News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[monothingie]

After nearly 700 pages (a huge chunk of which focus on no AC) I think it’s all been said already. Best to just wait and see how the experience is. Some here have decided already it will be a terrible experience, others a great one. The vast majority of riders will decide when they ride.

If they survive the experience...

 

[GoofGoof]

I think we will need seven years to properly assess the effects of leap years, El Niño, and La Niña.

Maybe even 79 years in case Halley’s comment has any impact on the operation.

Now you are just exaggerating....Haley’s Comet comes back in 44 years

 

[danlb_2000]

Operative word you used being "peak times." Just like the buses you will be waiting.

But even at peek times you probably won't wait as long as you would for a bus, and the worst peak times tends to be at the end of the day when sun isn't an issue.

 

[peter11435]

Yes but the option is available to the guests. To make the comparison and say that all are alike it mischaracterizes the situation.

The option isn’t available if the guests actually wish to board the bus. Not at the resorts and parks with queues for the buses.

 

[marni1971]

Just sayin’

 

[Goofyernmost]

I think we need to wait to see if that proves out. Similar systems in warm climates seem to work fine around the world. It may be the case that the anticipation of an unpleasant experience is way worse than the actual experience. I think most guests won’t be bothered because they won’t even know there is no AC until they board the gondolas and with the motion and moving air it won’t seem like an issue. Only a very small fraction of actual system users obsess over everything Disney like we do. There are some people here who have already decided it’s going to be too hot. When you go in looking for a problem you are sure to find one.

Sure but those other places are not whimpering, entitled "Mericans" Their Mommy's would not approve of this killing machine.

 

[MisterPenguin]

View attachment 327085View attachment 327086View attachment 327087

Just sayin’

What was the PCQ of "no A/C"?

 

[peter11435]

Operative word you used being "peak times." Just like the buses you will be waiting.

Even at peak times guests will wait on average less than they do for buses.

And the biggest flaw in the argument is time of day, because the longest waits between buses are often in the middle of the day when it is hottest and demand is at its lowest. During the same period guests will likely not wait at all to board a gondola where they may have had a 10 to 20 minute wait in the sun for a bus.

 

[monothingie]

But even at peek times you probably won't wait as long as you would for a bus, and the worst peak times tends to be at the end of the day when sun isn't an issue.

You're probably right about the gondola loading faster, but it's not going to be a walk on as some are speculating. You will be waiting to board.

 

[GoofGoof]

If they survive the experience...

Even better...if they don’t survive they can’t leave a bad review or complaint at customer service

Sure but those other places are not whimpering, entitled "Mericans" Their Mommy's would not approve of this killing machine.

Fair point. I think it’s more of an educational thing than entitlement. It’s just engrained in us to have AC everywhere, but if people try it and it’s not unpleasant they will realize it’s no big deal. It’s kinda like a kid trying new food...if you give it a chance you may actually find it’s better than you anticipated.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Agreed.

Although you will have less chance of getting stuck.

I see them as easier. Do we have any idea how they would ever get to a Monorail a few yards after it clears the Contemporary in route to MK. That thing is way higher then the Gondola's are going to go and they don't have the backup power that the gondolas are going to have. It is going to take something pretty extreme to strand the gondolas. Something like the cable breaking which won't be a problem because at that point they will all be at ground level.

 

[peter11435]

You're probably right about the gondola loading faster, but it's not going to be a walk on as some are speculating. You will be waiting to board.

But likely not in the middle of the day (when its hottest) when capacity will exceed demand.

 

[Goofyernmost]

There are real concerns that can’t be dismissed. People who have fears of heights or claustrophobia for example may have real anxiety when considering a ride. The average guest should be fine. If someone has a panic attack or severe anxiety the temperature may become more of an issue for them since sweating and rapid breathing are often part of the physical reaction. I think a lot of people that have these types of issues will look to stay somewhere else or just drive/rent a car to get around. If the temperature gets to the point where it’s severely impacting the average guest Disney will have to step in and figure out a solution. As long as the system is in motion I don’t see that being an issue. If for some reason some people get caught in an extended downtime and get uncomfortable I’m sure a few extra fast passes over in a galaxy far, far away will go a long way towards satisfying them

Why would they go on it if they have that fear. Don't they know that they have it. Those people that have those problems should be self governing and not get on one. Why is that so hard for people to understand. Again, if you don't want to ride on the Gondolas, don't get on them and don't stay at a Gondola resort. It is no different then people that have a fear of roller coasters, or can't ride Mission: Space. Not anything will ever be one size fits all. It shouldn't even be concern except for the individuals involved. If someone is going to have a panic attack the temperature will not really have any influence unless it is a phobia concerning heat and then what the hell are they doing in Florida in the summer?

 

[lazyboy97o]

You're probably right about the gondola loading faster, but it's not going to be a walk on as some are speculating. You will be waiting to board.

How long will it take a D-Line to clear 160 linear feet of queue?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Fair point. I think it’s more of an educational thing than entitlement. It’s just engrained in us to have AC everywhere, but if people try it and it’s not unpleasant they will realize it’s no big deal. It’s kinda like a kid trying new food...if you give it a chance you may actually find it’s better than you anticipated.

Sorry, but that is the definition of entitlement. Most of the world lives everyday of their lives without and AC and survive. We feel entitled to have it even though there is a slim to almost no chance of it being of any harm.

 

[flynnibus]

The easy answer to the bus "efficiency" issue is that the number of busses needed to match the throughput of the gondola would be absurd...think in the neighborhood of five or six busses loaded and dispatched every ten minutes. That number is assuming the gondola is UNDER the same capacity that other similar systems use.

Before you start saying..."well...hire more busses and drivers, so you can flex". You also need support systems to utilize them...this means, more standing lots for empty busses to wait/full bus unload, more bus load platforms (you aren't turning a bus around every 1.5-2 minutes...just not possible, or at the best extremely unlikely) and things like more traffic lanes/increased congestion to add in all those busses. Remember...its not just the five busses you see at the park, based on travel times, there are likely about 15-20 busses en route to their destination each way, so lets be conservative...30 busses total on the road, in addition to the ones waiting to load unload, so about 40 busses...per route...yep. Per Route. If you want to keep that efficiency level up for the hotels you serve, you would need this running for everything. So lets be conservative and say to service the hotels at the same lowest level theoretical of the gondolas, you would need about 80-90 busses. Im not even joking. If you say "nuh uh...they don't need those busses going both ways...". Yeah, you do. At park close, the bus would drop at the resort and likely need to make a return trip with NO guests...making it a dead trip and pure waste.

Now you are likely asking, "But Bender...the gondola is dumb, because it still takes time and isn't flexible. You can always tae those busses off the routes and move them around." Well...yes, but outside peak times, what do you do with your 80 extra busses and drivers? The advantage of the gondola is that the cost to operate it with one person on the system vs 2000 is exactly the same. It scales up to its maximum with no loss in efficiency. What you lose in route flexibility, you gain...big time, in scale and operational costs. If you need three Cast Members per Gondola station, you need three cast members.

Basically, the efficiency of the gondola has a definite limit, just like anything, but in order to match it, the bus system would need to be ludicrously efficient and insanely expensive.

There are other issues at play here, too...like having that many busses would actually cause overall efficiency to plummet (there is a reason for the number of monorails per beam...ay more and the whole system starts a cascade failure)..but that's for the next story. Im just assuming the bus is hyper efficient and the gondolas are running at their lowest standard operational efficiency.

I'm pretty sure I addressed all those items (flex, uniform operating costs, etc) in prior posts.. and you still didn't say what you are tracking for efficiency.. so you will continue to go in circles with people that are baited into replying. Listen, I'm not poo'ing the gondolas at all.. but if you want to stop talking past each other in posts and arguing - make them more clear so you and your counter part will actually be talking the same thing.

 

[Dole Whip Happy Hour]

Sorry, but I haven't read the almost 700 pages here, but did they say anywhere there would be any audio in the gondolas? music or the audio of the now arriving where ever speech..it would almost be nice to have an app that might be able to work with the gps on the phone...

 

[flynnibus]

You'd think, but if that is the case then where are those "redundancies" on the monorail?

The gondolas don't have a 600V rail running the whole line... so there is no power shutdown to the WHOLE system to avoid risks with the rail. The gondolas need far more traditional power... hence they can be augmented with backup generators nearby the FIXED location... again things that don't apply to the monorail.

The two systems are very very different, hence why one can easily have power backup, while the other has very different reasons.. not just power failure.. on why the power may be off.

 

[GoofGoof]

Sorry, but that is the definition of entitlement. Most of the world lives everyday of their lives without and AC and survive. We feel entitled to have it even though there is a slim to almost no chance of it being of any harm.

We are talking about a vacation to WDW so comparing this to what people in other countries do to survive is really apples to oranges. There’s also a big difference between a 5 minute gondola ride and a hotel room overnight or an hour or 2 in a restaurant. AC is most definitely needed in FL most of the year for comfort. You could absolutely survive without it, but this isn’t a life or death situation it’s about enjoying your vacation and feeling comfortable. I don’t think it will likely be too uncomfortable on the gondolas for 5 minutes without AC, but a lot of guests will need to experience that for themselves to believe it since they have experienced the buses and their cold blasted AC. I don’t hear a whole lot of complaints about the boats without AC. People have tried them and realized the motion keeps them cool enough for a short trip.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't believe in boldness for the sake of boldness, or innovation for the sake of innovation.

Then you'd likely have been kicked out of the group that came up with WDW and saw it through it's first 20 years. The bold and innovative was in the freaking DNA of the property... and why the EPCOT codes were so much more than just what was required by convention at the time. The property was developed with the idea of being a showcase for how things COULD and SHOULD be done - not just 'get by'. And is part of the reason Disney wasn't just run of the mill.

We all get excited by innovation, but the Spruce Goose was terribly innovative too.

Well, when you make enough profit.. you can afford some misses. And that's why you shouldn't necessarily be a bargin margin business. But TWDC can't figure out how to manage expenses anymore, nor treat their golden goose with it's spoils.

Sometimes the best solution, the most futuristic solution, is to go with something that works

Sometimes... sure. But what do you call the trend where you do little to nothing bold?

Sometimes the safety best is the basic one for sure... that doesn't discount that it's still lacks boldness.

If you don't try, you'll never have the chance to succeed.