used elsewhere (e.g the 1938 stock, many of which was actually refurbished 1927 stock) are still in use on the Isle of Wight today. That's an 80 year old electric train still in use!

That being said, over time you end up replacing so many parts that it becomes a new vehicle. The issue Disney has here is that the body of their monorail trains is fibreglass, which doesnt stand up as well as the steel trains. The current fleet would cost tens of millions to overhaul, at which point its better to cut your losses and get a new fleet that is built to last (the current monorail was never built to last longer than 20 years).

A new fleet could certainly last 50 years. Anything more than that really becomes more effort than its worth.
 
Lensman

Lensman

Well-Known Member
rmwebs said:
It gets to the point where its no longer viable to do that though.

Use larger systems as an example. The London Underground for example. Trains typically are in operation for upto 50 years, and even after that have continued to be used elsewhere (e.g the 1938 stock, many of which was actually refurbished 1927 stock) are still in use on the Isle of Wight today. That's an 80 year old electric train still in use!

That being said, over time you end up replacing so many parts that it becomes a new vehicle. The issue Disney has here is that the body of their monorail trains is fibreglass, which doesnt stand up as well as the steel trains. The current fleet would cost tens of millions to overhaul, at which point its better to cut your losses and get a new fleet that is built to last (the current monorail was never built to last longer than 20 years).

A new fleet could certainly last 50 years. Anything more than that really becomes more effort than its worth.
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I also think that part of the longevity equation is the nature of the underlying systems. The Walt Disney World Railroad engines are steam engines and the rolling stock is all mechanical. They don't even have any doors, windows, or air conditioning! :)

Anyway, their pure mechanical nature and lack of electrical or electronic parts "simplifies" their maintenance. As long as you have the skilled tradespeople who can fabricate the mechanical parts and maintain engineers who know how to maintain the steam boilers, you're good to go.

This is not to minimize the marvelousness of maintaining and refurbishing old steam engines and the train cars. I am just speculating that it may be harder to maintain a late-20th century monorail than an early 20th century steam train.

I'd be happy to hear arguments on either side to this.
 
L

lawdogNOLA

Active Member
Disone said:
20 years is a guideline or minimal expectation. With the right budget you can make them last indefinitely. Hello DL and WDW steam engines. Is it cheap? No. Does it require complete rebuilds occasionally? Sure does. I will second or piggyback off of someones earlier suggestion about the new trains.....

14 really is a great starting number of trains for the new fleet. At the beginning of the life span of the new trains, it may seem excessive. 15 years down the road its going to allow for heavy downtime and maintenance to the individual trains with out downtime or operational sacrifices to the system whole.

With fourteen trains though they should also invest and do it right, and would need to add to the Epcot line a second monorail "round house" to store the trains. Bare minimum of four bays and also a monorail washing facility. These bays should be built with maintenance in mind. Perhaps two of them for heavy maintenance and two of them designed more so around the custodial needs of the system. designed so that a 3rd shift custodial crew could detail clean the insides and all the windows of the trains. Only two a night may not be enough but its far more then what they are doing now.

With the right amount of inventment, they really could make these the last trains that WDW will need to purchase. Not say that the can litterall last forever but honestly, if you can get 100 year old steam engines still working effectively, there is no reason you can't double or triple the life expectancy to 40 or 60 years for monorail.

One side note... saw the wrap on monorail orange. Man that looks good! They have have stumble on a new paint scheme for the trains and I have wondered, as dirty as some of those trains are..... why could they not wrap them in just their original paint design periodically to keep them fresh looking on the outside? Is wrapping them more expensive than repainting them? They seem to wrap them much faster then repainting them. Trains seem to be down a LONG TIME for repaint, but orange got wrapped really quick.
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You're comparing apples and oranges. The trains were and remain a ride. They aren't hauling the loads they did when they were actual working locomotives. Also, key word: locomotives. The locomotives are the only pieces of the railroad that are "hi-tech". with the speaker system and lights essentially being all that's "advanced" in the passenger cars.

The monorails, however, are a working transport system. Further, as rmwebs pointed out, the monorails involve a great deal of fiberglass, which isn't as strong as the steel that is in the locomotives. Sure, the monorails can be completely rebuilt via maintenance, but unlike the railroad, it's not just the locomotive, a locomotive using pretty simple, pre-electronic age technology as the core of what makes it move. But the older the monorails get, the more work needs to go into them, and the law of diminishing returns rears its head. There's a reason we don't still have busses from the 1950s in modern cities.
 
MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
From last year...

MisterPenguin said:
Disney just purchased 50 Gillig Low Floor Buses. At $380,000 each (according to one web site), that's $19 million dollars. And each one needs a bus driver. And is less efficient to operate than a GL.

They'll always need buses as back-ups and for surge demand and for off the beaten track destinations. But I imagine they'd like the most used routes to become as automated and efficient as possible.
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Robbiem

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
rmwebs said:
It gets to the point where its no longer viable to do that though.

Use larger systems as an example. The London Underground for example. Trains typically are in operation for upto 50 years, and even after that have continued to be used elsewhere (e.g the 1938 stock, many of which was actually refurbished 1927 stock) are still in use on the Isle of Wight today. That's an 80 year old electric train still in use!

That being said, over time you end up replacing so many parts that it becomes a new vehicle. The issue Disney has here is that the body of their monorail trains is fibreglass, which doesnt stand up as well as the steel trains. The current fleet would cost tens of millions to overhaul, at which point its better to cut your losses and get a new fleet that is built to last (the current monorail was never built to last longer than 20 years).

A new fleet could certainly last 50 years. Anything more than that really becomes more effort than its worth.
Click to expand...

Typically London tube trains last for around 40 years with several large overhauls in this time. 38 stock is a rare exception and the other aging tube stocks are kept going because there isnt the money to replace them. Newer trains are far more problematic to maintain than older trains as they age because it is much harder to source twenty or thirty year old electronics than old style mechanical parts. design life is also measured not only in years but also in milage. A lot of the older trains are from an era when trains ran much slower and infrequently, with todays more intensive timetables and faster signaling the trains just age faster and wear out more quickly
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Piney said:
That all depends on if they buys or leases buses. Leasing buses cost less then if Disney buys them.
A Nova 40’ bus costs $552,805.
A Nova 60’ bus costs $796,219.
Each
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Those prices seem quite a bit high. They have no frills and unless they have double in price since 2010 it is not even close to my recollection. Particularly true when you consider that Disney would be getting fleet discounts. But, if they are that costly, then it is understandable why they are going to Gondola's and we will probably see a lot more of them as time goes by.
 
Piney

Piney

Member
Goofyernmost said:
Those prices seem quite a bit high. They have no frills and unless they have double in price since 2010 it is not even close to my recollection. Particularly true when you consider that Disney would be getting fleet discounts. But, if they are that costly, then it is understandable why they are going to Gondola's and we will probably see a lot more of them as time goes by.
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I had found those prices from a company that had received quote for mass production of 120 buses 45 40’ buses and 75 60’ buses so I just divided the total cost of each type of bus by that number of buses.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Piney said:
I had found those prices from a company that had received quote for mass production of 120 buses 45 40’ buses and 75 60’ buses so I just divided the total cost of each type of bus by that number of buses.
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Those must be tour buses, not standard short distance, drop off, buses like are used in WDW. That is much more luxury then they come up with. The ones that they lease for the Magic Bus from the Airport are closer to that price, but, it sounds a lot more like the long distance tour buses. However, I am out of touch now, but, that seems like an awful jump in just 10 years.
 
Rich Brownn

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
s8film40 said:
Those are opaque the whole time, they don’t change.
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Nope, he's correct if he is talking about the windows in the hallway. Those are smart windows The projection windows are clear the whole time. I worked the train. First time I saw the windows go from opaque (but dim) to completely back to block the sun I was like "OMG". Makes sense though. If you boarded the train and the windows black it wouldnt seem right. But it does have to block the sun (especially in the morning) so it does indeed turn black.
 
s8film40

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Rich Brownn said:
Nope, he's correct if he is talking about the windows in the hallway. Those are smart windows The projection windows are clear the whole time. I worked the train. First time I saw the windows go from opaque (but dim) to completely back to block the sun I was like "OMG". Makes sense though. If you boarded the train and the windows black it wouldnt seem right. But it does have to block the sun (especially in the morning) so it does indeed turn black.
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Are you talking about the windows on the outside of the train? I thought we were talking about the windows between the cabins and the hallway.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Rich Brownn said:
Nope, he's correct if he is talking about the windows in the hallway. Those are smart windows The projection windows are clear the whole time. I worked the train. First time I saw the windows go from opaque (but dim) to completely back to block the sun I was like "OMG". Makes sense though. If you boarded the train and the windows black it wouldnt seem right. But it does have to block the sun (especially in the morning) so it does indeed turn black.
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I don't think it is the external windows that they are talking about. The internal windows in each compartment/hallway are the ones that have the show (shadows) on them and I don't remember them being anything but opaque. I agree that some are thinking about two different things.
 

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