News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
So what would you posit to be the root cause on the chairlift in Georgia? I know we don't have the final report but to run backward at twice (or more) than forward speed is mind boggling. I know this will not happen on this install but it might be instructive for this discussion.
I thought I read that they already explained that. It was caused when a number of safety devices failed and since the ski lift only carried folks up hill when the brake failed the weight of the people on that side were pulled down by gravity and just built up speed as it did. It isn't hard to figure out why it went backwards at that speed, the question is why did all the safety equipment fail.
 

Flalex72

Well-Known Member
Yes, I am aware of that and that is why I said what I said. This video comes out and a number of people envision that happening to the Gondola's at WDW. My point was even without brakes (which it has) it isn't going to be influenced by an difference in weight between one side and the other. Gravity will not pull it to the bottom of the lift drive. I will just stop and then the auxiliary will kick in and bring everyone home safely. It cannot come down a mountain at that speed because there is no damn mountain.

I have a feeling either you or I misunderstood something - SLUSHIE mentioned the tensioning system and not the brakes, and then you replied stating "none of that stuff is necessary", I believe referring to the brakes. While it is true that the rollback scenario seen last week is virtually impossible and therefore brakes are not required to stop it, my point is that a tensioning system is required regardless.

So what would you posit to be the root cause on the chairlift in Georgia? I know we don't have the final report but to run backward at twice (or more) than forward speed is mind boggling. I know this will not happen on this install but it might be instructive for this discussion.

I thought I read that they already explained that. It was caused when a number of safety devices failed and since the ski lift only carried folks up hill when the brake failed the weight of the people on that side were pulled down by gravity and just built up speed as it did. It isn't hard to figure out why it went backwards at that speed, the question is why did all the safety equipment fail.

Failure of multiple safety systems that are designed to individually be failsafe seems to be the obvious cause, the real question of course being what lead to that situation. A fixed-grip lift like that likely has an additional safety feature in the form of an anti-rollback device. On the lifts I have run, this is a pivoting chunk of metal, like a ratchet, that drops down into the metal spokes of the bullwheel to stop reverse rotation. Rather than constantly ratcheting however, it is held up by electromagnet. There is an arm with a pad dragging on the rim of the bullwheel, and should the bullwheel being to spin backwards, the pad digs in, the arm gets jammed and trips a sensor, and the anti-rollback electromagnet releases the device which drops down into the bullwheel, limiting rollback to 3-4 feet at most. This system itself has multiple redundancies; being an electromagnet it drops down passively in a power failure. The chunk of metal is also located where two support beams of the overhead motor room meet, so if the pivot of the anti-rollback device fails under, the anti-rollback device will get jammed into the corner of these two beams. The system is also tested each day at startup, along with all the brakes and stop buttons.

Importantly, and as has been mentioned before but must be mentioned again, a rollback on a level gondola is not a concern. Even if there was a single heavily loaded gondola cabin on an ascending or descending portion of the line, and all other cabins were empty, that single cabin would not have the mass to overcome the friction of the entire system. Most gondolas are designed to run in reverse, for a number of reasons, and do not have an anti-rollback devices. Instead, the motor and braking systems are designed to maintain control of the lift in all of the circumstances.
 
Last edited:

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I have a feeling either you or I misunderstood something - SLUSHIE mentioned the tensioning system and not the brakes, and then you replied stating "none of that stuff is necessary, I believe referring to the brakes. While it is true that the rollback scenario seen last week is virtually impossible and therefore brakes are not required to stop it, my point is that a tensioning system is required regardless.





Failure of multiple safety systems that are designed to individually be failsafe seems to be the obvious cause, the real question of course being what lead to that situation. A fixed-grip lift like that likely has an additional safety feature in the form of an anti-rollback device. On the lifts I have run, this is a pivoting chunk of metal, like a ratchet, that drops down into the metal spokes of the bullwheel to stop reverse rotation. Rather than constantly ratcheting however, it is held up by electromagnet. There is an arm with a pad dragging on the rim of the bullwheel, and should the bullwheel being to spin backwards, the pad digs in, the arm gets jammed and trips a sensor, and the anti-rollback electromagnet releases the device which drops down into the bullwheel, limiting rollback to 3-4 feet at most. This system itself has multiple redundancies; being an electromagnet it drops down passively in a power failure. The chunk of metal is also located where two support beams of the overhead motor room meet, so if the pivot of the anti-rollback device fails under, the anti-rollback device will get jammed into the corner of these two beams. The system is also tested each day at startup, along with all the brakes and stop buttons.

Importantly, and as has been mentioned before but must be mentioned again, a rollback on a level gondola is not a concern. Even if there was a single heavily loaded gondola cabin on an ascending or descending portion of the line, and all other cabins were empty, that single cabin would not have the mass to overcome the friction of the entire system. Most gondolas are designed to run in reverse, for a number of reasons, and do not have an anti-rollback devices. Instead, the motor and braking systems are designed to maintain control of the lift in all of the circumstances.
What you are saying is true and they haven't issued, to my knowledge, the reason for the obvious multiple failures. So we don't really know what caused the failure, but, we do know and can assure anyone concerned that the same thing can happen at WDW that it cannot unless someone builds a huge mountain. The tensioners are of course needed, but, even that failure would probably not be catastrophic unless the Gondola's actually reached the ground.
 

Flalex72

Well-Known Member
What you are saying is true and they haven't issued, to my knowledge, the reason for the obvious multiple failures. So we don't really know what caused the failure, but, we do know and can assure anyone concerned that the same thing can happen at WDW that it cannot unless someone builds a huge mountain. The tensioners are of course needed, but, even that failure would probably not be catastrophic unless the Gondola's actually reached the ground.

Exactly. The tension system moves a fair distance, but total travel is a few feet overall. If the tension system lost pressure, cabins would not drop noticeably.

It should also be noted that Disney does have an actual, fixed-grip chairlift, on a "mountain", on property, at Blizzard Beach of course. I am unaware of any incidents related to lack of maintenance or any other mechanical failure on that lift. Nobody has freaked out about it breaking down and stranding people, wearing only swimwear, in the hot Florida sun.
 

SLUSHIE

Well-Known Member
It should also be noted that Disney does have an actual, fixed-grip chairlift, on a "mountain", on property, at Blizzard Beach of course. I am unaware of any incidents related to lack of maintenance or any other mechanical failure on that lift. Nobody has freaked out about it breaking down and stranding people, wearing only swimwear, in the hot Florida sun.

People are stranding themselves just by getting on the thing. It's the slowest and stupidest thing ever built.
 

rocketraccoon

Well-Known Member
The Hollywood Studios station as of today.

78.jpg
 

Disone

Well-Known Member
People are stranding themselves just by getting on the thing. It's the slowest and stupidest thing ever built.
Oh come now, how would you have a ski resort theme without a ski lift? It also is of great value for the ADA guests to get up the "mountain". Agreed it is not an efficient means to get to the water slides at all, but its a great piece of theme.
 
Last edited:

WDWtraveler

Well-Known Member
Photo update as of Tuesday, March 20, 2018. Additional photos in the Skyliner staging area next to the Hollywood Studios station. Here is the top of the cable tower, with two views of the lower part of the structure resting on the ground. In the foreground appears to be a concrete base for one of the cable towers.

IMG_0339.JPG


IMG_0346.JPG


IMG_0347.JPG


Several towers are also in the staging area.

IMG_0345.JPG


UPDATE: At the far end of the Hollywood Studios parking lot, construction continues on the bridge across the drainage ditch between the new entrance road and existing parking lot. One day last week the construction fence gate was open and these are concrete pilings for the bridge. Still not sure what is the purpose of the concrete base in the foreground.

IMG_0337.JPG
 
Last edited:

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Last edited:

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Photo update as of Tuesday, March 20, 2018. Additional photos in the Skyliner staging area next to the Hollywood Studios station. Here is the top of the cable tower, with two views of the lower part of the structure resting on the ground. In the foreground appears to be a concrete base for one of the cable towers.

View attachment 271237

View attachment 271238

View attachment 271239

Several towers are also in the staging area.

View attachment 271240

At the far end of the Hollywood Studios parking lot, construction continues on the structure that is a "turning point" between the gondola line over the parking lot and the line towards the Caribbean Beach Resort station. Beyond the green construction fence is a drainage ditch between the new Hollywood Studios entrance road and this structure. This "turning structure" is being built on the opposite side of the drainage ditch.

View attachment 271242
Very nice pictures - Thank you!
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom