News New Haunted Mansion Grounds Expansion, Retail Shop Coming to Disneyland Resort in 2024

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Here’s the last bit of what’s confusing me about the concept art. If the blue is the railroad tracks, the red is the front left corner of the Mansion and the purple is the new trellis where the big planter next to the porch is now where are the current switchbacks in this picture?

B4AC2F0E-9925-4091-8C97-602F1EE2F0A8.jpeg
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Oh, thank God. 🤣

Since 6:00pm I've been sipping some Gnarly Head Chardonnay, a humble weeknight wine for hot weather.

With all that I've done for the gang here on this exciting Haunted Mansion upgrade topic, may I finish off the bottle now and consider it a job well done? :cool:

Lol yes, but one more thing…
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Here’s the last bit of what’s confusing me about the concept art. If the blue is the railroad tracks, the red is the front left corner of the Mansion and the purple is the new trellis where the big planter next to the porch is now where are the current switchbacks in this picture?

View attachment 739934

Ignore the artistic liberties of the oddly placed Mansion balcony. Follow the red line as if you are in line for Haunted Mansion.

On very busy days (way too often now), they'll set up extended lines in the Magnolia Park area. But with this remodel, they can send the extended lines into this confined "garden" area that takes up some of existing Magnolia Park and some of the existing Fastpass Distribution area.

On less busy days, or via Lightning Lane, you walk in through the normal Haunted Mansion entrance gate. Standby folks get shunted into the newly shaded switchbacks to the south of the Mansion, where they've always been. Wheelchair folks exiting the ride go up through the new exit elevator that lets them out right next to the Disneyland Railroad tracks, where the abandoned Fastpass Distribution area is now.

mickeblu Owes Me A Drink.jpg
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Ignore the artistic liberties of the oddly placed Mansion balcony. Follow the red line as if you are in line for Haunted Mansion.

On very busy days (way too often now), they'll set up extended lines in the Magnolia Park area. But with this remodel, they can send the extended lines into this confined "garden" area that takes up some of existing Magnolia Park and some of the existing Fastpass Distribution area.

On less busy days, or via Lightning Lane, you walk in through the normal Haunted Mansion entrance gate. Standby folks get shunted into the newly shaded switchbacks to the south of the Mansion, where they've always been. Wheelchair folks exiting the ride go up through the new exit elevator that lets them out right next to the Disneyland Railroad tracks, where the abandoned Fastpass Distribution area is now.

View attachment 739936

The artist really took some artistic liberty with that Mansion placement. It looks like those switchbacks you drew are literally butted up against and on the Mansions side porch.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
The artist really took some artistic liberty with that Mansion placement. It looks like those switchbacks you drew are literally butted up against and under the Mansions side porch.

To be fair, those switchbacks really are.

It's just the new trellises they wanted to highlight in the concept art make it look all out of scale.

Switchback Hell.jpg
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
To be fair, those switchbacks really are.

It's just the new trellises they wanted to highlight in the concept art make it look all out of scale.

View attachment 739937

The art/ Mansion placement makes it look like the switchbacks are here (In red below)instead of where they really are further south. It makes it look like the entirety of the switchbacks are east of the Mansion on the lawn and planter that’s being partially absorbed. Basically the front left corner of the HM should not be in this concept art at from the vantage point illustrated.

F7019E2E-42C2-437E-874A-610048192079.jpeg




It makes it look like they re where the purple below is when really they should be where they yellow lines are based on the location of the left front corner of the HM in the concept art.

4A4C984B-D1AB-43A4-BF01-55BFCE754C27.jpeg
 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
The art/ Mansion placement makes it look like the switchbacks are here (In red below)instead of where they really are further south. It makes it look like the entirety of the switchbacks are east of the Mansion on the lawn and planter that’s being partially absorbed.

View attachment 739938

I get what you're saying now. You're right, the artistic liberties they took with the angle up high make the first floor seem like the second floor. Or vice versa.

It's a mess. But the trellises should cover the same 1969 switchbacks that have always been there, uncovered. Until a few years ago when they started throwing patio umbrellas out there.

But only because they had added Fastpass and then Lightning Lane to this 1969 ride, which slowed the previously fast moving line down to a crawl for those not wise enough, or rich enough, to use Fastpass or Lightning Lane.

Or for those of us who aren't TDA and Burbank executives who get free Lightning Lane and/or VIP Tour Guides added to their comped itineraries on the rare occasion they go into their own parks as a "guest". ;)
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Isn't Mansion one of those attractions that rarely had a long queue until the introduction of Fastpass messed things up and created a lot of entry space? Similar to Indy where everyone waits outside now and the interior caves are largely empty.

Is this just a solution to a problem Disney created?
yes and no. Pirates is a good example of a similarly popular, high-capacity attraction without genie+. That line can get very long and extend along the planters and switchback over the bridge.
And this will put an end to CMs harassing guests to invade each other's personal space?
that will never happen! Haha. Now fill in all of that available space!!!!
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
I get what you're saying now. You're right, the artistic liberties they took with the angle up high make the first floor seem like the second floor. Or vice versa.

It's a mess. But the trellises should cover the same 1969 switchbacks that have always been there, uncovered. Until a few years ago when they started throwing patio umbrellas out there.

But only because they had added Fastpass and then Lightning Lane to this 1969 ride, which slowed the previously fast moving line down to a crawl for those not wise enough, or rich enough, to use Fastpass or Lightning Lane.

Or for those of us who aren't TDA and Burbank executives who get free Lightning Lane and/or VIP Tour Guides added to their comped itineraries on the rare occasion they go into their own parks as a "guest". ;)

I edited to add this but too late after you responded:

It makes it look like they re where the purple below is when really they should be where they yellow lines are based on the location of the left front corner of the HM (red) in the concept art.


FA1EECB7-E6F2-427F-961B-B5260F243420.jpeg


For the record I think the trellises are great and this project is mostly win for HM proper. Not thrilled about the changes to Magnolia Park. It will never be a quiet place to relax again. It served as a really nice transition and buffer between the Haunted Mansion and the rest of NOS. A kind of understated, “quiet” and almost beautifully eerie space under the trees setting the tone for HM. It’s one of those areas that put the park in Disneyland PARK. Now they have the jazz music and dancing on the doorsteps of the Mansion. Granted, it wasn’t that far away at French Market but a lot of these things that work are so subtle. At Disneyland it’s a game of inches sometimes.
 

ParkPeeker

Well-Known Member
I get what you're saying now. You're right, the artistic liberties they took with the angle up high make the first floor seem like the second floor. Or vice versa.

It's a mess. But the trellises should cover the same 1969 switchbacks that have always been there, uncovered. Until a few years ago when they started throwing patio umbrellas out there.

But only because they had added Fastpass and then Lightning Lane to this 1969 ride, which slowed the previously fast moving line down to a crawl for those not wise enough, or rich enough, to use Fastpass or Lightning Lane.

Or for those of us who aren't TDA and Burbank executives who get free Lightning Lane and/or VIP Tour Guides added to their comped itineraries on the rare occasion they go into their own parks as a "guest". ;)
Wait now i think I get what you’re saying or what they sort of went for? That was supposed to be the balcony area and maybe to highlight the trellis they bumped it up to the top when it shouldn’t have been?

I did an edit too.. maybe this would’ve been a bit easier to read? Trellis is covered now but I brought it out more
IMG_3842.png


Before after
IMG_3841.gif

The position in the art does make a little more sense to me now, imagining what they might have been doing
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
If I'm reading this correctly, and remembering how we came up those "backstage" stairs from the loading area during the breakdown, this is where the elevator for folks in wheelchairs will be. The new ADA Elevator exit.

On this messy overlaid schematic, I put the exit route someone in a wheelchair would take from the loading area out to the elevator lift that sits under the new greenhouse. You can see the interior backstage hallways already there underground in this schematic, and that's exactly how I remembered them when we were exited out during the breakdown. And right where we came out at where the greenhouse is shown.

I also added the location of the new gift shop on the opposite side of the Mansion, where the old Splash Mountain Fastpass area is now. Does this help? Or just confuse us more? 🤣



View attachment 739884
I suspect the whole goal of the new ADA exit elevator is to have the ADA unloading in the same place as regular guest unloading, this to prevent slowdown as much as possible. So where you have this ADA exit would put ADA unloading in the same place as loading which accomplishes nothing. Plus it would also completely bypass the new gift shop. So doesn't make sense to put it there.

What I suspect the green canopy area will be is the new LL entrance.

The new ADA exit elevator, note they specifically call it an exit elevator, I suspect will be just to the right of existing exit escalator in that area labeled backstage. And it'll put the ADA guests right where the exit escalator drops off so they can also enter the new gift shop.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
I edited to add this but too late after you responded:

It makes it look like they re where the purple below is when really they should be where they yellow lines are based on the location of the left front corner of the HM (red) in the concept art.


View attachment 739942

For the record I think the trellises are great and this project is mostly win for HM proper. Not thrilled about the changes to Magnolia Park. It will never be a quiet place to relax again. It served as a really nice transition and buffer between the Haunted Mansion and the rest of NOS. A kind of understated, “quiet” and almost beautifully eerie space under the trees setting the tone for HM. It’s one of those areas that put the park in Disneyland PARK. Now they have the jazz music and dancing on the doorsteps of the Mansion. Granted, it wasn’t that far away at French Market but a lot of these things that work are so subtle. At Disneyland it’s a game of inches sometimes.

So wait do we think my speculation was right and they are eating into Magnolia, making the current band stand / stage open on both sides, and not really adding a gazebo?
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
So wait do we think my speculation was right and they are eating into Magnolia, making the current band stand / stage open on both sides, and not really adding a gazebo?

No I think they re eating a little bit into Magnolia Park on the Mansion side only but perhaps a little bit more than 6-8 feet like I said yesterday. Not sure how much. Maybe something like 12 -15 feet? I don’t remember the old FP machine area being very wide

I’m still confused on how you think Micechat could be right? Haha. There are tables all over Magnolia Park in the concept art. How could that be part of the extended Haunted Mansion queue? Am I missing something? I’m really trying to understand what you’re saying. The gazebo looks like it’s replacing the fountain.

On another note it looks like both of the area circled in yellow in the pics below are the same wall…


121D25CE-305F-4FDA-87D7-D3C3C103BFCF.jpeg


DD7EF7C6-E302-4AC9-8A35-24BFC3E3F8A5.jpeg


Perhaps you already knew this but that first piece of concept art (the extended queue) had me really disoriented yesterday.
 

JediMasterMatt

Well-Known Member
The only thing I would add is down in the loading area, for the ability to pull individual Doombuggies completely offline and allow folks in wheelchairs to take all the time they need to board and disembark, while the regular Omnimover just keeps moving along through the Show as it was intended to do. But that would obviously be a HUGE undertaking.
That would be quite an undertaking and would involve redoing the entire RV system. In essence, this is what the Kuka RV system on Potter does. It's basically a modern omnimover that instead of a contiguous string of connected RVs in a conga line it is an independent RVs (on a robot arm) system that follows a dedicated track. It is such an impressive platform (the RV system) and is an absolute capacity monster and has proven to be very reliable. Any RV can be pulled out of circulation for either ADA accommodation or maintenance purposes without impacting of the other RVs in motion. The saddest part of Disney losing (or with Tony's recent admissions - failure to commit) Potter to Universal was getting this system in house. Had they done so, they would have had a very versatile platform for SW or Marvel or any guest "pod" they want to put at the end of the arm. Instead, it went to Universal and Disney is struggling to come up with concepts that offer dynamic guest motion (thrills) and retain high capacity.
I suspect the whole goal of the new ADA exit elevator is to have the ADA unloading in the same place as regular guest unloading, this to prevent slowdown as much as possible. So where you have this ADA exit would put ADA unloading in the same place as loading which accomplishes nothing. Plus it would also completely bypass the new gift shop. So doesn't make sense to put it there.

What I suspect the green canopy area will be is the new LL entrance.

The new ADA exit elevator, note they specifically call it an exit elevator, I suspect will be just to the right of existing exit escalator in that area labeled backstage. And it'll put the ADA guests right where the exit escalator drops off so they can also enter the new gift shop.
While I didn't have any foreknowledge of this announcement and didn't see the news until this morning, I would be very surprised if ADA guests will have separate load and unload at DL's Mansion due to the geography. Load and unload on the original Mansion are at two different levels. Unload is higher than load. While there are internal backstage pathways to get around inside, there aren't (to my knowledge) any elevators - just stairs and ladders.

If they wanted to separate ADA load and unload it would require additional operational changes:

- forcing all guests to transfer into a "normal" wheelchair as taking an ECV or powered wheelchair down and leaving it at load would necessitate getting the same chair over to unload.
- the parked personal vehicles would then need to be reclaimed from the place they were parked (which is currently to the side of the hearse inside the queue if they are not taken down). This parking area is also elevated with only stairs back to the exit of the ride or you have to take the path (ramp) back down to the entrance to exit.
- if they are set at forcing all guests into an attraction transfer chair and then have them go though the stretching room and then exit platform at the end, then they would need to have some method of getting the chairs moved internally within the show building from load to unload. While it wouldn't have to be the exact same chair (they could have multiples and could "force" the guests to take all their personal items with them), they would still need some method of getting transfer chairs from load to unload. That means either back the same way they came in and then up and over and down to unload or build some internal ramp/elevator to convey them over. This would require more money (either automated or more staff) to accomplish this. For example, EPCOTs Test Track has an ADA elevator that allows the CM to move chairs from load to unload; but, that is a straight shot up and over the track. Mansion is spread apart with no way that I know of to easily get chairs around without some major rework internally.
- if they split ADA load and unload, it would require twice as many stops of the omnimover than it currently does. Right now, they load ADA guests into a set "range" of numbered Doom Buggies beginning at number 130. They then stop the ride to get them on and off when it comes back around.

So, with all things being equal, I think Troy is right on the money with this one. My wife is disabled, and I've gotten very familiar with all the ADA ways on and off all the attractions. One time during a DL Mansion break down (power loss), we had to evac just after load and some of the ops and maintenance team were talking about the challenges of load and unload on this ride. We were offered to exit out of the stretching room corridor and take the stairs if we needed to get out right away; but, she couldn't make it without the ECV. They talked about putting an elevator in that path at some point in the future and we even mentioned Autopia's "self service" mini-lift as an option. My educated guess is that ADA operations will be very similar to what they are now with the addition of any guests that need to take their "wheels" down will go back through the portrait corridor and then exit up that way. It's the only thing that adds operational/capacity value and doesn't require wholesale changes.

Regardless of the specifics, it is nice to see the classic attractions get plussed. Good work TDA... and I guess TDO too for finally putting Hattie in (even if it's in the wrong place in the ride).
 
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Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
No I think they re eating a little bit into Magnolia Park on the Mansion side only but perhaps a little bit more than 6-8 feet like I said yesterday. Not sure how much. Maybe something like 12 -15 feet? I don’t remember the old FP machine area being very wide

I’m still confused on how you think Micechat could be right? Haha. There are tables all over Magnolia Park in the concept art. How could that be part of the extended Haunted Mansion queue? Am I missing something? I’m really trying to understand what you’re saying. The gazebo looks like it’s replacing the fountain.

On another note it looks like both of the area circled in yellow in the pics below are the same wall…


View attachment 739986

View attachment 739987

Perhaps you already knew this but that first piece of concept art (the extended queue) had me really disoriented yesterday.

Yeah, I figured that was the same wall, which at least says to me we know that is the side facing and or butting up into Magnolia Park.

Now seeing as they already use Magnolia Park for extended queue, it would make sense when they say the grounds are expanding... to absorb some of that space into this new garden area. The question is, how much?

I am not trying to say anyone is right, or wrong, it may only be a tiny chunk, but @TP2000 was suggesting already that it sounds like that extended switchback into the park, around the fountain, is what is being absorbed, which makes me think Magnolia Park will be just the two trees / planters closest to the current bandstand (Tiana's Palace patio), and the rest now behind that wall, part of the HM grounds.


If we think about the current configuration, in this scenario I imagine the new HM wall boundary comes up to the two planters behind the current centre fountain, or maybe up to the fountain. The two front trees remain, with the planters significantly smaller around them, that front area is reworked, opening up the front of the current bandstand, and adding some patio tables dotted about.


Screen Shot 2023-08-30 at 11.35.51 AM.png


Screen Shot 2023-08-30 at 11.48.16 AM.png




It could also be they are removing the fountain, and putting a new bandstand in the centre, but I don't know if the existing unused FP area is enough space to allow for the loss of the extended queue they already get out of Magnolia Park?

Again this is just my speculation, based on the concept art, MiceChats thoughts, and me assuming Disney wouldn't build a new gazebo stage when they already have one.

Also, I am really just making things up as I go.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
That would be quite an undertaking and would involve redoing the entire RV system. In essence, this is what the Kuka RV system on Potter does. It's basically a modern omnimover that instead of a contiguous string of connected RVs in a conga line it is an independent RVs (on a robot arm) system that follows a dedicated track. It is such an impressive platform (the RV system) and is an absolute capacity monster and has proven to be very reliable. Any RV can be pulled out of circulation for either ADA accommodation or maintenance purposes without impacting of the other RVs in motion. The saddest part of Disney losing (or with Tony's recent admissions - failure to commit) Potter to Universal was getting this system in house. Had they done so, they would have had a very versatile platform for SW or Marvel or any guest "pod" they want to put at the end of the arm. Instead, it went to Universal and Disney is struggling to come up with concepts that offer dynamic guest motion (thrills) and retain high capacity.

While I didn't have any foreknowledge of this announcement and didn't see the news until this morning, I would be very surprised if ADA guests will have separate load and unload at DL's Mansion due to the geography. Load and unload on the original Mansion are at two different levels. Unload is higher than load. While there are internal backstage pathways to get around inside, there aren't (to my knowledge) any elevators - just stairs and ladders.

If they wanted to separate ADA load and unload it would require additional operational changes:

- forcing all guests to transfer into a "normal" wheelchair as taking an ECV or powered wheelchair down and leaving it at load would necessitate getting the same chair over to unload.
- the parked personal vehicles would then need to be reclaimed from the place they were parked (which is currently to the side of the hearse inside the queue if they are not taken down). This parking area is also elevated with only stairs back to the exit of the ride or you have to take the path (ramp) back down to the entrance to exit.
- if they are set at forcing all guests into an attraction transfer chair and then have them go though the stretching room and then exit platform at the end, then they would need to have some method of getting the chairs moved internally within the show building from load to unload. While it wouldn't have to be the exact same chair (they could have multiples and could "force" the guests to take all their personal items with them), they would still need some method of getting transfer chairs from load to unload. That means either back the same way they came in and then up and over and down to unload or build some internal ramp/elevator to convey them over. This would require more money (either automated or more staff) to accomplish this. For example, EPCOTs Test Track has an ADA elevator that allows the CM to move chairs from load to unload; but, that is a straight shot up and over the track. Mansion is spread apart with no way that I know of to easily get chairs around without some major rework internally.
- if they split ADA load and unload, it would require twice as many stops of the omnimover than it currently does. Right now, they load ADA guests into a set "range" of numbered Doom Buggies beginning at number 130. They then stop the ride to get them on and off when it comes back around.

So, with all things being equal, I think Troy is right on the money with this one. My wife is disabled, and I've gotten very familiar with all the ADA ways on and off all the attractions. One time during a DL Mansion break down (power loss), we had to evac just after load and some of the ops and maintenance team were talking about the challenges of load and unload on this ride. We were offered to exit out of the stretching room corridor and take the stairs if we needed to get out right away; but, she couldn't make it without the ECV. They talked about putting an elevator in that path at some point in the future and we even mentioned Autopia's "self service" mini-lift as an option. My educated guess is that ADA operations will be very similar to what they are now with the addition of any guests that need to take their "wheels" down will go back through the portrait corridor and then exit up that way. It's the only thing that adds operational/capacity value and doesn't require wholesale changes.

Regardless of the specifics, it is nice to see the classic attractions get plussed. Good work TDA... and I guess TDO too for finally putting Hattie in (even if it's in the wrong place in the ride).
My thoughts are that if they are going to the trouble of adding a new ADA exit elevator, which requires significant changes anyways; then they aren't going to care too much about making other operational changes to incorporate the same. And so it makes more sense to put it in the existing exit area so all guests exit in the same place, especially with the new gift shop being added. Otherwise you have all ADA parties bypassing the new gift shop and losing out on potential sales, and we know Disney isn't going to do that.

As for any operational changes, all it would really take is to add a Doom Buggy version of omnimover ADA vehicles they use at TLM. So if that is possible, and I don't think it would be that difficult if the track space allows it, then there isn't much operational changes that need to be made. So the only issue would be EVs but that can be handled with wheelchair transfer. And then have the guest pick up the EV in a similar area to the side like they do now.

The other thing is, if its really going the way TP say, then why do they need to even put something for it in the concept art. For that matter why shade an exit with a green canopy when no one would be waiting in the hot sun and just exiting. That is why that to me seems like the new LL entrance.

But I guess we'll see what they do. Maybe we're all wrong.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
Disregard how crude this is, I am not an editor...


Screen Shot 2023-08-30 at 11.48.16 AM.png


This is what I imagine they could be doing. No idea if they are. But essentially, two smaller planters nearest the patio, new boundaries for HM where old planters were, patio tables scattered about remaining walkways.
 

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