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New Fantasyland Aerial photo (Jan 24)
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
Mansion Butler
Active Member
Big queue doesn't necessarily mean they think long waits. It means they expect lots of people and/or want to be prepared for all incidences.
Again, using another omnimover as an example (Mansion) it frequently uses every inch of its designed queue and has people spilling out even when the wait is under 30 minutes. That's not a long wait (and we're talking busy days), it's just a lot of people, and a good reason to have a larger queue.
Mansion Butler
Active Member
can i mention this now... is WDW patrons less deserving than DL??!?!?
why dont WE, and i say we, cause im on the right cost, ok i refraise
why DONT WDW have a "blue sky cellar" in MK....
ok, you can argue that CAs expansion is way more than WDW's MK... none the less
it would be nice to walk into a building and see whats going on "behind" the walls
why dont WE, and i say we, cause im on the right cost, ok i refraise
why DONT WDW have a "blue sky cellar" in MK....
ok, you can argue that CAs expansion is way more than WDW's MK... none the less
it would be nice to walk into a building and see whats going on "behind" the walls
BigThunderMatt
Well-Known Member
TLM will inherently have a long wait, regardless of the ride system, because Line of Business and park management insist on it having Fastpass, even though DCA's version will not. It seems that many have forgotten the debacle that was FP at HM.
Nevermind the fact that they're using it on another Omnimover that doesn't need it (Buzz).
And this isn't the first time WDW's version of an attraction has Fastpass while DLR's does not. TSMM at DCA doesn't have FP and I never waited more than 45 minutes for it, even when it initially opened and the line stretched out onto the Pier most days. DL's Peter Pan also does not utilize Fastpass whereas MK's does, and MK's version even has vehicles that load in motion, DL's vehicles stop to load, and they never have as long of a wait as MK's Pan gets most days.
It all stems back to arbitrary statistics and theories that the upper echelons of management at WDW foolishly believe practically guarantee return visits, when in reality they would get so much more if they stopped focusing so much on efficiency and brought good show back to the forefront.
WDW isn't a hop, skip and jump from corporate HQ, nor does it have 1,000,000+ AP's that march in pitchforks sharpened and torches blazing, shouting their war cry of "What would Walt think?!" when they see a lightbulb burnt out.
Mansion Butler
Active Member
No, believe me. I remember it. :zipit:
djkidkaz
Well-Known Member
I always see CM's around here say that Disney is all about putting as many guests through a ride as possible per hour. So why do they let things like TSMM in the Studios get jammed up like it does? If throughput was their main concern, then they would get rid of fastpass for it or find another solution, neither of which seem to be happening.
NewfieFan
Well-Known Member
When I scale the plans in CAD, I'm getting the following lengths:
Little Mermaid
Track: ~660 ft
Standby Queue: ~1200'
Fastpass Queue: ~400'
Snow White Mine Train:
Track: ~2050 ft
Standby Queue: ~870'
Fastpass Queue: ~370'
These lengths are approximate, as the scale might be somewhat off. I triple-checked the scale using scaled aerials and Google Earth's ruler tool, but those are crude methods for doing that (though I know I'm close). Too bad the leaked blueprints didn't include a graphic scale.
Anyways, just for reference, Barnstormer's track length is 780' and BTMRR's track length is 2780'. So for Snow White, we're looking at something in between (which is what the insider's have been telling us for months).
Here's a diagram for what I was measuring. Light orange is standby, dark orange is fastpass, red is combined queues and load, purple is unload and exit.
Cool stuff!
Thanks for sharing! I'm excited regardless of track length, show time, wait, whether there's FP or not, etc.!
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
I would argue that Fastpass would work better at DCA for TSMM than it does at DHS. That doesn't make it any less necessary in DHS, it would just be more effective in California.
Ride system is irrelevant for Fastpass. What was happening at the Mansion was that the demand at the time didn't necessitate it - however I've seen a significant uptick in the ride's popularity post refurbishment. On busier days the Mansion (as well as other omnimovers) can certainly use Fastpass.
Mansion Butler
Active Member
I honestly don't believe FP would be any less of a mess for us today than it was when they realized it was a mess and relieved us of it.
Mansion Butler
Active Member
I'm not sure how FP stops them from putting through as many people on TSMM as possible. I don't work there and don't know anyone who does, but there's a steady stream of people past the merge point at all times, which isn't hard to do for a ride that stops so frequently to load.
I can't see any way, during regular operating hours, that FP would slow down their load times or cause them to send empty cars. That's the only thing that would slow down their throughput.
And if FP was slowing down their throughput (and I promise you it's not), it would be gone.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
If there are more "next gen" elements in the Mansion queue it may further eliminate the need for Fastpass. Personally I do my best to wait less than 30 minutes for every attraction. Normally The Haunted Mansion will fall under that category.
Now some of the Mansion cast members can probably agree or disagree with this, but it seems that the biggest problem here is after the stretch room. Any Fastpass merge point would have to be prior to the stretch rooms, and unlike Test Track it's a little harder to have enough of a backup after the Stretch Rooms so as not to diminish capacity.
I assume the issue is that the merge point for Haunted Mansion fastpass creates the actual bottleneck for guest flow, meaning that they can't cycle enough guests through because an extra step is put in place (the Fastpass merge point).
Am I far off?
Now some of the Mansion cast members can probably agree or disagree with this, but it seems that the biggest problem here is after the stretch room. Any Fastpass merge point would have to be prior to the stretch rooms, and unlike Test Track it's a little harder to have enough of a backup after the Stretch Rooms so as not to diminish capacity.
I assume the issue is that the merge point for Haunted Mansion fastpass creates the actual bottleneck for guest flow, meaning that they can't cycle enough guests through because an extra step is put in place (the Fastpass merge point).
Am I far off?
Mansion Butler
Active Member
That is exactly what the issue was when we had it. We have a hard enough time with the line the way it is filling the area between the turnstiles and the doors up enough so that the CM inside can have a prayer of filling the stretch rooms. Busy days we get it done, and our awesome capacity numbers and efficient wait times reflect that, but FP made it a nightmare. Controlling a merge point while you're trying to get 90 people to go inside every 2 1/2 minutes is pretty damn hard, and more trouble for all involved than its worth for a line that rarely goes over half an hour, and struggles to double that even on the busiest of days.
And I'll add that to this day I'm impressed that the leadership showed the ability to realize something wasn't working and un-do the addition.
BigThunderMatt
Well-Known Member
Clearly that Leadership is long gone. Was that when Dan Cockrell was GM of Operations? That would explain a lot.
SeaCastle
Well-Known Member
Cockerell took over in '94. That is the generally accepted time period that the tide started to take a turn for the worse, followed by late 2001.
BriEcho3194
Well-Known Member
How do they plan to hide the little mermaid building with the tents now there? Like I mean the area that faces Toontown fair now. Like a bunch of trees? Im just wondering lol
Mansion Butler
Active Member
I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong folks) it will be the same as the Haunted Mansion and Small World, where you board on the second story of the building, so they only have one story to mask. The Mansion does that with trees and a building, and iasw does that with a castle wall.
ob1thx1138
Member
I think the tents will do that job just fine. I don't think you can see the LM area from the tent area because the tents are in the way.