Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Ehhhh.

Me....I think recently they have gone back to maintaining them better. Reinvesting in them if you will. Around 2017 give or take a year.... Years of neglected maintenance started to rear its ugly head. I'm not exaggerating to say near daily the monorails would break down for hours at a time and often multiple times a day.

Sure, that could be a sign of their age, but they're running so much better now which seems to me an indication that something changed in the maintenance of those trains.

All 12 of them have now been in the maintenance barn. All 12 have been repainted in the very least. Most have updated interiors. And as some here have indicated many things have happened under the hood. I think it's those things happening under the hood that have contributed to their better operational efficiency.

I do think they were faced with either buying new trains or heavily investing in the maintenance of the current fleet and they chose the ladder.
We just heard about it recently, but trust me, those trains would not have lasted even that long without intensive maintenance. The majority of the serious stuff happens piece by piece but you are talking about superficial stuff, paint, etc. Just like people machines have inner mechanical parts that like humans need replacing and after 10 years, at the very least, I feel that there was not an original mechanical part that hadn't been replaced. That is the most important part. I know humans judge everything by the external parts. They gotta be shiny no matter how hard working they might be.
 

montyz81

Well-Known Member
The monorails would make a great elevated walking path!!
1653481118409.png
I can picture it now. Peddle biking to Epcot. Who doesn't want to do that in the Florida heat.?
 

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
I think there's an aspect that is being missed here.

Disney's goal is to get people to book at their resorts and then to keep them on property throughout their entire stay. If a guest sees Disney as all-inclusive, and never leaves the property, then they are constantly spending money with Disney. If they go off-site to a restaurant, a shopping location, Universal, whatever, then that's money Disney has lost.

Disney's free transportation encourages guests to stay on property. The buses, Skyliner, and monorails all facilitate people being able to stay at a Disney resort without a rental car. If Disney starts charging for those items, more people are likely to make the calculation that they'd rather just get a rental car and drive themselves around property, which then leads to more opportunities to go off property. Disney doesn't want that.

That is actually part of the reasoning behind parking fees at the resorts as well. Yes, of course, part of that is simply about another source of bringing in revenue. But that's actually not all there is to it. It's also so people think "why pay for parking when I could just take Disney's free transportation." Everything they do is very carefully calculated to keep you on property. And even for non-resort guests, if you can hop on the monorail to go from the Magic Kingdom to the Contemporary to have dinner, you may do that. But if there's a fee to do so, you may just go back to your car and decide to go off property for dinner instead of going over to the Contemporary.

For this reason, I find it highly unlikely that Disney will start charging for any of their internal transportation. I think what they would gain would be far offset by what they would lose.

I disagree. That definitely was the goal, started by Eisner. I don't believe that is the goal, now.

The assumption is: The guest will come to Disney, anyway, and pay for whatever they ask, anyway, and pay more.

Originally, what you're talking about was the Magical Express. Get them to property. They don't rent a car. They use Disney transportation to get around. They spend on Disney property.

I think that's shifted to: They're going to spend on Disney property, anyway - why provide extras.

Also, there's a definite shift with Bob's view which is: Why is it free? If people are using it then we can sell it. If we can't sell it and make a profit, cut it (Magical Express) If they could have sold the ME AND made a profit, they would have. Apparently their research said they couldn't so they cut it.

I really believe it's just a matter of time before transportation has a fee. They could use fuel prices as the impetus. "Due due unusually high fuel prices, we will be charging a nominal fee to ride Disney Transportation around the Most Magical Place on Earth!"... and when fuel prices drop, they'll just leave the fee. Or they could just implement it.

Bob doesn't look at it as, "Because of A, you get B, and thus C - which is what we want!" He sees it more simply as, "Why are we giving A away when we could sell it?"

Look at the crowds. He's right.
 

WDWFREAK53

Well-Known Member
I think there's an aspect that is being missed here.

Disney's goal is to get people to book at their resorts and then to keep them on property throughout their entire stay. If a guest sees Disney as all-inclusive, and never leaves the property, then they are constantly spending money with Disney. If they go off-site to a restaurant, a shopping location, Universal, whatever, then that's money Disney has lost.

Disney's free transportation encourages guests to stay on property. The buses, Skyliner, and monorails all facilitate people being able to stay at a Disney resort without a rental car. If Disney starts charging for those items, more people are likely to make the calculation that they'd rather just get a rental car and drive themselves around property, which then leads to more opportunities to go off property. Disney doesn't want that.

That is actually part of the reasoning behind parking fees at the resorts as well. Yes, of course, part of that is simply about another source of bringing in revenue. But that's actually not all there is to it. It's also so people think "why pay for parking when I could just take Disney's free transportation." Everything they do is very carefully calculated to keep you on property. And even for non-resort guests, if you can hop on the monorail to go from the Magic Kingdom to the Contemporary to have dinner, you may do that. But if there's a fee to do so, you may just go back to your car and decide to go off property for dinner instead of going over to the Contemporary.

For this reason, I find it highly unlikely that Disney will start charging for any of their internal transportation. I think what they would gain would be far offset by what they would lose.

Magical Express actually started that Disney vacation at the airport and most people that used it didn't get a rental car. I'd say that the removal of Magical Express is more of a hit to people staying completely on property than the free in-resort transportation. Having people just use easy "included" transportation from the airport eliminated the guest's need to do extra work to either rent a car or book another shuttle. (It's an additional cost in their eyes). Even though there is in-resort transportation, people will see the convenience and value of driving their own rental car (now that they had to get one anyways).
 

Disone

Well-Known Member
We just heard about it recently, but trust me, those trains would not have lasted even that long without intensive maintenance. The majority of the serious stuff happens piece by piece but you are talking about superficial stuff, paint, etc. Just like people machines have inner mechanical parts that like humans need replacing and after 10 years, at the very least, I feel that there was not an original mechanical part that hadn't been replaced. That is the most important part. I know humans judge everything by the external parts. They gotta be shiny no matter how hard working they might be.
Actually I was more impressed with the stuff under the hood. I completely understand that a paint job does not improve the overall performance of the monorail, nor does the interior updates. However, the installation of new braking systems and other things under the hoods have. I just don't have as much information on that stuff and it's not as visibly obvious as the external stuff.

Clearly maintenance has always been done on the monorails to keep them running. I understand that machines 20 years old need a lot of maintenance. I still stand by the fact that Disney wasn't doing enough maintenance on those 20 plus year old machines until more recently.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
We just heard about it recently, but trust me, those trains would not have lasted even that long without intensive maintenance. The majority of the serious stuff happens piece by piece but you are talking about superficial stuff, paint, etc. Just like people machines have inner mechanical parts that like humans need replacing and after 10 years, at the very least, I feel that there was not an original mechanical part that hadn't been replaced. That is the most important part. I know humans judge everything by the external parts. They gotta be shiny no matter how hard working they might be.
Let's hope WDW did not lose too much institutional knowledge of the monorails because of COVID.
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Magical Express actually started that Disney vacation at the airport and most people that used it didn't get a rental car. I'd say that the removal of Magical Express is more of a hit to people staying completely on property than the free in-resort transportation. Having people just use easy "included" transportation from the airport eliminated the guest's need to do extra work to either rent a car or book another shuttle. (It's an additional cost in their eyes). Even though there is in-resort transportation, people will see the convenience and value of driving their own rental car (now that they had to get one anyways).
Since they instituted resort parking fees they are making sure everyone has a car to park, bonus is no more complaints about being charged when you took ME to get there.
 

markham

Active Member
I understand that the expectation for a WDW monorail is different, but just this January the NYC MTA retired their R-32 subway cars which were introduced in 1964, after 6 decades of 24/7 use and millions of daily riders. To think that the Mark VI is no longer fit for service with proper maintenance after being introduced in 1989 seems illogical to me.

The subways here even make a big deal every holiday season of reintroducing legacy cars to a specific line and people show up, many without any place to actually commute to on those lines, just for the chance to ride in them.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
I understand that the expectation for a WDW monorail is different, but just this January the NYC MTA retired their R-32 subway cars which were introduced in 1964, after 6 decades of 24/7 use and millions of daily riders. To think that the Mark VI is no longer fit for service with proper maintenance after being introduced in 1989 seems illogical to me.

The subways here even make a big deal every holiday season of reintroducing legacy cars to a specific line and people show up, many without any place to actually commute to on those lines, just for the chance to ride in them.
Seattle still operates the Alweg monorail system daily as well. Was built in 1962.
 

EPCOT-O.G.

Well-Known Member
I think there's an aspect that is being missed here.

Disney's goal is to get people to book at their resorts and then to keep them on property throughout their entire stay. If a guest sees Disney as all-inclusive, and never leaves the property, then they are constantly spending money with Disney. If they go off-site to a restaurant, a shopping location, Universal, whatever, then that's money Disney has lost.

Disney's free transportation encourages guests to stay on property. The buses, Skyliner, and monorails all facilitate people being able to stay at a Disney resort without a rental car. If Disney starts charging for those items, more people are likely to make the calculation that they'd rather just get a rental car and drive themselves around property, which then leads to more opportunities to go off property. Disney doesn't want that.

That is actually part of the reasoning behind parking fees at the resorts as well. Yes, of course, part of that is simply about another source of bringing in revenue. But that's actually not all there is to it. It's also so people think "why pay for parking when I could just take Disney's free transportation." Everything they do is very carefully calculated to keep you on property. And even for non-resort guests, if you can hop on the monorail to go from the Magic Kingdom to the Contemporary to have dinner, you may do that. But if there's a fee to do so, you may just go back to your car and decide to go off property for dinner instead of going over to the Contemporary.

For this reason, I find it highly unlikely that Disney will start charging for any of their internal transportation. I think what they would gain would be far offset by what they would lose.
Yes, but…

One of the reasons that they got rid of ME is because in the Uber/Lyft world they could no longer expect to keep guests solely within the WDW ecosystem/bubble. Since COVID, they’ve cracked down on resort hopping to the point where it’s not allowed (unless you already have a reservation, if driving) or a terrible pain to get to/from places by bus. Fuel costs and labor costs for the bus drivers have to be obscene. They have the third largest metropolitan bus service in FL behind Jacksonville and Miami.

Given the tremendous costs and operating expenses for this fleet and other internal services, the general trend elsewhere in the parks and resorts, I would not be surprised at all to see transportation fares or surcharges come about.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Since COVID, they’ve cracked down on resort hopping to the point where it’s not allowed (unless you already have a reservation, if driving) or a terrible pain to get to/from places by bus.
This isn’t really true. Before covid many resorts wouldn’t let you park without a dining reservation. Nothing really changed as far as I know.

I’ve always used Disney transportation to resort hop, to me it’s part of the fun and very few resorts have only bus transportation available. (Coronado, All Stars, Animal Kingdom Lodge)
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I disagree. That definitely was the goal, started by Eisner. I don't believe that is the goal, now.

The assumption is: The guest will come to Disney, anyway, and pay for whatever they ask, anyway, and pay more.

Originally, what you're talking about was the Magical Express. Get them to property. They don't rent a car. They use Disney transportation to get around. They spend on Disney property.

I think that's shifted to: They're going to spend on Disney property, anyway - why provide extras.

Also, there's a definite shift with Bob's view which is: Why is it free? If people are using it then we can sell it. If we can't sell it and make a profit, cut it (Magical Express) If they could have sold the ME AND made a profit, they would have. Apparently their research said they couldn't so they cut it.

I really believe it's just a matter of time before transportation has a fee. They could use fuel prices as the impetus. "Due due unusually high fuel prices, we will be charging a nominal fee to ride Disney Transportation around the Most Magical Place on Earth!"... and when fuel prices drop, they'll just leave the fee. Or they could just implement it.

Bob doesn't look at it as, "Because of A, you get B, and thus C - which is what we want!" He sees it more simply as, "Why are we giving A away when we could sell it?"

Look at the crowds. He's right.
One of the greatest Disney posts ever.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
This isn’t really true. Before covid many resorts wouldn’t let you park without a dining reservation. Nothing really changed as far as I know.

I’ve always used Disney transportation to resort hop, to me it’s part of the fun and very few resorts have only bus transportation available. (Coronado, All Stars, Animal Kingdom Lodge)
Agreed…they cracked down on resort visits about 10 years ago. Doesn’t mean it was always enforced…but it wasn’t worth trying
 

KeithVH

Well-Known Member
We just heard about it recently, but trust me, those trains would not have lasted even that long without intensive maintenance. The majority of the serious stuff happens piece by piece but you are talking about superficial stuff, paint, etc. Just like people machines have inner mechanical parts that like humans need replacing and after 10 years, at the very least, I feel that there was not an original mechanical part that hadn't been replaced. That is the most important part. I know humans judge everything by the external parts. They gotta be shiny no matter how hard working they might be.
So - then we're taking Plato's position and saying the monorail is a Ship of Theseus? IOW, if all the parts are replaced, it IS a new monorail.

Just sayin' . . .
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
So - then we're taking Plato's position and saying the monorail is a Ship of Theseus? IOW, if all the parts are replaced, it IS a new monorail.

Just sayin' . . .

Good for philosophy, but in commercialism, the public opinion matters most and not enough of these have been replaced.

Also, for the sake of that philosophy, you have MGM To DHS's attractions. Not a single unchanged ride since opening day. So it is the park of Theseus.
 

ohioguy

Well-Known Member
I'm sure if they could, Disney would immediately rid themselves of the monorail altogether and convert it to a Skyliner system. Skyliner is cheaper to operate and more adaptable to whatever transportation supply they need at any given time. I'm still of the mindset that the Skyliner is the opening salvo in the phase-out of the monorail, although the monorail's iconic status will delay the inevitability of that conversion. It may be a half-and-half replacement, with the monorail only servicing the Seven Seas Lagoon and the EPCOT monorail eventually being eighty-sixed and replaced by the powers that be.
 

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