New MARVEL attractions to Disney Parks

[danlb_2000]

Right. The lawyers must love it. The problem is that it was a contract between a comic book company and a theme park company that turned into a contract between a theme park company and a theme park company. All of the language in the contract used to basically mean, "Don't make any deals with anyone else". Now, all of a sudden, there's room for interpretation.

I'm doing this from memory, but one of the interesting things that I haven't heard mentioned from the contract is that the Marvel characters used at IoA cannot be "more than an incidental part" of attractions at other theme parks. Holy cow is that ripe for interpretation! I believe that Disney could, for example, digitally insert Spider-Man as the caddy during the golf scene in Soarin' with no penalty.

Actually, it's the other way around. Universal only has the rights to characters (or characters in the same family) that are currently being used in a non-incidental way in thier parks. So if they just have a picture of a character on a wall that would not be enough to get them the exclusive rights to it. Interestingly the contracts says that having a costumed character in the park is not enouch to be considered non-incidental.

 

[lebeau]

I posted this on another site, but thought it appropriate for here:

The problem is that almost everyone is over-estimating Disney's desire to open Marvel attractions at WDW.
Disney has 4 other resorts to worry about: Anaheim, Paris, Hong Kong and Shanghai (Tokyo doesn't really count)

Plus, let's all take a deep breath and realize....Disney DIDN'T buy Marvel for the theme park rights. They bought it for the movie ticket sales, DVD and Blu-Ray sales and merchandise.
Of course, they will have plans to develop attractions...because practically EVERY Disney franchise had been through WDI's thought processes on making an attraction. 90% of them don't ever happen.

I won't be surprised at all if we see a Marvel attraction open in Shanghai, and Disney Studios Paris, but beyond that, I think everyone has their spiderman underoos in a twist for something that isn't happening at WDW.

Someone gets it!!!

 

[lebeau]

Universal was and still is paying royalties to Marvel. Disney Co. just happens to own Marvel now. Nothing really changed.

Now, giving the rights and guests to a competing theme park is completely different. Unless the price is very very right.

1 hurts Uni, the other is status quo.

Exactly.

Plus, this sort of mutually beneficial relationship (while sometimes awkward) is commonplace among entertainment companies like Disney and Comcast. That's why you saw both Paramount and Disney's logos at the start of Avengers. That's why Uni promotes WB's Harry Potter franchise and Disney promotes Lucasfilm properties.

There's enough money to go around.

 

[lebeau]

Yes, Disney does want the Marvel characters in their Florida parks. They are waiting for the contract to expire.

They will be waiting a long time since the contract doesn't expire.

 

[Mimi]

It's not trashing. It's the fact that the subject has been beaten to death on these and other boards in the three years since Disney bought Marvel. We know what the deal is in Florida...why make another thread about it?

Who cares? Let people talk... it is, after all, a FORUM. If you don't want to talk about it anymore, don't. But don't be disrespectful to others in the process.

What did Thumper's father say? "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothin' at all."

Everyone should repeat this mantra several times before checking the boards.

 

[jt04]

Someone gets it!!!

I think most fans would be glad to trade Marvel at WDW for something like the TRON-ification of Tomorrowland. Not the theme taking over the land but the general vibe with a Tron attraction thrown in.

That said, there is no way Marvel characters won't be worked into the parks at WDW including attractions. It may take time but I am convinced it can and will happen. It just won't be the characters featured at IoA.

All this talk of Disney buying the rights back is misguided it seems to me. I personally think the mouse has to be ecstatic about a competitor marketing their brand. Universal is marketing a Disney product. How can it get any better than that?

 

[lebeau]

I guess I will take it up with Nikke Finke, because she is wrong and clearly has not read the contract. (You have a link, by the way? I actually am interested. Wouldn't mind seeing that book you allegedly published, either.)

I assume that Disday is referring the the article Finke posted not long after the sale of Marvel. Here's a link:

http://www.deadline.com/2009/09/universal-vs-disney-over-marvel-characters/

She was basically posting what she was hearing around town while the lawyers were scurying to re-read the contract. To the best of my knowledge, she hasn't said anything much since then. It sounds like the people she talked to had a slanted view of the terms of the deal.

Long story short, the article was far from the last word on the subject. I think reading it makes it clear it was just rumors that were flying about during the chaotic early days of the Marvel purchase.

 

[lebeau]

Right. The lawyers must love it. The problem is that it was a contract between a comic book company and a theme park company that turned into a contract between a theme park company and a theme park company. All of the language in the contract used to basically mean, "Don't make any deals with anyone else". Now, all of a sudden, there's room for interpretation.

If I could pick a knit, neither Disney nor Comcast are theme park companies. They are entertainment conglomerates that happen to own theme parks. The theme parks are very far from the defining feature of either company.

Cedar Fair and Six Flags are theme (or amusement) park companies. Very different scale.

 

[lebeau]

I think most fans would be glad to trade Marvel at WDW for something like the TRON-ification of Tomorrowland. Not the theme taking over the land but the general vibe with a Tron attraction thrown in.

You can't trade in Marvel at WDW for something because Marvel doesn't exist at WDW. And can't under the status quo.

That said, there is no way Marvel characters won't be worked into the parks at WDW including attractions. It may take time but I am convinced it can and will happen. It just won't be the characters featured at IoA.

I disagree. There is a very real possibility that it will never happen.

As time drags along, Marvel at WDW becomes more likely. Eventually, the status quo will probably change. It may take 20 years. But it is far from inevitable. It could never happen.

There are a lot of things Disney can add to the parks without having to pay a king's ransom to their competitors.

All this talk of Disney buying the rights back is misguided it seems to me. I personally think the mouse has to be ecstatic about a competitor marketing their brand. Universal is marketing a Disney product. How can it get any better than that?

As has been pointed out time and again since the Marvel purchase, the current situation is mutually beneficial. It's a double edged sword for both companies. Disney would rather have the theme park rights for themselves. Universal would rather not deal with Disney at all. But for the time being, everyone benefits.

If I had to guess, I would say that Universal is probably happier with the deal than Disney. At the time the contract was made, Marvel needed money. They made a deal Disney would never have agreed to.

Edit: Also, I can't debate Marvel with you without reminding you of your early belief that Universal would just give up the rights and that Sony would hand over the film rights to Spider-man. You have to understand by now how fundamentally wrong that was, right?

 

[nor'easter]

Folks, it doesn't matter that when the original agreement was made Disney didn't own Marvel. When Disney purchased Marvel, they purchased all assets AND liabilities...that's the way it works. And simply stating that Disney now MUST find a way to bring Marvel characters to WDW is just demonstrating ignorance.

Can contracts be renegotiated? Of course. But only if the parties reach an agreement, and Disney is in the weaker position. Of all the blather here, Lebeau has it about right: something MIGHT happen in the LONG term, for example, when the Spiderman attraction is well past its prime and if Universal needs the money.

 

[jt04]

You can't trade in Marvel at WDW for something because Marvel doesn't exist at WDW. And can't under the status quo.



I disagree. There is a very real possibility that it will never happen.

As time drags along, Marvel at WDW becomes more likely. Eventually, the status quo will probably change. It may take 20 years. But it is far from inevitable. It could never happen.

There are a lot of things Disney can add to the parks without having to pay a king's ransom to their competitors.



As has been pointed out time and again since the Marvel purchase, the current situation is mutually beneficial. It's a double edged sword for both companies. Disney would rather have the theme park rights for themselves. Universal would rather not deal with Disney at all. But for the time being, everyone benefits.

If I had to guess, I would say that Universal is probably happier with the deal than Disney. At the time the contract was made, Marvel needed money. They made a deal Disney would never have agreed to.

Edit: Also, I can't debate Marvel with you without reminding you of your early belief that Universal would just give up the rights and that Sony would hand over the film rights to Spider-man. You have to understand by now how fundamentally wrong that was, right?

Time will tell but I think you will see Marvel characters at DHS very soon if the fine print allows it. Like within a year or so. Disney is working on many Marvel projects for all of their platforms. You know how they like to market Disney Channel charcters at DHS. I think it will be the same for Marvel projects they are developing for cable. Just makes sense.

I did think Universal would convert the Marvel attractions at IoA. I was stunned (happily so, I love the irony) they have chosen to carry on with the Marvel brand.

I do agree with you now though, with the amazing success of The Avengers, nobody is about to give up ANY rights to ANY comic based characters for the forseeable future.

The Avengers has changed the game permanently.

 

[Disday]

lebeu since you're the expert, why don't you tell us exactly what the contract says. No, don't show me a link to the SEC filing, I want to know exactly what the real contract says. Since you say it has no end, show me that word for word. I find it interesting since the media hasn't had access to the actual contract, that you would know all the details.

 

[Ignohippo]

Anyone else notice how Uni Orlando is doing virtually no advertising right now? Seeing as how they usually plaster the airwaves, especially here in Tampa, you'd think they'd be trying to take advantage of The Avengers success.

This may just be wishful thinking, but I believe this may be an insight into Uni's long-term strategy and I don't think the Marvel characters are part of it.

A lot could also be inferred by the lack of plans for The Transformers Ride coming to Orlando. A Transformers overlay would be a perfect fit to replace Superhero Island and I don't think it's a stretch to think the Transformers could be the eventual replacement for Marvel.

As I've said before, I don't think the Transformers Ride would be cloned to take over Spider-Man – I believe they would simply re-do the movie and set pieces for The Transformers and leave the ride basically the same (the same way they converted Back To The Future to The Simpsons). 4d rides are perfect for these types of transitions.

I don't see it happening in the near future, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it around the time TF4 comes out or as the next "big thing" for Uni after Potter is completed.

 

[GLaDOS]

I find it interesting since the media hasn't had access to the actual contract, that you would know all the details.

The media has had access to the contract. Everyone does. It's been linked to in this thread.

 

[Ignohippo]

One thing about Disney buying the theme park rights for the Marvel characters that I don't think people are considering is that I don't believe the Disney Board would go for the expenditure. Iger has been shown time and time again that he is more than willing to make such a deal – the Disney shareholders are the opposite.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that the Disney Board rejected such a deal. The Avengers monorail may actually be a parting shot by Iger at the Disney Board.

 

[lebeau]

Time will tell but I think you will see Marvel characters at DHS very soon if the fine print allows it. Like within a year or so. Disney is working on many Marvel projects for all of their platforms. You know how they like to market Disney Channel charcters at DHS. I think it will be the same for Marvel projects they are developing for cable. Just makes sense.

Well, yeah. I know you think that. You've been singing that song since the Marvel purchase in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

I'm sure Disney would like to stick Marvel meet and greets in their parks. I heard they even did some character tests just in case. But if they could do them under the current terms of the contract, you can bet they would have been there for the premiere of The Avengers.

Right now, Disney can't even run their Avenger-rail through a theme park. Something has to change before meet and greets will be allowed. And that something will almost certainly cost Disney a lot of money. Money that would be better spent on new attractions that don't include a big payout to Universal.

I did think Universal would convert the Marvel attractions at IoA. I was stunned (happily so, I love the irony) they have chosen to carry on with the Marvel brand.

I do agree with you now though, with the amazing success of The Avengers, nobody is about to give up ANY rights to ANY comic based characters for the forseeable future.

The Avengers has changed the game permanently.

Yes and no.

The Avengers was a game changer. But realistically, no one was giving up those rights anyway.

All of these liscensees negotiated deals with Marvel when Marvel was strapped for cash. They got deals they would never get from Disney. They would have to be crazy to give up those kinds of deals.

 

[lebeau]

lebeu since you're the expert, why don't you tell us exactly what the contract says. No, don't show me a link to the SEC filing, I want to know exactly what the real contract says. Since you say it has no end, show me that word for word. I find it interesting since the media hasn't had access to the actual contract, that you would know all the details.

Why don't you want to see a link to the SEC filing?

Do you seriously think the contract expires?

Are you seriously asking me to explain this to you? :hammer:

 

[lebeau]

Anyone else notice how Uni Orlando is doing virtually no advertising right now? Seeing as how they usually plaster the airwaves, especially here in Tampa, you'd think they'd be trying to take advantage of The Avengers success.

This may just be wishful thinking, but I believe this may be an insight into Uni's long-term strategy and I don't think the Marvel characters are part of it.

A lot could also be inferred by the lack of plans for The Transformers Ride coming to Orlando. A Transformers overlay would be a perfect fit to replace Superhero Island and I don't think it's a stretch to think the Transformers could be the eventual replacement for Marvel.

As I've said before, I don't think the Transformers Ride would be cloned to take over Spider-Man – I believe they would simply re-do the movie and set pieces for The Transformers and leave the ride basically the same (the same way they converted Back To The Future to The Simpsons). 4d rides are perfect for these types of transitions.

I don't see it happening in the near future, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it around the time TF4 comes out or as the next "big thing" for Uni after Potter is completed.

Up here, we see a lot of Uni ads. Same as we usually do this time of year. Harry Potter is the star. But Spider-man is the second-most featured character in the ads.

I agree that this is wishful thinking.

 

[GLaDOS]

Anyone else notice how Uni Orlando is doing virtually no advertising right now?

I dunno what channels you're watching, but I see at least 5 Universal orlando commercials in the hour I'm at the gym. All of which include Spider-man.

 

[jt04]

Well, yeah. I know you think that. You've been singing that song since the Marvel purchase in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

I'm sure Disney would like to stick Marvel meet and greets in their parks. I heard they even did some character tests just in case. But if they could do them under the current terms of the contract, you can bet they would have been there for the premiere of The Avengers.

Right now, Disney can't even run their Avenger-rail through a theme park. Something has to change before meet and greets will be allowed. And that something will almost certainly cost Disney a lot of money. Money that would be better spent on new attractions that don't include a big payout to Universal.

:brick:

You are killing me.

Obviously they can't put Avenger characters in the parks at WDW (although I would note they can put them at DL and have also choosen not to) because they are featured at IOA.

HOWEVER, many of us believe they will use Marvel characters that are NOT featured at IoA. Especially if the contract clearlt states they can. Disney has already stated they will be developing new characters through Marvel. Obviously these are unaffected by the contract.

Interesting that someone noted above that Universal is not exploiting the success of The Avengers to hype Super Hero Island. Very interesting indeed.:lookaroun